Wood Pellet Heating System

WicklowTiger

I have recently moved into a 3 bed semi. The house currently does not have central heating. We have decided that a wood pellet boiler is probably the way to go. We have been considering the Gerkros boiler. Because we do not have a suitable shed or boiler house, this one looks good as it offers the option of an external housing unit. My concerns at this point are:

1. Size. We do not have a huge amount of space, although there should be enough to install the boiler and the 300kg hopper. The rear garden is on a steep slope, so it will be difficult to include the larger hopper.

2. Noise. Is the woodpellet boiler noisy - a friend has mentioned that someone reffered to a possible noise problem.

Has anyone installed the external housing unit on such a boiler - is there anything else to look out for?

Also, does anyone know if it is necessary to incorporate a long flue where the boiler is installed outside? I believe the flue can get quite expensive.

Thanks.

GerryM

I'm thinking about the same thing myself and in hunting around for info I came across this blog - full of advice for the unwary when it comes to pellet burners etc.

http://wood-pellet-ireland.blogspot.com/

Gerry

WicklowTiger

GerryM wrote:

I'm thinking about the same thing myself and in hunting around for info I came across this blog - full of advice for the unwary when it comes to pellet burners etc.

http://wood-pellet-ireland.blogspot.com/

Gerry

I spoke to an installer from the SEI list who came out to look at what I need to do. I wasn't sure whether to go ahead with the wood pellet option or to connect to gas - the Bord Gais line runs past my door. No problem, the installer quoted me for a gas system, said to make my mind up in my own time and if I decide to go wood pellet, deduct the cost of the gas boiler from the quote. I then simply source the boiler wherever I want (obviously check with him that he is happy with the make/model, etc) and get the best deal I want.

I am now more or less decided on wood pellet - I am looking at the 30KW Gerkros Woodpecker which I can get for €5000 incl. VAT. For an extra €1550 I can get a galvanised casing which allows for the boiler to be installed outside. Since I don't have a boiler house, this is ideal for me. There is also the advantage that the galvanised casing unit has an integrated flue and chimney, which I am told can get expensive.

For the time being, I am going to go with bagged fuel - I know this is more expensive, but is still cheaper I reckon than gas, and the outdoor hopper for bulk storage is quite expensive at the moment (price starts at c.€2,000 but if you want all the automatic feeders, etc. it quickly reaches €3,700, which would take 8-10 years at today's prices to pay for itself).

boomshackala

Don't want to spoil your party, but you are wasting money now...on kit you will have to change out if/when you automate
Also you are buying a low efficiency entry level boiler with little modulation.
Gerkros are working on improving their specs.
Finally you will quickly get tired of loading manually all the time...Who is goning to do it when you're not there..

Samos

Is there a comprehensive list out there of all wood pellet boiler suppliers and their prices? I'm hearing of many rip-offs, even with the SEI grant.

WicklowTiger

Samos wrote:

Is there a comprehensive list out there of all wood pellet boiler suppliers and their prices? I'm hearing of many rip-offs, even with the SEI grant.

The SEI website has a full list of each product that has been approved for the grant. Beneath each product is a list of suppliers for that product. There is also a list of approved installers.

boomshackala

Or else post the pricing you got of something you're interested in and we'll do a critique of it.

aislingw

We really want to make a decision on a boiler in the next few days. Have been looking at them for the last 2 years and it's getting a bit ridiculous, I mean in fairness it's just a boiler!!! But we just seem to be going round in circles. Have been looking at the Baxi Multiheat which can burn grain as well as pellets, or the Opop Scotte. Has anyone anywhere actually installed any of these? It seems to be very difficult to find anyone who has any first hand experience, apart from the sellers, obviously.

The Baxi has just 2-step modulation, and seems basically to have to be on all the time - it goes into pause mode, just ticking over, when not needed - is this going to waste a lot of fuel - some people say it's actually good as you never have to heat the house from scratch... Or is the 100-step modulation - or whatever it's called - really the way to go?

Thanks!

Pocari Sweat

The Gerkros range will reach a higher critical mass of production over the next 5 years when improvements coupled with increased volumes in sales will result in price drops.

The improvements needed are things like better screw feed unit and modulation.

Inherent pit falls with this type of unit are; requirement to empty ash every three weeks, system operates better when left on over continuous periods from say october to april, requires major space to get the low cost benefits of bulk pellet deliveries, requiring higher budget for additional equipment, when unbagged the moisture content of the pellets raises in atmospheric humidity in the smaller hoppers and with smaller volumes the cost is only comparable to oil at same thermal costs.

To do the job right you are best waiting for the design improvements to come along, the price to drop to get all the extras, if an outdoor casing is required, get a stainless steel company to make up a bespoke enclosure - it will still be cheaper than their rip off galvanised box and s/s will last for life and look better.

A new production facility for wood pellets is just being built in Tuam County Galway and will probably offer better prices and higher availabilty of the fuel when it comes on line.

FlutterinBantam

Any idea what the biomass energy output is for one metric tonne of wood fuel(bone dry), is compared to other energy sources such as oil of gas?

Im contemplating an investment in a Gekros

Pocari Sweat

You have to watch out for moisture ingress especially, or a big loss of efficiency will take hold, known as creeping death of the wood pellets, which renders them useless and you may as well burn oil all day long instead.

If you avoid the creeping death of the pellets, and buy in bulk using the large hopper system that is sealed against moisture, your running costs will effectively halve against oil.

Savings typically of 500 to 1,000 euros a year will mean a fairly fast pay back of the system combined with the 4,200 euro grant.

Samos

Thanks for the help guys. I'm just looking at the options for the ol' folks. They're fairly technophobic, so I have to guide them as best I can against the major pitfalls. The information on the SEI website seems fairly comprehensive.

SeanW

Slightly OT, but I'm curious if can you use wood pellets for domestic power generation?

Out here we don't get much sun, it's usually cloudy, and the wind we get is about equivalent to a spider's fart.

Pocari Sweat

Big power stations and new types, where CO2 is produced is a bit of an issue. The largest coal station in the UK - Drax, which supplies 7% of the UK's electric, has been decended upon by a load of greens, protesting in the last 5 days, because it is big and smelly and they want it closed down.

I woke up after a heavy night in the pub with a girl like that once too, but there were no swarms of protestors on that occasion.

Drax, (not the big lass) has the equivalent energy output of 4 nukes, or 4,000 turbines, or 4,000,000 solar panels.

As for a super pellet station, ah feck it why not, have a go, see if its feasible.

ircoha

might be too late for this post but look at www.energycabin.com

flocker

FlutterinBantam
This link show the gross calorific values (GCV) of most popular fuels. There may be other table comparisions out there.

GCV Table of fuels

Rathlynin

I have commisioned at Cosyman Woodpecker lately....They are no noisier than an oil boiler..The flue that comes with the Cosyman is adequate so no need for a longer flue.....

Builderwoman!

Hi

We are using 50kw Gerkros Woodpecker and very happy with it. We have 4800sq feet and it's using very little pellets. Only emptied ash pan once in two months...now that wouldn't kill anyone! Wicklow tiger would recommend you get their storage silo with the agur...works out expensive but is dead handy. We were on bags for the first couple of weeks and was a bit of pain having to think about it as much as doing it. Not sure that I would agree with Pocari Sweat making it seem as easy as that to get a stainless steel version of silo made for outside, unless you are in the trade it will be expenisve to get a one off made from a very expensive material. Also you will still need an agur or feed system into your boiler house. Other companies are modifiy animal feed silos for storage but are costing the same as Gerkros silo and would be much taller and more visable from your house. I think when you talk about cosyman Wicklow Tiger it's a cladded shed that Gerkros supply but you can buy it directly cheaper from Shannette sheds in Kilbeggan just call them and ask them about it and you can make a saving. This housing does not come with a flue. Not sure that Gerkros supply a flue our plumber did but that's not expensive. The only real way to save money is buy on wood pellets is do bulk storages. Bags are expenisve. BTW the boiler and augr are not noisy at all.

gonk

Builderwoman! wrote:

Wicklow tiger would recommend you get their storage silo with the agur...works out expensive but is dead handy.

Builderwoman, which silo did you get? Is it the "Villa Outdoor" on this page?

http://www.gerkros.ie/hoppers.htm

Thanks!

gonk

Rathlynin wrote:

I have commisioned at Cosyman Woodpecker lately....They are no noisier than an oil boiler..The flue that comes with the Cosyman is adequate so no need for a longer flue.....

Rathlynin, I'm considering installing a Cosyman Woodpecker as I don't have a suitable indoor location for a pellet boiler. One thing that worried me looking at the installation manual on the Gerkros website was this part about location:

"In order to avoid down draught, the chimney or flue must terminate in a position at least 1 metre (3.3 ft) higher than the highest point on a roof, tree or building within a distance of 9 metres (30 ft.)"

I had in mind a spot about 12 ft from the back of my house, which on the face of it would mean I'd need a flue taller than the house! Is this really as critical as the manual suggests?

ircoha

www.kedco.ie advertisising on rte tonite re pellets

gonk

ircoha wrote:

www.kedco.ie advertisising on rte tonite re pellets

They were also giving away a pellet boiler tonight as a prize on Matt Cooper's show on Today FM.

Dundalk Daily

The woodpecker unit that qualifies for the €4200 grant, how much is it to buty and get installed, roughly. Is the grant guaranteed if the installation is up to the spec of SEI.

MichaelAnTony

GerryM wrote:

I'm thinking about the same thing myself and in hunting around for info I came across this blog - full of advice for the unwary when it comes to pellet burners etc.

http://wood-pellet-ireland.blogspot.com/

Gerry

I have been looking at the idea of wood pellet heating recently but I am put off by the much higher prices being quoted in Ireland than in the UK Germany and other countries.

The site GerryM mentions above: http://wood-pellet-ireland.blogspot.com/ has given me much reason to re-think about installing wood pellet heating, especially since reading a recent post detailing spiralling wood pellet prices in the US because of poor supply. Ireland is not really geared to supply a boom market is it?

MichaelAnTony

ircoha wrote:

www.kedco.ie advertisising on rte tonite re pellets

I would bet a weeks wages that their boiler is an OPOP with a spray job and a re-badging. I wonder how their price compares with OPOP prices in other countries??

WicklowTiger

gonk wrote:

In order to avoid down draught, the chimney or flue must terminate in a position at least 1 metre (3.3 ft) higher than the highest point on a roof, tree or building within a distance of 9 metres (30 ft.)

gonk, did you ever get any further info on the 9 metres flue distance? I have the same problem as you identified.

Does anyone know if it is possible to connect the Villa Outdoor hopper to the system later on if the Cosyman casing is in use?

gonk

WicklowTiger wrote:

gonk, did you ever get any further info on the 9 metres flue distance? I have the same problem as you identified.

No, I phoned Gerkros, and they were a bit vague. The gist of their reply was that it would need a site inspection to decide. There is a dealer local to me in Westport, so I plan to go to them this week and see if I can get a Gerkros certified installer through them to call to my house and size up the location I have in mind.

When I have more info I'll post it here.

propellet

Have a look at other wood pellet boilers. www.renewableheating.com Biotech. This is the most efficent wood pellet boiler on the market. Be carefull in what you buy. Ireland has become the european dump for old renewable heating systems. These systems are no longer being installed in other european countries so they are being bought cheap and sold dear in Ireland. If I was looking for a heating system in my home I would look for a plumber. Look out for all the overnight plumbers who have come in to the renewable market. If there was no grants available in the morning most of these people would jump on the next bandwagon that was giving out a grant and they would become a experts in something else. Don't be afraid to ask question about their plumbing background. Cheap is not always best.

gonk

propellet wrote:

Have a look at other wood pellet boilers. www.renewableheating.com This is the most efficent wood pellet boiler on the market.

Had a look, but there is no information that I can find on what makes or models of pellet boiler are available from this firm. Are you connected with them?

propellet

Have a look at the Biotech web site. The boilers range from 2kw-40kw

King sound

Howdy. I recently had a Viadrus wood pellet boiler installed and her are some of the problems I encountered. Wood pellets are in short supply and some places have a waiting list of up to 7 weeks for them. Most places at the moment are only selling them in bags. The Flue is expensive up to 1 thousand. There have been building regulatioins in place since 1992 governing the placement of flues and such. Until now there was no way to police these regulations, however with the grants in place they now have it as a requirement to have the flue at the correct height when they are commisioning the boiler. Not high enough, no grant. depending on the location of the flue, 1 mtre over roof height afaIk. I hope this is of some assistance.

colum1

Well we all have been looking a wood chip burners because the green party seem to think it is better for use to use over oil and have desided to add a carben charge to the cost of oil. I can see were they are coming from with that by makeing it more expencive to heat your home the older and sick will die of quicker and be less of a cost to the state in this time of need. It is a rip off when it comes to even look at the cost of buying a pellet heating system becaust it will take around 10 years to pay for itself and have a big outlay to buy around €12000 for supplie and fit and you need to spend this amount because you have to have the hopper or you will not get the grant to help pay for it. So thank you GREENS for reducing the cost to the healthboard and to the penctions great job.

Macha

colum 1, please reserve your political rants for the Politics Forum.