Hand from Vegas Nights Monthly €50 + €50

Marq

75 minutes in. The blinds are 75-150.
The rebuy is worth 4,500 chips, but the top-up is worth 5,500 chips. The top up is 75 minutes away.

I am down to 1625 from my intial 3500 stack. While I haven't shown down any hands, I have told the table that I had jacks when I had raised pre-flop and the board came Q-Q-T. I had bet the flop, checked the turn and called a river bet, losing to king-queen (I actually did have jacks - but there's no reason for the table to believe me as I have shown down nothing else).

the small blind is very tight pre-flop, and the big blind (1550 chips) has been loose but capable of folding marginal hands pre-flop. I'm on the button with K7 of clubs.

the cut-off limps. He is a serial limper who has limped and folded to a raise four times in the first hour.

I raise to 500. (comments?)

The SB folds, and the BB goes into the tank for just under a minute. Someone at the table says "It's one of those raise or fold situations" and the BB agrees, and then goes all-in. The serial limper folds. I don't believe that the BB has a pocket pair or AK (or even AQ). I put his range at AJ-A2 and KQ-KT with the outside chance that he has a low to medium pocket pair.

There is 2275 in the pot, it is 1050 to call.

Hero?

I am interested as to whether anyone thinks that the difference in chips between the rebuy and the top-up whould influence the decision.

Daithio

I think it's an auto call. The extra 1000 chips in 75 mins won't be worth as much as having 4.5k to take on people gambling during the rebuy period. That's when the easy chips are generally on offer, and you want to be able to take full advantage of this. Also the extra 1000 will be negligible considering the blinds and average chip stack will be bigger in 75 mins. Auto call for me.

Marq

Daithio wrote:

The extra 1000 chips in 75 mins won't be worth as much as having 4.5k to take on people gambling during the rebuy period. That's when the easy chips are generally on offer, and you want to be able to take full advantage of this. Also the extra 1000 will be negligible considering the blinds and average chip stack will be bigger in 75 mins. Auto call for me.

I think these are both very good points.

I'll only have 3325 if I call and win. But I do agree that it's an auto-call.
What about the initial button raise?

bohsman

Marq wrote:

What about the initial button raise?

Standard.

Daithio

I think the initial raise is fine, you need to be gambling with that 1500 fast to either build it up so you have a stack to play with during the rebuy period, or lose it so you can rebuy and then have a stack. Maybe a push is better? I don't know. Essentially there's 375 free chips on offer, and it would be criminal not to try and take them down somehow. I think with the button and a serial limper it's an auto raise, just how much you raise to is the question. Actually now that I've thought about it I think a push is the better play. If somebody flat calls and bets out at a flop that you've missed you're going to have to fold being left with only 1000 chips. In a way position is bad with such a small stack, you want to be able to push any flop. So yeah, push all in preflop, if everyone folds you win 375, if they call you're not too fussed.

fobster

What was your reason for the 500 pre-flop raise with K7 suited, I'm thinking you obviously expected to take it down pre-flop but that didn't happen and why would it be an auto-call to his all-in, do you really expect that K7 suited was ahead even if the player is loose as you say?

I just want understand the reasons behind your play, that is all.

Hitman Actual

Raise preflop is fine (I assume you're trying to get heads-up with the serial limper with position on him, or hoping to take it down straight away?). Getting ~2/1 on your money, it's a marginal call going on the range you have villain on (need to check this properly, but I'd say K7s is around 35% here).

shady_dice

Are you in a position you dont need to be here?

If you're going to try take it down here (I'm guessing you dont want a call with K7) then why not go all in and put him to a decision rather than the other way around, letting him make you call. Now that you have met resistance I think you have to call but I don't like the way you played the hand

Daithio

fobster wrote:

What was your reason for the 500 pre-flop raise with K7 suited, I'm thinking you obviously expected to take it down pre-flop but that didn't happen and why would it be an auto-call to his all-in, do you really expect that K7 suited was ahead even if the player is loose as you say?

I just want understand the reasons behind your play, that is all.

The main reason for the raise with K7 is that there are free chips on offer. As you said, you'd really be wanting to take this pot down preflop. That's the best possible outcome, but, once the big blind pushes it becomes an autocall for two reasons, mainly because 1) you're getting such great odds, better than two to one, and 2) because it's a rebuy tournament and 'tournament survival' doesn't come into the equation. Although if you were so short stacked in a freezeout tournament it would be an autocall too. Once you've committed that many chips to the pot and you don't have many left to play with you pretty much have to call with any two in that situation.

RoundTower

shady_dice wrote:

Are you in a position you dont need to be here?

If you're going to try take it down here (I'm guessing you dont want a call with K7) then why not go all in and put him to a decision rather than the other way around, letting him make you call. Now that you have met resistance I think you have to call but I don't like the way you played the hand

This is a good point, since you are committed against any raise you might as well go all in the first time. The only reasons not to do this are a) if you think the smaller raise looks stronger or b) if there is an absolute rock behind you who will only reraise you with AA/KK, then you can get away from the hand in that case.

Marq

Fobster, I didn't expect to be ahead with K7 but that doesn't matter. The reason it's an auto-call when the BB re-raises all-in is because against the range of hands that I put my opponent on, I have a 35-40% chance of winning the pot. The pot is giving me better than 2:1 odds, and I am not a 2:1 underdog, therefore I must call.

I think posters that have said I should push pre-flop are most likely right. As I am going to be getting good odds if anyone raises over the top of me, it isn't often that I'll fold to a push, so if my primary objective is to win the blinds and limps then a push will acheive that more often than a 500 raise will.

However, there is an argument for raising less than all-in. the SB is quite tight, and will both call an all-in and raise all in with only 4 or 5 hands (JJ,QQ,KK,AA,AKs, with the last three of these being much more likely, and perhaps AQs, TT and AKo if he has a rush of blood to the head). I am a big dog to his range, and if he comes over the top I can let the hand go knowing that I am so far behind that the pot odds don't justify a call. I will have tried to take the pot and met with large enough resistance to fold, but will have kept 1100 chips that I otherwise would have got in on a bad bet.

Having said that, the number of times that the SB wakes up with one of these hands is quite low, so I could probably push all-in and just accept it if I run into something big. I don't like risking 1600 to win 375. but given the unlikelyhood of running into a hand that can call an all-in, I think it is the best move.

Marq

RoundTower wrote:

This is a good point, since you are committed against any raise you might as well go all in the first time. The only reasons not to do this are a) if you think the smaller raise looks stronger or b) if there is an absolute rock behind you who will only reraise you with AA/KK, then you can get away from the hand in that case.

lol. I was busy writing the above response which illustrated this last point while you posted.

For curiosity's sake, I can tell you that I called, and the BB turned over ATo and proceeded to get lucky enough not to be sucked out on by my turned flush draw.

RoundTower

rigged.

cardshark202

cold-decked.