Speeding Ticket Question

andrew1977

Hi Folks

I was stopped by the Gardai in a patrol car yesterday outside Cork City, they said i was over the limit doing 130km in a 120km zone, garda took my license details back to the Garda car,came back to me saying fixed penalty charge of 80 Euro and 2 penalty points will be coming to me in the post in the next week or so

My question is ..should the Garda have shown me actual proof of my speeding offence or have i just to accept it based on his word.? If the fine arrives in the post can i dispute it based on the fact unless they show me proof ,its my word against theirs.But then again if it goes to court the judge more than likely will favour the side of the law

Does anyone have any comments or opinions on the above, would appreciate it , looking back at it now,i should have asked the Garda for proof of my offence or when the fine comes it will have a image showing my offence

thanks for the help and advice

leeroybrown

To my knowledge they don't have to show you the speed reading. If it were to go to court the judge would always take their word over yours.

tabatha

i would of thought that they would have needed proof, this happened to me recently but they let me go. i was not over the limit and they knew it. pulled me over thinking i would be a young guy id say!

Wishbone Ash

If they recorded you speed using a radar gun AFAIK you are entitled to ask to see the Certificate of calibration of the gun. They are obliged to show it to you. If they are unable to do the offence is null and void. You have to ask at the time, not later on.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

If it was based on the reading from one of those hairdryer speed guns, they are a obliged to give you a printout from the gun.

Alun

But they wouldn't have been able to use a standard handheld speed gun from inside a moving patrol car would they?

As I see it if you're stopped on the move by a patrol car there are two possibilities, either a) they've got one of those fancy schmancy devices like you see on the UK series like "Traffic Cops" (which I seriously doubt) in which case they could show you the evidence on video, or b) they were just going on their own (uncalibrated) speedo in the patrol car. I don't think that would hold up in any other jurisdiction in the civilized world, but since here the Gardai are legally speaking infallible and are never wrong you'd have a hard job fighting it in court, I'd say.

GB15

andrew1977 wrote:

I was stopped by the Gardai in a patrol car yesterday outside Cork City, they said i was over the limit doing 130km in a 120km zone

Where in Cork is there a 120km limit? I thought the max anywhere was 100km even the Ballincollig bypass which should really have motorway status.

andrew1977

GB15 wrote:

Where in Cork is there a 120km limit? I thought the max anywhere was 100km even the Ballincollig bypass which should really have motorway status.

Hi,
I am not from Cork,just down working for a few days, the gardai stopped me about 10 minutes drive before the roundabout before the Jack Lynch Tunnel,i think it was on the main road near Watergrass hill area,does that seem right ?, to be honest i wasnt sure of the limit on that road ,so when the Garda told me what speed limit the road is "allegedly" ,i just took his word for it .
Looks like i will just pay the fine and be done with it

deRanged

andrew1977 wrote:

Hi,
about 10 minutes drive before the roundabout before the Jack Lynch Tunnel,

That's all 100 km/h, so if he clocked you at 130 you were well over.

numorouno

there is no 120km/ph in cork county or the munster region for that matter. the nearest 120km/ph zone i think is portlaoise so you were well and truly over the 100km/ph limit!i was stopped there before and the guard showed me the speed gun which said ***km/ph but i dont think they are obliged to show you the speed. also as far as i know its in court you ask about the laser and not the side of the road and in doing so you lose your lesser points thing by going there.catch 22 is it worth the risk and it may be calibrated correctly.

hargo

1. Some traffic cars do have calibrated fixed radar devices in their cars plus video.
2. You could have asked to see reading at the time, you failed to take up this option.
3. Evidence given in court by the Guard is Sworn evidence not to be taken lightly. You must remember there is plenty of speeding offences out there without making them up as seems to be hinted at in queries such as this. 130/120 is tight 130/100 is silly and you probably know it!

dudara

GB15 wrote:

Where in Cork is there a 120km limit? I thought the max anywhere was 100km even the Ballincollig bypass which should really have motorway status.

That's exactly what I was thinking. There are no motorways anywhere in Cork atm, so the max speed limit in the county is 100 kph everywhere.

el tel

Was thinking that being stopped for 130 in a 120 zone is a bit harsh (certainly less than 10% over), but in a 100 zone, can't really argue with that. In general on the motorway I cruise at 130 yet have never had any bother even though I've had a few 'bogies' on my tail. S'pose the with the Northern reg the amount of paperwork isn't worth the bother to them.

ircoha

sean_keevey wrote:

If it was based on the reading from one of those hairdryer speed guns, they are a obliged to give you a printout from the gun.

Indeed, was this not the reason a whole bunch of them got thrown out of court.

I would check it out with a lawyer plus do some googling, once the paperwork arrives.

If they say 130 in a 100 then I would not go to court unless u ant to challenge the lack of evidence.

In court, Heads they win, Tails, you lose:D

I know, have been there

Alun

hargo wrote:

1. Some traffic cars do have calibrated fixed radar devices in their cars plus video.
2. You could have asked to see reading at the time, you failed to take up this option.

I'm of the opinion that if this is the case, then you should be offered the opprtunity to see the evidence and not have to ask.

3. Evidence given in court by the Guard is Sworn evidence not to be taken lightly. You must remember there is plenty of speeding offences out there without making them up as seems to be hinted at in queries such as this.

If the patrol car has no calibrated speed detection equipment on board, what degree of latitude is allowed for speedometer error? If for example it actually was a 120km/h limit and the (uncalibrated) speedometer in the guards car was showing 130km/h then in all probability no offence was actually being committed.

130/120 is tight 130/100 is silly and you probably know it!

Agreed.

DublinWriter

andrew1977 wrote:

Hi,
I am not from Cork,just down working for a few days, the gardai stopped me about 10 minutes drive before the roundabout before the Jack Lynch Tunnel,

I saw them pull a great trick there when I was driving back to Dublin on that stretch. They had a motorbike + hairdrier under one of the tunnels, and about 500 meters down the road another motorbike + hairdrier, obviously assuming that people would plant the boot once they cleared cop uimbhir a haoin.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

DublinWriter wrote:

I saw them pull a great trick there when I was driving back to Dublin on that stretch. They had a motorbike + hairdrier under one of the tunnels, and about 500 meters down the road another motorbike + hairdrier, obviously assuming that people would plant the boot once they cleared cop uimbhir a haoin.

They also operate like that to catch drivers who flash to drivers coming in the opposite direction to slow them down. They usually give them a verbal bollicking, because i'd imagine the laws on that type of thing are quite vague. (it could hardly be totally illegal to just alert another motorist of a garda's presence)

IrishRover

leeroybrown wrote:

To my knowledge they don't have to show you the speed reading. If it were to go to court the judge would always take their word over yours.

I don't think this is true. Do you know this because you work in the legal profession?

From what I have seen from sitting in on district courts and watching what happens, if somebody up on a driving offence gives evidence that contradicts the guard's evidence or submission, it is assumed that he is telling the truth, because he is under oath.

I have seen cases immediately struck out or dismissed immediately upon a judge asking the person "was the guard's account accurate/true?" and if the person under oath answered no, the judge straight away dismissed the case. That's what I have seen anyway, FWIW.

Would be great if any of the guards who read this forum would comment on this or if anyone is a lawyer who is in a position to confirm or deny that this is the norm.

numorouno

to the original poster id wait until i got the ticket in the post and if it says 130 in a 100 your laughing and the case will (in all likeliness) be struck out in court because you can point out there is no 130 zone in cork but it may be ammended and you could be up the creek. i dont think the guard is obliged to show you the reading but in my case he showed without me asking. 130 in 100 is silly no matter how good or safe the road but thats just my opinon (well since my incident anyhow!)

DublinWriter

IrishRover wrote:

I have seen cases immediately struck out or dismissed immediately upon a judge asking the person "was the guard's account accurate/true?" and if the person under oath answered no, the judge straight away dismissed the case. That's what I have seen anyway, FWIW.

Very true, heard on RTE recently that 90% of people who elect to challenge an RTA offence in court actually win their case.

stratos

When Your points notifications comes it will have a nice piccie of your car and the speed. I got mine. the summons had an even better picture of me at the wheel. I rolled the dice went to court and got it struck out.

overdriver

On what grounds did you challenge it?