2/4 hand ,how do you like the push?

Gholimoli

villain here is a very good player. his tight aggressive and I have a lot of respect for him game and the respect is both ways.
The hands we get involved with often ends up quickly with some one raising and the other one folding or the toher person reraising and the original raiser folding.
We have not gone past the turn in a hand yet that I can remember of.
He is quit capable of folding a very big hand if he thinks he is beat.

Hand:
Stacks hero 400
Villain same

Villain limps UTG.
SB completes and im on the BB with 83o.

Flop(12)
8s 3s 4h
SB checks .i lead for 15 and villain raises another 20.now ive I was paying much attention I would fold his riase here TBH cuz this villain would not raise my bet here with anything I can beat on that board.he is not the sort to limp with big pair and even though that’s a remote possibility its not likely.
So I went ahead and called his raise and SB folds.

Turn (82)
9d
I check and villain leads for 70.again I made a stupid dumb ass call here. Against a normal villain I would often make a call here expecting to be in front but not against him.after I made the call I was pretty sure he had a set .

River (222)
7s completing the flush. i push for 240 or so.
How do you like the push?

Bandana boy

I think it is a great card for your bluff at but having played against you in the past G man i think a lot of players will look you up here with a set

Bp!

There are plenty of hands you can beat on that flop Gholi, alot more hands than you are losin too

El Stuntman

Bp! wrote:

There are plenty of hands you can beat on that flop Gholi, alot more hands than you are losin too

silly q but why not reraise the flop big and take it down with your lucky flopped 2 pair? I don't want to see another card here

Gholimoli

Bp! wrote:

There are plenty of hands you can beat on that flop Gholi, alot more hands than you are losin too

i agree but as the hand developed then i knew my two pair wasnt good.
this villain does get involved in a big hand with out a strong hand and least of all against me.and a strong hand here is two pair or better and any seen as i dont see him limping with 34 UTG then it must be a set.the action on the following streets confirmed this.

Bp!

Well if you have him on a set the river was a great card for you cause an OESD got there as well as the flush so a pretty tough call with a set here for sure.

fuzzbox

Villain limps UTG ... and then subsequently takes the line that he took - so yeah, he has a set extremely often.

Getting 2:1 on the river Vs a Gholi, he should call with his set.

Would you take this line with a flush draw? I would be suspicious if I was in villains position and had a set.

Gholimoli

El Stuntman wrote:

silly q but why not reraise the flop big and take it down with your lucky flopped 2 pair? I don't want to see another card here

its an option and i would normally do it but maybe i just gave his reraise too much cridet.

TBH its still a good option to 3 bet and drop if i get 4 betted.
the hand as i played it sucks and i played it very bad thats whay i was just asking about the push at the end.

ocallagh

problemo with representing the flush.. you called a bet of 70 on the turn. If you were on a flush draw you were seriously priced out, and if he has a lot of respect for your game he won't put you on that draw. The only legitimate hand you could have is somthing like 5s6s or As2s.... but still (and correct me if im wrong), I think with your aggresive style you would re-raise on the flop with a monster draw.. he might easily find a call with a set on the river.

Gholimoli

fuzzbox wrote:

Villain limps UTG ... and then subsequently takes the line that he took - so yeah, he has a set extremely often.

Getting 2:1 on the river Vs a Gholi, he should call with his set.

Would you take this line with a flush draw? I would be suspicious if I was in villains position and had a set.

its not just a flush there Fuzz.
the 7s was the perfect card putting there a flush and a str.
TBH i thought it was the only way i could take the pot down at all .
also even though he knows me to be aggro he knows i respect his game and as i said we have never played a big pot against each other and certainly not with out a hand.
based on all of this what do you think of the push?

fuzzbox

I dont like it because of how you normally play.
Like ocallagh said - you would not normally play so passively with a draw, especially since you are priced out.

Yeah it makes a str8 too, but who the hell puts you on that?

He will lay down all hands worse than yours. He calls you with his own flushes, and he prolly calls you with a set often enough to make this bad.

If you think you are beat, then just fold the turn .

ocallagh

Gholimoli wrote:

the 7s was the perfect card putting there a flush and a str.

i don't like the push. again, you're not calling 70 on the turn to hit a str8. your play in this hand is not very consistent with any sort of holding that is ahead of a set.

Bp!

The turn play was bad ok but having got to the river, surely a push is his only option?

El Stuntman

Gholimoli wrote:

its an option and i would normally do it but maybe i just gave his reraise too much cridet.

TBH its still a good option to 3 bet and drop if i get 4 betted.
the hand as i played it sucks and i played it very bad thats whay i was just asking about the push at the end.

I'd find it hard to put him on a set here (esp given that you already hold 2 of the 6 cards that make this possible) so would re-raise the flop probably to 100 and his reaction will give me all the answers I need

To me Axs, KQs, A8 are all possibilities here too or even 56s?

ocallagh

Bp! wrote:

The turn play was bad ok but having got to the river, surely a push is his only option?

my fold button seems to be working ok!:)

fuzzbox

Bp! wrote:

The turn play was bad ok but having got to the river, surely a push is his only option?

Well he can check and hope the dude has TT and checks behind.

or he can check/fold.

You dont have to exacerbate the mistake by continuing to dig.

Bandana boy

Bp! wrote:

The turn play was bad ok but having got to the river, surely a push is his only option?

Not if he puts villain on set
G-man you mention Villain will lay down a big hand and if he will lay down set then thats fine my feeling is a set looks you up not your bet here a lot

El Stuntman

btw, if I am villain with 44 I call against Gholi the SuperLAG!!

Bp!

fuzzbox wrote:

You dont have to exacerbate the mistake by continuing to dig.

*Rolls up sleeve and heads to Tattoo parlour*

Gholimoli

ok at the time when this happened I quit liked the push and seen as there is no way villain is flushing here or str and I knew he is good enough to lay down a set if he thought he was beat ,I pushed.
He thought for ages and eventually folded and I showed him my hand. When I asked him if he has a set he said yet he had 44 and he said WP .
I played the hand very poorly but I thought the push was good.
Later on though when I was thinking about it again I thought villain made a very bad fold simply because he knew I would not play any draws like that.
As Nail and Fuzz said there are no draws I would play like that specially the way I was priced out of any draws(unmade hands) so I must have had a made hand on the flop and turn and unless I had 88 then he was deffo ahead of me.
I think villain just saw the scary board and thought I wouldn’t push with out the nuts there but never took the time to see how the hand was played and how we got there.

Gholimoli

El Stuntman wrote:

I'd find it hard to put him on a set here (esp given that you already hold 2 of the 6 cards that make this possible) so would re-raise the flop probably to 100 and his reaction will give me all the answers I need

To me Axs, KQs, A8 are all possibilities here too or even 56s?

Ax,KQ,A8 not possible.
he may have raised my lead with A8 but he would not fire a pot sized bet after me calling his raise on the flop.

El Stuntman

El Stuntman wrote:

btw, if I am villain with 44 I call against Gholi the SuperLAG!!

<looks modest and stacks chips in large towers>

ocallagh

Gholimoli wrote:

ok at the time when this happened I quit liked the push and seen as there is no way villain is flushing here or str and I knew he is good enough to lay down a set if he thought he was beat ,I pushed.
He thought for ages and eventually folded and I showed him my hand. When I asked him if he has a set he said yet he had 44 and he said WP .
I played the hand very poorly but I thought the push was good.
Later on though when I was thinking about it again I thought villain made a very bad fold simply because he knew I would not play any draws like that.
As Nail and Fuzz said there are no draws I would play like that specially the way I was priced out of any draws(unmade hands) so I must have had a made hand on the flop and turn and unless I had 88 then he was deffo ahead of me.
I think villain just saw the scary board and thought I wouldn’t push with out the nuts there but never took the time to see how the hand was played and how we got there.

jambag:rolleyes:

Bp!

The river card was a very bad card for him, not so sure i would have showed him the hand BTW...As already said by your self Fuzz and Ocallagh the hand was played bad on the turn (cant fault ya for callin on flop) but pushin the river was really your only way of winning the hand. Knife edge push but sometimes ya gotta do it

It was tough on the villian to call though, maybe if he had more time he may well have called.

Showing the cards here could cost you money though esp cause hes a good player

Gholimoli

Bp! wrote:

The river card was a very bad card for him, not so sure i would have showed him the hand BTW...As already said by your self Fuzz and Ocallagh the hand was played bad on the turn (cant fault ya for callin on flop) but pushin the river was really your only way of winning the hand. Knife edge push but sometimes ya gotta do it

It was tough on the villian to call though, maybe if he had more time he may well have called.

Showing the cards here could cost you money though esp cause hes a good player

nah i wasnt concenred about showing the cards.as i said we both respect each others game and this was just one of thoes hands.
we dont get in each others way that much for this to have any effect.