Amateur Cash Fish

Lplated

I normally only play tournies, but for some reason decided to chance my luck at cash tables this week. Would appreciate advice/comments re the following -

Hand 1 - In SB, 10 players, sitting at table 20 mins or so, €130 (up €30 so far). Lots of limpers every hand. I get KJo. CO folds, next raises to €7, four callers incl. button, I put in €6. Pot about €49.

Flop comes KK10. Have trips, okish kicker, runner runner straight etc... First to act so bet €30. Folded round to button who puts in €60. I call. Pot €169. Turn Ace.

Haven't any real read on the button, he's played a few hands but hasn't shown much. I bet €40, he raises me all-in, I have €23 left, and call without much further thought. I turn over my KJ, he turns over A7suited. River comes other Ace, his Ace over kings beat my Kings over Aces.

Hand 2 (different night). At table for half hour or so, about €120. Lot of callers/limpers, some serious betting with one pair only etc... In BB I get AJo. 3 limpers, then person next to button makes it €7. I call, as do three others. Pot €35.

Flop A 8 J. I'm first to act, bet €25. Three folds. Initial raiser makes it €50. Have seen this guy play only one hand in the 15 mintues he was at the table, which he won with a flop bet and didnt show his cards. Otherwise know nothing. I call. Pot now €135.

Turn 5. I check. Other guy puts in €65 (to cover the €63 i have left). I'm getting 3-1 odds and call. He turns over JJ. River doesn't help me.


Not sure if I'm just a regular calling station, fish or bad player. Think in the first hand I was a bit unlucky as I was ahead up to the River. In the second hand, in hindsight, other player seemed very confident each time he put his money in.

Criticisms on a postcard please...

slegs

First One - The A7 guy is an idiot
Second One - Bad luck

delanec8

Hand 1: Just push on the flop. If you are behind so be it. With the amount of cash you have you cant get away from it regardless of the turn card.

Hand 2: I would again push the flop with such a small amount behind after calling. You were just unlucky here. You're going broke here every time.

MrPillowTalk

Hand 1: push the flop is the only play when it comes around to you.

Hand 2: I reraise every time preflop here as it will look very strong, once you call Im getting all in on the flop the fact he has a set is bad luck. If you reraised pre you get away for most of your money if he plays back.

ianmc38

MrPillowTalk wrote:

If you reraised pre you get away for most of your money if he plays back.

Reraise preflop oop with AJo?

Hand 1: Pure donk calling you with ace high. invite him to your home games.
Hand 2: Again nothing you can do. Demz d breaks as they'd say

Lplated

P.S. Sorry mods, I know this is in wrong forum but don't know how to move it.

Thanks for replies. My feeling was that I was just unlucky with Hand 1, but thought I should/could have done something different with Hand 2 (Would anyone have folded to his raise?).

Question - when people use the word 'push', do you mean bet, max bet, re-raise or all the foregoing? Say in hand one, after flop, pot was €49, I only bet €25 - is this too small with four others still in the hand?

Sangre

Push means to go all in.

In hand one, I would probably bet more, maybe €30ish because you'll be oop of position for the whole hand regardless who calls. I'd want someone to pay for their position. Besides that you played the hand fine. Guy was atotal donk.

Thought the second has was fine aswell, although I probably would have pushed on flop to min raise. You're always going broke in this kind of situation.

MrPillowTalk

ianmc38 wrote:

Reraise preflop oop with AJo?

Absolutely with that action, 3 limpers and a cut off raise, if you call you take AJ four way oop, if you raise it is very effective you make the cutoff have to have a hand which a lot of the time he wont and if he has a premium he will play back for a reraise and let you know your beat. I make this play all the time its pretty standard, cutoff a lot of the time is only trying to pick up dead money in the pot.

delanec8

MrPillowTalk wrote:

Absolutely with that action, 3 limpers and a cut off raise, if you call you take AJ four way oop, if you raise it is very effective you make the cutoff have to have a hand which a lot of the time he wont and if he has a premium he will play back for a reraise and let you know your beat. I make this play all the time its pretty standard, cutoff a lot of the time is only trying to pick up dead money in the pot.

I think youre overestimating players at this level. I think i would fold more often than raise here with AJo. I dont think a raise from the cutoff to 7 after 3 limpers is trying to pick up any dead money. You will almost certainly be called in one spot if you reraise and then you're left playing AJ oop where any decent continuation bet will leave you pot committed.

Sangre

MrPillowTalk wrote:

Absolutely with that action, 3 limpers and a cut off raise, if you call you take AJ four way oop, if you raise it is very effective you make the cutoff have to have a hand which a lot of the time he wont and if he has a premium he will play back for a reraise and let you know your beat. I make this play all the time its pretty standard, cutoff a lot of the time is only trying to pick up dead money in the pot.

I certainly wouldn't assume the players I play with have that kind of understanding of position or dead money.

ianmc38

Eoin I'm not quite sure why you talk about raising AJo OOP here yet in your blog you talk about flat calling preflop with AK?

MrPillowTalk

ianmc38 wrote:

Eoin I'm not quite sure why you talk about raising AJo OOP here yet in your blog you talk about flat calling preflop with AK?

I raise here because of the action that has taken place, if one person was in the pot then I flat call, I raise here with ak as well. Also the reason I reraise with a hand like aj is to find out if I hit my ace will it be good, ie ak and aq will probably play back and I dont get married to an ace on the board.

There is more than one correct way to play poker Ian, Im only trying to explain the way I play hands to reduce the risk involved in each hand, in this particular one I believe raising gives the highest chance of winning the pot and the highest chance of getting away cheap if he has a hand.

Folding is fine here, but I never flat call the hand.

ianmc38

MrPillowTalk wrote:

I raise here because of the action that has taken place, if one person was in the pot then I flat call, I raise here with ak as well. Also the reason I reraise with a hand like aj is to find out if I hit my ace will it be good, ie ak and aq will probably play back and I dont get married to an ace on the board.

There is more than one correct way to play poker Ian, Im only trying to explain the way I play hands to reduce the risk involved in each hand, in this particular one I believe raising gives the highest chance of winning the pot and the highest chance of getting away cheap if he has a hand.

Folding is fine here, but I never flat call the hand.

I was just asking in terms of theory as I'm interested to know your thinking behind it(for my own benefit!) Wasnt trying to catch you out or anything. Trying to improve my own game and advice from yourself and other peeps is invaluable! Nice one.

Sangre

I thought 'raising for information' was a bit of a faux pas? I realise you're reducing the risk of running into a higher kicker without knowing it but aren't you also creating a situation where only better hands will call and the worse ones will fold?

Again like ianmc, I'm only asking for me own sake, not questioning you

MrPillowTalk

ianmc38 wrote:

I was just asking in terms of theory as I'm interested to know your thinking behind it(for my own benefit!) Wasnt trying to catch you out or anything. Trying to improve my own game and advice from yourself and other peeps is invaluable! Nice one.

Sorry Ian I think I took you up wrong there, I thought you were trying to nitpick a bit.

I often call behind with AK but as with all poker its situation dependent, if there are a bunch of people in the pot and noone has shown any real strength then I will jack it up everytime. I call behind when someone or maybe two people have shown strength and I dont believe a raise will get through, this also makes it more likely to get action from an underpair or worse ace if you flop a pair.

MrPillowTalk

Sangre wrote:

I thought 'raising for information' was a bit of a faux pas? I realise you're reducing the risk of running into a higher kicker without knowing it but aren't you also creating a situation where only better hands will call and the worse ones will fold?

Again like ianmc, I'm only asking for me own sake, not questioning you

I know what your saying, however the biggest leak I see in peoples games are compound errors and this is a perfect example of how calling 7 could lose you 100 if you hit an ace.

If you only raise with hands you want to get called very soon people will stop calling, sometimes you just want whats in the pot because your play is going to look strong enough to eliminate anyone who doesnt have a real hand.

RoundTower

Do you really think AQ is going to stick it in here if you make it 30 from the BB? Even in the Fitz AQ is more likely to fold to that action than to reraise.

I think reraising here is fine but it is purely because you expect to have the best hand, if the raiser is someone who can't be messing around then just call and try to hit a good flop.

MrPillowTalk

RoundTower wrote:

Do you really think AQ is going to stick it in here if you make it 30 from the BB? Even in the Fitz AQ is more likely to fold to that action than to reraise.

I think reraising here is fine but it is purely because you expect to have the best hand, if the raiser is someone who can't be messing around then just call and try to hit a good flop.

no I dont think AQ is going to stick it in but if I get any action I know Im going to have to proceed with caution, its a bet to win the pot here.

Rnger

Reraising pf in hand 2 certainly looks like the best option. Theres a good chance you can take the hand now. The hand would be fair easier to drop post flop aswel. The original raiser's range is far better than yours if he elects to call pf, or you can simply drop it if he reraises pf. If you bet the flop and he pushes for a signifigant amount, it is foldable (not by me though!)

Only problem I see is that your hand is fairly irrelevant, this is a pre flop bluff

RoundTower

MrPillowTalk wrote:

no I dont think AQ is going to stick it in but if I get any action I know Im going to have to proceed with caution, its a bet to win the pot here.

I think he will call you with whatever he raised with, T9o or 44 or A6 as the case may be. Normally I would just call here and rarely go broke on an A high flop.

MrPillowTalk

RoundTower wrote:

I think he will call you with whatever he raised with, T9o or 44 or A6 as the case may be. Normally I would just call here and rarely go broke on an A high flop.

I dont call here, I either fold or raise I just dont like playing a four way pots first to act with AJ.

Flushdraw

I probably wouldnt have called the raise preflop out of position with either of the 2 hands. Once you did, u hit the perfect flops, so once u were reraised on the flop, u have to push rather than flat call coz both times theres enough money in the pot to take down there and then and if he does call, ur still a strong favourite (well thats what u would think!)