Driving Test

Scoops

Hi, I have my motorbike driving test coming up and I was just wondering what I'm in for, has anyone done it recently, anyone got any tips? Also do I need to have an L plate on my bike I'm not sure.

Steffano2002

Scoops wrote:

Hi, I have my motorbike driving test coming up and I was just wondering what I'm in for, has anyone done it recently, anyone got any tips? Also do I need to have an L plate on my bike I'm not sure.

Hi Scoops! I'm in the same situation!

Firstly, you don't need L plates on a motorbike. Secondly, if you don't know that there's a good chance you're a little rusty when it comes to the theory so I would advice reviewing it a little before the test as you will be asked some theory questions.

I am actually going to do a 3 hour "pre-test" course with David Lyons based in Raheny the morning of the test. I would advise doing something similar to greatly improve your chances!

Scoops

Thanks Stefano, thats not a bad idea. I must look into a pre test course.

Noelie

I just done my test this morning, and passed .
I done the Pre-Test with David Lyons and it was well worth the money, i probably would have failed if i didn't do it.
They are really into looking at observation on left and right turns, i thought mine was fine but i still got to marks for left and one for right.
I was asked a few ROR questions and about 7/8 road signs, then he asked me about bike maintenance, how to check tyres, where is the brake fluid reserve and how to check the oil level.
Like Steffano said you don't need L plates but get a High-Vis jacket or one of those reflective bands to wear.
But do the Pre-test you'll be told everything you need to know, but unlike steffano you should do it a day or so before your test so you can practice everything you get told.

Scoops

Thanks noelie and Congratulations on passing your test.

Idleater

Scoops wrote:

Thanks noelie and Congratulations on passing your test.

Congratulations indeed.

Scoops, what test centre are you doing the test in?
Do you know if they have radios now or if it is a guy following in a car?

My advice, is to wear loads of proper gear - jacket, trousers, boots, gloves, reflective vest etc.

When I did mine, I took my time at the centre and they tester commented on the "good" gear. I agreed and said I know about the hassle of wearing all the gear but better safe than sorry.
They ask some questions and roadsigns, look at your licence (for gods sake check that it is in date) and get you to declare that the insurance and tax are valid (you don't need to show the insurance disc but the Tax disc MUST be on the bike).

Out at the bike after this they ask you some questions about it, check the tax and the tyres etc and they do the practical part of the test.

Drive carefully, but you are a motorbike and are allowed to make progress if you can. Eg, if a car is waiting to turn right and you can fit by on their left do, even though the tester in the car (assuming he is in a car) cant. Keep going do NOT wait. He will pull in and catch you next time around.

Can fill in more specific details as reqired...

L.

Laserface

v helpful thread heads.
i have a test coming up soon.
I'm sending off a letter from work today..as i use it for deliveries a lot...and should hopefully hurry my test

Scoops

Thanks for the advice Nereid, my test is in the Churchtown Centre. I have no idea whether they follow you or use a radio but I have booked myself in for a pre-test course with the ISM so I'm sure they can answer all my questions. Like can anyone tell me should I put the bike in nuetral everytime I stop at traffic lights??

murphaph

Scoops wrote:

Like can anyone tell me should I put the bike in nuetral everytime I stop at traffic lights??

No. This isn't the more difficult UK test we're talking about. My mate did it in NI and you have to do that little handbrake-clutch-neutral-footbrake-handbrake-clutch-1st gear dance sh!te at every set of lights, right pain in the hole tbh. Down here just leave it in gear and keep the clutch out for a prompt getaway from the lights. Progress is important and as already stated, do NOT wait for the tester following behind in his cage. You WILL fail for that. When traffic is moving get in the middle or just left of middle of your lane and behave like a car. A pretest is invaluable as I found out when D Lyons told me loads of stuff and I passed with a clean sheet. I firmly believe I would have failed otherwise.

mickbyrne

Got my first bike on 01/10/2005, booked lessons to learn how to ride properly straight away, did a lesson applied for a test expecting to get it this year some time. Got a phone call a few weeks later, sat and passed the test on 17/11/05 having only put up 450 miles on the bike.

The test is a joke, the lessons are invaluable to passing it though, and after that as long as you have good road sense you'll fly it.

Back doing more lessons know to learn how to handle a bike properly.

Idleater

Scoops wrote:

my test is in the Churchtown Centre

Thats where I did mine, albeit about three years ago and the route was out of test centre turn right towards Bottle tower, right at bottle tower, left towards church, right after church, right at next crossroads, past test centre. repeat x 3 and he stopped me on the road between church and crossroads to do turnabout and slow walk. then left left left etc x 3.

As regards putting the bike in neutral, it is a good safety habit to get into. Make sure you stop the bike with your foot on the back brake and put the left foot down. then if you know that you are going to be waiting a while, eg at traffic lights, then you could demonstrate that you know that putting the bike in neutral is *safer*.

If you have a motorbike tester following you, you could go anywhere, so I would recommend driving around the neighbourhood to get a good feeling for the roads. Particularly, go past the church and left after nutgrove, left at the roundabout and then left again which brings you back to dundrum village.

Also, if you go left/straight at the crossroads mentioned in the simple test there are loads of roads there that my instructor brought me. Braemror road, even the other side along the dodder to milltown.

At least go and find out where there are roadworks, dodgy lights etc, anything that could cause confusion during the test.

Best advice is wear the gear, and drive safely and confidently. Your instructor will teach you road positioning on corners etc but otherwise position yourself on the road where the driver of a car would be.

L.

sutty

I done mine in Finglas in July. Passed with out any problems really. Some tips I can remember...

- He follows you in a car, you are given a radio with a shoulder strap and a ear plug. If you are on a sports style bike, the radio will fall forward as you lean. You are not meant to take your hand off the controls at anytime. But ask the tester before hand if it is ok if to remove your left hand at safe times in order to reposition the radio if needed.

- In your slow control, try keep your body level with the tester. So he can see you control the bike. I got marked as I kept my front wheel level with him.

- In terms of gear. The only thing you need is a Helmet with a chin strap that will fasten. He will watch you put it on. Everything else is just for your sake. I had my coat, Helmet and gloves on when I done mine. (hot July day) And no problems there.

- Your Controlled Turn about is just that. It is not a U turn. The Idea is to keep the bike in control. If your bike does not have a tight lock (like mine) you will have the turning arc of a bus the way they want you to do it. Don’t be afraid to tell a tester that your bike can not make the turn or you can tell him, you can give it a best effort. When making the turn and about to fail to clear it. straighten the front wheel up and use the back brake to bring your-self to a stop. Once stopped in control and your left foot is cleanly down. Check to make sure both ways are clear and then move the bike back out to a distance you can safely complete the turn. What ever you do, don’t use the front brake when doing this. it looks like a lack of control.

- Look in your mirrors at least every 8 seconds on a long straight or as you feel is needed. Make good head movements in order to show you are looking in your mirror.

- Keep the bike running smoothly. Try keep the gears correct for your speed. IE: Don’t make the bike have to "work" in order to move. You do not need to go into Neutral at any time. When stopped, keep the bike in first. It is a safer practise and will allow you to take off if danger comes from behind.

- When coming to lights, stop signs, or Yield Signs. Bring the bike down to first, put your left foot down and your right on the back brake. Check to make sure your way is clear and proceed as soon as it is safe for YOU. Do not be afraid to lose the tester. He will ether catch up or ask you to pull in so he can get up with you. Same goes for over taking a car turning to the right. If it is safe for the bike to clear the car and road side on the left. Indicate to the left and proceed. However if at a Junction. Do not indicate. I done this in my test and got a grade 2 for a bad over take (I made it look like I was turning to the left exit of the junction.) but was not failed due to no oncoming traffic.

- Get a pre test. Doesn't really matter where you do it. But get one done. It will put you into "test driving mode" This is different than proper driving mode.

- Go over the rules of the road and road signs. Look out for the clearway one. It is different than any of the pictures you will see else where. The one the have is just a red circle with a X through it. But no times down the bottom. The will also ask you some basic copon bike questions. IE: What can cause the back tire to slip when braking. You only need to give a few answers, such as, Oil, Diesel, gravel, debris (rubbish) and slippery road surfaces (white lines and the such) That will be more than enough for that question.

- He will take you out to the bike and ask you to point to or describe parts of the bike and or its maintenance. Such as how do you tighten your chain if your bike has one. So go over these if you do not know them off hand. A tricky one is Oil. How do you check your Oil level. Some bikes like Dragstar 250's dont have any level indicters anywhere. So make something up, Such as a make**** dipstick. (but only if you have to)

-Lastly, ride safely but not slowly, stick to speed limits, stop at signs and enjoy the chance to ride your bike. There is no need to be Nervous. Its just an other ride out really. I quite enjoyed my test once I got going. Some nice turns in all.



Edit: fixed spelling mistake's.

Tomohawk

- In terms of gear. The only thing you need is a Helmet with a chin strap that will fasten. He will watch you put it on. Everything else is just for your sake. I had my coat, Helmet and gloves on when I done mine. (hot July day) And no problems there.

Excellent and informative post by Sutty. My test last year was a similar experience. Can we consider making this a sticky!

I would also suggest to wear a High Vis Jacket or bib also (even just for the test). If you look the part it will signal to the examiner that you mean business and will help your case at least on a human and subliminal level. For example, wearing decent boots will also make a better impression than sandals or even runners...although wearing them won't get you official "marks". It's all in the detail!!

KTRIC

I did my test in Raheny on a 70's Kawasaki and the examiner was more interested in reminising over my bike than the actual test. Old guys seem to love the old bikes, so its worth a try aswell. You might earn some brownie points by borrowing a nice bike from someone rather than going on a 5000cc Fireblade

sutty

Very true, the tester's Jaw dropped when he walked out and seen the Duc. First words out of his mouth when I finished the test where "That is some sound out of that" :cool: We even had a 5min chat about the bike and places I've gone on it, after the test was over and results given. Remember people, the testers a person too and more than likely like's bikes too or has a interest in them. So off the bat, you have something incommon with the guy. So relax, take it easy and you'll be grand.

Wishbone Ash

Scoops wrote:

I have no idea whether they follow you or use a radio

Scoops - be prepared for both methods. If the radio system is malfunctioning they may revert to the traditional method. Also, if two bike tests are scheduled together they may also abandon the radio as they had problems previously with mixed up instructions resulting in everyone getting lost.

I failed the first time for exceeding the speed limit even though I was told to stay around 35 mph (pre metric days) but I heard later that it was because I didn't slow down a little passing two schools on the route.

Good Luck.

sutty wrote:

Remember people, the testers a person too and more than likely like's bikes too or has a interest in them.

My tester seemed positively bored by the whole bike thing but I also had him for the articulated truck test and he seemed much more into that.

Tomohawk

My tester was an old fella who chatted to me after the test about growing up as a young lad in dun laoghaire and glenageary. After he said I'd passed, he proceeded to reminisce about living in the area as a youngster when there was local farms and even sheep in glenageary in the 1950s and 1960s...which was nice

As mentioned before, if you drive something special I reckon you will score some extra kudos with the tester if he or she's into bikes...and that's before you leave the carpark to do the rounds.
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"This is my BIKE. There are many like IT, but THIS one is mine!"

il gatto

Does anyone know if you need a cert to show your bike is resticted? Do they have access to any records of this? Is insurance, tax and a licence enough? For example, could I show up on my mates full powered R6 if I changed the insurance for a day ( I know it'd be supposed to be resticted to change the insurance ). People ask me about this and I don't know. Can they ask for any evidence of retrictor kit?

Wishbone Ash

il gatto wrote:

Does anyone know if you need a cert to show your bike is resticted? Do they have access to any records of this? Is insurance, tax and a licence enough? For example, could I show up on my mates full powered R6 if I changed the insurance for a day ( I know it'd be supposed to be resticted to change the insurance ). People ask me about this and I don't know. Can they ask for any evidence of retrictor kit?

I was not asked but as I used a Driving School bike, they probably asccepted/knew that it was restricted.

Idleater

il gatto wrote:

Does anyone know if you need a cert to show your bike is resticted? Do they have access to any records of this? Is insurance, tax and a licence enough? .... Can they ask for any evidence of retrictor kit?

The only things you NEED are:

1) A current tax disc which must be ON the bike,
and
2) Your licence which must be valid for the category and vehicle which you are driving for the test.

You sign a decleration in the test centre before the test that the bike is insured and conforms to your insurance stipulations (ie, if the bike insurance is for a restricted bike then the bike is restricted).

There is no restriction "certification" other than official factory restriction which is done by the manufacturer and linked to the VIN.

If you don't declare something/or declare something wrongly and are found out then obviously don't expect to get away with it. How they find out is another matter.

L.

sutty

il gatto wrote:

Does anyone know if you need a cert to show your bike is resticted? Do they have access to any records of this? Is insurance, tax and a licence enough? For example, could I show up on my mates full powered R6 if I changed the insurance for a day ( I know it'd be supposed to be resticted to change the insurance ). People ask me about this and I don't know. Can they ask for any evidence of retrictor kit?

You dont need the cert for the test. But you will more than likely need it for the insurance. You only need to sign the a cert to say that you are correctly insured with your insurance company. IE: Your bike is restricted and no changes in engine size and so on.

Mjedl

2002 Dragstar, oil bubble located and you need to get on your knees to see it is in by the brake pedal behind the exhaust, very awkward to spot ,:)

sutty

Really? Was that on the 125/250's or the 650's? Cant say I ever noticed that on my 2003 250

psicic

sutty wrote:

Really? Was that on the 125/250's or the 650's? Cant say I ever noticed that on my 2003 250

Could have sworn I had already replied to this, mustn't have clicked 'submit':

I've a 2001 Dragstar 250 and the oil sight is right there in line with the rear-brake pedal. It's a bit of a bugger, though. Bike has to be held level or else it gives a false reading, so it's a two man job. The sight is difficult to see so you'd need a torch to read it most days, but if the torch is too bright reflection is a problem. I think I discovered it when changing oil one day.

My own bike test is in 15 hours.... this thread has been pretty useful so thanks everyone for posting.... guess I really need to start to look at that rules of the road book... and attach my tax disc to my bike...

murphaph

psicic wrote:

My own bike test is in 15 hours

So, how'd you get on?

psicic

murphaph wrote:

So, how'd you get on?

Fine.....except....

Roundabouts.


I didn't take any lessons due to time pressures(had a Civil Service promotion exam/interview which I was notified of the exact same day as the driving test). Also, I had been practicing on the Rathgar routes, not the Churchtown routes, which has no roundabouts.

I normally rarely use roundabouts, the only one I encounter regularly is a direct left turn. So I wasn't doing the life-saver correctly when turning off, I was just using my mirrors. He took me to four small-ish roundabouts on a few estates. 4 faults of the same grade 2 mistake means...fail.

Decent bloke, told me exactly why I'd failed, even said try to get a cancellation because it was the only major fault. I'm not too put out though, it was something I genuinely hadn't encountered before and I'll be a safer rider for it.

Now....anyone know how I go about getting a cancellation? Is it just a letter from an 'employer' saying I need it for work, or is there some place I can ring up?

murphaph

I was told by driver testing in Ballina that "hardly any bike tests are cancelled" and "you'd be very lucky to ever get a cancellation". They are totally separate queues from the other catagory tests so a car driver cancelling is useless to you.

Apply to Raheny if you want your test quickly. It has plenty of dedicated bike testers so the queue moves quickly.

Best of luck next time.

MrPudding

My test in the UK got cancelled cos the b@stard examiners went on strike. Very annoying.

MrP

il gatto

Thanks nereid. The thread was merged or I forgot which one I'd posted in and I just found your reply now.

Scoops

Well, I have since done and failed my test Apparentlt I failed due to my position in the road on the straight and left hand turns! Raging, can anyone tell me where I should be in the road? I did a pre-test with the ISM and they didn't mention anything about road position! My pre tester was also confident that I would pass so I'm not sure of the validity of my fail but there's nothing I can do about that. I have reapplied for the test so if anyone knows definitively what position I should be in on the road can they tell me, it would be greatly appreciated.

Noelie

You should be in the center of the road at all times, however when you are turning left you should only be about a meter from the curb, thats what my my pre-test guy told me, apparently ISM aren't great for doing Bike pre-test, a few people have told me the done a pre-test with them and they all failed there tests, but that could just be a coincidence

Scoops

Noelie wrote:

You should be in the center of the road at all times, however when you are turning left you should only be about a meter from the curb, thats what my my pre-test guy told me, apparently ISM aren't great for doing Bike pre-test, a few people have told me the done a pre-test with them and they all failed there tests, but that could just be a coincidence

Thanks Noelie but just to clarify and I know this is a ridiculous question but I'm pretty sure I was in the centre of the road, should I be between half way between the kerb and the centre marking of the road?

Idleater

Scoops wrote:

Thanks Noelie but just to clarify and I know this is a ridiculous question but I'm pretty sure I was in the centre of the road, should I be between half way between the kerb and the centre marking of the road?

There is no actual answer as to where you should be on the road, because on a bike you are free to move about in your lane.

As a general guide, take up the "command" position which is basically exactly where you would be if you were in a car - in other words, when you are following behind a car, you should be directly behind the driver.

Now, when you are making turns, you move more to the centre of the road for a right turn and you move more to the left side of the road for a left turn.
For the DoE test, I was told that they like to see bikes go to the left (eg where the passenger sits in a car) when approaching the turn and then move another bit left just before and as you make the turn.

Of course, this is entirely general because, if there is an obstruction, pothole, speedbump whatever, you are allowed to do whatever you like, move to the left move to the right etc. Another example is if you are in slow moving traffic and are positioned behind a van or lorry. Then you can move to the left to look up the inside or to the right to look up the outside. All perfectly acceptable because you are giving yourself more viewing distance etc. Of course, you should not be weaving, and lifesaver every time you change position...

Positioning is very subjective and the only way to get around it is practice practice and more practice.

L.

Scoops

nereid wrote:

As a general guide, take up the "command" position which is basically exactly where you would be if you were in a car - in other words, when you are following behind a car, you should be directly behind the driver.

So you disagree with Noelie saying I should be in the centre of the road?
All I know is I was confident and did not drive dangerously at any time. I was asked by a few different people (employees) in the test centre if it was my first time out doing the test which I wondered about as I didn't think it was really relevant.
I was on my third provisional licence, I've been on the road for a number of years so it's not really like I need practice. TBH I walked back into the test centre thinking I had passed and I was shocked when he told me I had failed.

Noelie

Perhaps i shouldn't have said road, you should be in the center of your lane, well thats what i was told and thats what i did during the test and i passed.

what i was told was if your too far to the left, your asking cars to pass you out, and if your too far to the right your liable to be undertaken, not to say what nereid is worng but i was told the Command position is in the centre of your lane,

you have to be really careful when going round bend's to hold your correct position. you need to stay centered in the lane as you follow the curve of the road, so you shouldn't cut the bend, I find myself doing this on right handers, but not so much on left handed bends.

Idleater

Scoops wrote:

So you disagree with Noelie saying I should be in the centre of the road?

No, what Noelie said is basically correct.

Noelie wrote:

not to say what nereid is worng but i was told the Command position is in the centre of your lane

The only thing that I was taught that was different to this is that the centre of the lane tends to collect debris because the car wheels clean out the spaces just to the left and just to the right.

The command position that I mentioned is only slightly out from the centre of the lane. Try it next time you are on the bike. Just position the bike behind the driver's seat of the car in front and follow from there. You will notice that you are near to the centre of the lane but not quite there.

Noelie wrote:

you have to be really careful when going round bend's to hold your correct position. you need to stay centered in the lane as you follow the curve of the road, so you shouldn't cut the bend, I find myself doing this on right handers, but not so much on left handed bends.

This is correct and some good advice for biking - maintaining the position on a corner demonstrates to the examiner that you are not "cutting" it, and generally you are cornering at a safer speed.

Cutting the corner is not a good idea on a bike like you say. For the DoE test, I was told to drive around left hand bends following the driver position in a car, and go around right hand bends following the passenger. Being honest, you are only moving to the left and right a total distance of about 1 metre - (50 cm over each side of the centre of the lane). You are keeping yourself out of the grit, dirt, and oil which is a good safe way to drive.

Making a left turn (ie indicating) at a junction, I would suggest, as I said above, to initially position yourself at the passenger car place, indicate, and then coming up to the corner, move left a little more and take the corner similar to a car speed but keeping it "tight" ish (1m - 1.5m) away from the kerb for the entire bend. Then, once the manouver is complete, move to the driver side position.

You should try this out when you are out driving next. And in the weeks coming up to your test do this ALL the time so you get used to it. There will be years afterwards in which to unlearn it

When you have passed the DoE it can be explained how to corner safer (but not for the DoE test) so I will leave that for another thread).

L.

a_ominous

Just to add my tuppence worth on the positioning: just left of centre of lane was what I was taught for lessons. Was referred to as the command position. Too far over to the right and cars can come up on your inside invading your space and putting you at risk. Near the centre of lane reduces this possibility.

But that only applies on straight stretches of road: in a bend, the bike leans over. In a right hander, if you're riding near the centre, your body will probably be leaning over the centre line and if a car comes round that corner, you'll be in an ambulance or a hearse. Keeping left will also help to give you more visibility through the corner. Of course, if you move too far to the left, you can end up in grit/gravel on the side of the road.

In the advanced courses, they will always tell you, never to sacrafice position for safety i.e. if there's gravel on the road, or a pothole, don't try to take the bend in the 'correct' position. Do it safely, which will probably mean having to roll off the throttle, leaning in less. But you do get to ride the bike another day, which is nice.

@Scoops, I'd suggest you try the Garda Bikesafe scheme. The poster on Irish biker forum doesn't say anything about having a full licence, but the application form does. But it doesn't make sense to me that they only take full licence people on it. Bikesafe is free currently; I think it's to do with it being a pilot project (also only Dublin based). Did it meself a few weeks back. I'll need to take a half day training soon to get higher grade in advanced test which is due for renewal soon.
There was a lad who came up from Cork for the assessment. From what I could make out, the garda who took him out (1 on 1) spent some time explaining to him how to improve his riding. The garda who was out with me said I could have gone faster in the corners. This is my weakest area: I don't have to corner at all in my commute and I don't feel very comfortable leaning over at 45 degrees and then seeing a heap of gravel in my line. Both a butt clenching and opening moment :eek:

Idleater

a_ominous wrote:

In the advanced courses, they will always tell you, never to sacrafice position for safety

And that is the problem with the DoE test. Most particularly when the examiner follows you in a car. They expect the "Vehicle" being tested (regardless) not to obstruct the road for other road users so they expect a bike to "get out of the way of traffic" - ie move to the edge of the road and continue around the corner "near" the edge.

Just as a side note, I drove home yesterday in the position that I described above - behind the driver for straights and left hand bends and behind the passenger for right hand bends and I was only drifting across 1m of road max. A car is not wide and you are "pretty much" covering the entire "centre" of the lane as Noelie said.

The most annoying thing is the left hand turns (with indicator) because the way that they want you to do it is not the safest (as a_ominous described).

L.