Weapon Training

abetarrush

Are there any clubs that do a good bit of weapon training?

All I found was Bujinkan, but the club I went to was pretty crap

and theres a new Korean Sword Martial Art comin out, so ill check that


Anything else?

Michael O Leary

Hi Abe,

We teach Escrima which is Filipino weapons fighting. You would start off with the single stick before moving onto double stick, palm stick, empty hands, stick and knife, staff, swords, etc. Interested?

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

pearsquasher

Well I have found Bujinkan weapons training to be excellent. Got me out of a scrape or 2. It covers all weapons at all ranges.

Within the Bujinkan you can find crap teachings and excellent ones and students are encouraged to find the one that suits them. Sometimes it doesn't work out but I feel it has for me.

columok

If you wanna learn katana work (not posturing but really spar) then kendo is the way to go.

If you wanna learn stickfighting then: Michael as he already said or Kali or Arnis. Scuttery from the boards is also prone to a bit of hitting people with sticks.

Most of everything else I've seen (maybe Bujinkan included) is posturing with weapons hitting air.

Michael O Leary

Hey Columok is right,

Scuttery also teaches Eskrima under a different organisation while he teaches a different style from the one I represent I won't get into a debate into which is best. I think these arguments are a bit redundent, especially as my own knowledge of Escrima is limited while Scuttery is a black belt but all I can say is that what I learn makes sense to me but I have also been to a seminar by Scuttery's teacher which was really good.

Regarding the Kendo, I once saw a documentary on it and I found some of the principles to be a mixture of Aikido (which my mother is a black belt in and which Columok also practised) and Wing Tsun. Kendo had the Wing Tsun principle of the centreline and the Aikido principle of Ma-ai (spelling), distance/awareness. However Kendo is prinarily a vehicle for spiritual discipline while Escrima/Eskrima focuses more on self-defence. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing I will leave up to you but like Escrima/Eskrima, they also focus on sparring.

The Korean swordmanship also looks good and they teach it in the same venue as myself and the head instructor is a lovely guy. (Thats half the battle)

Try us all.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

silat liam

abetarrush wrote:

Are there any clubs that do a good bit of weapon training?

All I found was Bujinkan, but the club I went to was pretty crap

and theres a new Korean Sword Martial Art comin out, so ill check that


Anything else?

Hi Abetarrush
In Silat there is a number of weapons that we train in
there divided into two basic sections Blade and Stick

Stick Training
Trumbu (Staff)
Cane (Single and double)
Kanching (Pocket Stick size)

Blade Training
Knife
Kermabit (Tiger Claw )
Kunjang (Cimande Curve Blade)
Tjibang (Trident Blade)
Pendang ( Sword - 4 Styles I teach 1) Cirange 2) Tari Kolot 3) Cimande 4)Suilwa
Keris
Spear and Shield
Golok
Machete

There are other weapons, but they are specialize. There are classes in Firhouse, Lucan and Walkinstown if you interested, send me a PM

Liam
www.silateurope.com

pearsquasher

Most of everything else I've seen (maybe Bujinkan included) is posturing with weapons hitting air.

Well I personally feel that in-depth study in Bujinkan, with a teacher that regularily trains with his/her own Bujinkan teacher, for about 2 years is required to begin to understand weapons in the manner thought in this martial art - in modern times. Bujinkan is a longer term art not a pop in for a look-see thing.

By modern times i mean that I believe equal competancy was gained in less time during actual war-time back in the day because of battlefield experience and more pressing circumstances.

Today further study after 2 years, depending on the student, can lead to competency and then maybe mastery.

If you wanna learn katana work (not posturing but really spar) then kendo is the way to go.

It's well regarded on many sword forums that "katana work" i.e. kenjutsu, and kendo - are very different things and both diciplines seem to have no problem acknowledging this from what I've read from practicioners of both. In the Bujikan, in 2 dojo's that I have attended for long enough periods for development, I have sparred a-la kendo but for entirely different purposes than point-scoring or 1-on-1 strategy/spirit building. (To anaylse distance and structure if you must know)

If you want to study the use of the katana in the way it was designed for.. find a school that teaches kenjutsu. If you want to fight/spar with bamboo and develop your spirit, kendo's your man. I recommend both!

Killme00

Hi Guys,

Are any of these escrima classes in the city centre. Its always been something i have wanted to learn. Can you also tell me what nights the training is on because at the moment im training on Mondays, Wednesdays and Saturdays.

Thanks for your help,
Tom

scuttery1

Are any of these escrima classes in the city centre

Yep as opposed to when I started there's now a clatter of places offering FMA.
There's Doce Pares in Pearse street (http://www.wildgeesema.com/)
There's the bould Mick O'Learys friend Nick in Molesworth street (http://www.wingtsun-escrima.ie/) & then there's us no website yet but if you follow this link it gives our details (http://www.im2lazy.com/index1.html).
Go have a gander at these places and see if it's what you want.
All the best,

reversed

Hi,

unfortunately, I do not know of any weapons training in Ireland.
I was looking for Kobudo in the Ennis area, but to no avail.
Are there people practicing Kobudo?

Got another question: is it legal to carry tonfas around in Ireland?


Thanks,
Reversed

SorGan

reversed wrote:

Hi,

unfortunately, I do not know of any weapons training in Ireland.
I was looking for Kobudo in the Ennis area, but to no avail.
Are there people practicing Kobudo?

Got another question: is it legal to carry tonfas around in Ireland?


Thanks,
Reversed

ha ha your kidding right?
it aint the bronx.
whats kobudo?

reversed

SorGan wrote:

ha ha your kidding right?
it aint the bronx.
whats kobudo?

Do you have anything to contribute?
Maybe you get informed before insulting people.

SorGan

reversed wrote:

Do you have anything to contribute?
Maybe you get informed before insulting people.

No insult was intended my friend, i actualy tought you were joking!
what other reaction do you expect when you ask can you carry tonfas around?
as for getting informed, again can you please explain to me what kobudo is, it rings a bell but i cant place it, peace:)

Pro. F

Hey Michael,
Not meaning to be picky but just a point - as far as I know Ma-ai is a concept that has been around in Japan for longer then aikido or kendo. These relatively new arts share similar origins.
I just mention this in case people, reading your post, think that kendo got the ma-ai concept from aikido as opposed to from the older battle field arts of Japan.

As I'm writing something just struck me: the similarities between ma-ai (from what I remember from reading about it) and what the dog brothers talk about when they talk about ranges of fighting, particularly outside largo. I suppose fighting is fighting and whats true for one art is true for another. or maybe my imagination is just getting too active :rolleyes:

PS. congrats on finishing your nasty exams!!

reversed

SorGan wrote:

No insult was intended my friend, i actualy tought you were joking!
what other reaction do you expect when you ask can you carry tonfas around?
as for getting informed, again can you please explain to me what kobudo is, it rings a bell but i cant place it, peace:)

Ok, sorry.

In Germany, for example, Nunchakus are completely illegal, even the soft ones, but you can have tonfas with you. (Concealed probably.)
So, I'll refine my question: is it legal to possess tonfas in Ireland and to have them with you, in your car, to use them for selfdefense?
Are there any know web resources concerning law and (martials arts) weapons in Ireland?

Kobudo is the school of Okinawa weapons, like tonfas, nunchaku, sai, bo,etc.
I hope that's precise enough, but that's the direction.

Cheers!

cushtac

reversed wrote:

Are there any know web resources concerning law and (martials arts) weapons in Ireland?

Go to www.irishstatutebook.ie & do a search for the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997. Sections 18 - 20 of this Act cover the justifiable use of force by an individual.

SorGan

Where a person has with him in any public place any article intended by him unlawfully to cause injury to, any person either in a particular eventuality or otherwise, he shall be guilty of an offence.

you need a reason to be carrying a weapon ie: training:)

reversed

That's a good start!
Thanks for the link!

Training is always a good reason, isn't it?

Roper

Ha ha yes its gas when people justify carrying around things designed to hurt people.:(

Even when you have an excuse to be carrying around a weapon (tonfa for training, spanner for plumbing) you're going to have to justify its use. Invariably you won't be able to as you have to use reasonable force, and unless he pulled a shotgun or a knife, use of weaponry is probably going to be viewed as unreasonable.

SorGan

Roper wrote:

Ha ha yes its gas when people justify carrying around things designed to hurt people.:(

Even when you have an excuse to be carrying around a weapon (tonfa for training, spanner for plumbing) you're going to have to justify its use. Invariably you won't be able to as you have to use reasonable force, and unless he pulled a shotgun or a knife, use of weaponry is probably going to be viewed as unreasonable.

Quite true,its not a healty choice eather to be carrying/or thinking about, weapons, in the street. get some good hand skills, enjoy life, no worrys:D

columok

reversed wrote:

Do you have anything to contribute?

LOL. Ironic. I would question your ability to contribute positively to society when you're considering carrying concealed weapons around.

Constructing justification to carry something designed to injure a fellow human being is a little crap in my opinion.

What lifestyle do you lead that requires you to carry a tonfa? Would you prefer to change your lifestyle or face a GBH or manslaughter conviction? (assuming the street doesn't take your tonfa off you and do something nasty with it)

Michael O Leary

Pro. F wrote:

Hey Michael,
Not meaning to be picky but just a point - as far as I know Ma-ai is a concept that has been around in Japan for longer then aikido or kendo. These relatively new arts share similar origins.
I just mention this in case people, reading your post, think that kendo got the ma-ai concept from aikido as opposed to from the older battle field arts of Japan.

As I'm writing something just struck me: the similarities between ma-ai (from what I remember from reading about it) and what the dog brothers talk about when they talk about ranges of fighting, particularly outside largo. I suppose fighting is fighting and whats true for one art is true for another. or maybe my imagination is just getting too active :rolleyes:

PS. congrats on finishing your nasty exams!!

Hi Pro F,

Feel free to be as picky as you want. I was just referring to something I saw on the TV, believe me I am not expert on this. I would agree that Aikido and Kendo share the same principle of Ma-ai instead of one getting it from the other.

Columok, as you did Aikido, do you have any insights?

I am not sure what the Dog Brothers have to say on the subject. I recently saw one of their video which was advertised as dynamic and I have to say that it was really boring.

Thanks for the congrats on the exams. It feels really great to be finished.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

Budo.Judo.Kev

Saying kendo is like aikido is bollox in my opinion. in kendo, you practice your kendo technique then you try and wak a guy with your stick. in aikido you practice your technique.

reversed

columok wrote:

LOL. Ironic. I would question your ability to contribute positively to society when you're considering carrying concealed weapons around.

Constructing justification to carry something designed to injure a fellow human being is a little crap in my opinion.

What lifestyle do you lead that requires you to carry a tonfa? Would you prefer to change your lifestyle or face a GBH or manslaughter conviction? (assuming the street doesn't take your tonfa off you and do something nasty with it)

I think my original question was quite neutral.
I never said I intended to carry weapons around and it's not about constructing any excuse.
I was just asking about the legal stuff around it, because I'm not from Ireland.
In Germany you're allowed to carry different kind of weapons for self-defense purposes, but they have to be concealed, e. g. e-shockers, tears gas guns.
You're also allowed to carry a bo or even a Iaido sword for training purposes. (Just to name a few.)
Nevertheless, weapon laws in Germany are quite restrictive, especially on guns.

I hope, I made it clear enough now.

Further, I think it's a very good idea not only to get some hand skills but also get used to one a two weapons of choice.
See the aspect of body coordination, also the pure ability.

And yes. I *would* use weapons, if I'm attacked and they would help me to end this attack with less harm to me as possible.
Is this forum about cuddling or what?

Cheers!

Budo.Judo.Kev

as far as i know you can carry what ever you want as long as it's not concealed or you threaten to use it.

Budo.Judo.Kev

actually not machetes for some reason.

Michael O Leary

Budo.Judo.Kev wrote:

Saying kendo is like aikido is bollox in my opinion. in kendo, you practice your kendo technique then you try and wak a guy with your stick. in aikido you practice your technique.

Hi Kev,

No one said Aikido was like Kendo, just that they shared a common principle regarding distancing. Thats all.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

cushtac

Look at the Firearms & Offensive Weapons Act 1990 for guidance on the carrying of weapons, Section 9 in particular.

Edited to add: Please note that I'm not qualified to give legal advice, any legislation I mention may not be the only bit of law covering the subject & it's up to the individual to proper get legal advice.

That's my arse covered.

Budo.Judo.Kev

Michael O Leary wrote:

Hi Kev,

No one said Aikido was like Kendo, just that they shared a common principle regarding distancing. Thats all.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

Hi Mike,

While I accept I've never done Kendo or Aikido, I think this common principle you're talking about is all philosophical nonsense.

Michael O Leary

Budo.Judo.Kev wrote:

Hi Mike,

While I accept I've never done Kendo or Aikido, I think this common principle you're talking about is all philosophical nonsense.

Hi Kev,

What do you think is nonsense? The Ma-ai principle of distancing itself or my suggestion that they share this principle?

Were you Mola Mola in a previous life?

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

columok

In my opinion ma-ai (terminology aside) exists in any striking art or weapons art.
The idea of being at a distance and angle where you can strike and your opponent cannot is fundamental. So circling an opponent just out of their thai kicking range but at an angle where you can teep em is pretty much the same distancing principle as being a quarter of a shinai away from their shomen-uchi.

Terminology-Schmerminology.

Budo.Judo.Kev

Michael O Leary wrote:

Hi Kev,

What do you think is nonsense? The Ma-ai principle of distancing itself or my suggestion that they share this principle?

Were you Mola Mola in a previous life?

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

yes I amthe artist formerly known as mola.mola the sunfish. I'm not going to enter a debate with you, you'll win . But the point I'm trying to say is:

People might say judo and aikdio are similar because they use the concepts of balance and using other person's momentum where as I feel in someways these are rather abstract principles and a much better way to look at it is to say well in judo you're trying to control and throw a guy which is like greco-roman wrestling.

It's just I've read a lot of internet articles written by internet people who seemed to have read other internet articles about stuff. I don't go around saying wing tsun is like kung fu cos they're a bit flappy.

Michael O Leary

Budo.Judo.Kev wrote:

yes I amthe artist formerly known as mola.mola the sunfish. I'm not going to enter a debate with you, you'll win . But the point I'm trying to say is:

People might say judo and aikdio are similar because they use the concepts of balance and using other person's momentum where as I feel in someways these are rather abstract principles and a much better way to look at it is to say well in judo you're trying to control and throw a guy which is like greco-roman wrestling.

It's just I've read a lot of internet articles written by internet people who seemed to have read other internet articles about stuff. I don't go around saying wing tsun is like kung fu cos they're a bit flappy.

Hi Kev,

I think you might win this one as I know very little about Aikido or Kendo and by the way your last post on the thread, "which one" was pure class.

You have made some good points by the way in this last post. Much better than calling something "bollix" or "philosopical nonsense" don't you think?;)

By the way Wing Tsun "is" Kung-Fu. The latter term is just a generic word for most Chinese martial arts of which Wing Tsun is just one. What does flappy mean?

I am not saying the arts were similar, just that they seemed to share a common principle and this opinion was just based on something I saw on TV so it is just my impression. I could be wrong and am open to correction.

I agree with Columok that all arts will take account of distancing, just some arts will look at an element of their art in a specific way and give it a term. An example would be "Kuzushi" in Judo, where you keep an opponent off balance so that he could easily be controlled and thrown. (Gracie: Mastering Ju-Jitsu, 2003) Which is better? Depends on the culture.

Regards,

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

edges

If it's weapon work you want, you can't go wrong with FMA. Scuttery already posted a few places, here it is again to reiterate

Yep as opposed to when I started there's now a clatter of places offering FMA.
There's Doce Pares in Pearse street and Nth Brunswick st (http://www.wildgeesema.com/)
There's the bould Mick O'Learys friend Nick in Molesworth street (http://www.wingtsun-escrima.ie/) & then there's us no website yet but if you follow this link it gives our details (http://www.im2lazy.com/index1.html).
Go have a gander at these places and see if it's what you want.
All the best

There is also an Iaido class in the the Martial Arts Academy, Pearse st on a monday, 8pm. I think their website is www.iaido.ie

Have a look around, you'll eventually see something you like

Good Luck

Dave
www.wildgeesema.com