Stargate: Atlantis - 3x05 - Progeny [SPOILERS]

ixoy

45 - that used to be my old house number. It's also the episode number of this latest Stargate:Atlantis installment. How was it for ye?

ixoy

Average - Not lightin' up my Ha'tak, but it'll do

So here's the new Wraith-whupping enemy... and it's a version of the old Replicators that we thought all wiped out in "Threads"...

Thing is, I mostly liked this episode. It was good to see them threatened again by the old potential-friend-turns-foe trick. A foe with real meat to their name. That got, once more, PO'ed when the humans turned up and stirred their nest (much like the Genii, Ori, etc.).

McKay was in cracking form this week - loved his "seven minutes and 31 seconds" jibe and ranting about how he should just do all the missions himself

The only problem really is that... we've seen this enemy before. We beat them. Oh sure there'll be cosmetic differences but the Replicators-as-human? Seen it. One who wants to help them but they're forced to betray him? Anyone remember Fifth? That's the biggest flaw in an otherwise snapping episode but a potential worrisome one if they thread "Threads" ground too much.

Time will tell where this new arc is going..

Venom

Poor - Should be a Lot Better

Was ok but nothing special. The whole Replicators angle was kinda lame but I got the impression it was a different kind of Replicator race to what we saw in SG1.

GerardKeating

Poor - Should be a Lot Better

Venom wrote:

Was ok but nothing special. The whole Replicators angle was kinda lame but I got the impression it was a different kind of Replicator race to what we saw in SG1.

The dialogue clearly establishes them as a seperately evolved "replicator".

The whole plot sounded like they went next door and borrowed some BSG scripts....

Venom

Poor - Should be a Lot Better

GerardKeating wrote:

The dialogue clearly establishes them as a seperately evolved "replicator".

The whole plot sounded like they went next door and borrowed some BSG scripts....

Agreed. And while I really want a proper villain/race of villains to replace the sad as **** Wraith these bozo's ain't it. All the really good villains in SG1 had a huge coolness factor along with the evil as hell gig going down but Atlantis just has mediocre wanna be bad guys.

Like come on, if your the evil leader of a techno organic race who can control you molecular design and are hell bent on revenge , why would you decide to look like a short balding fat guy?

DingChavez

Good - A worthy sister show still

Venom wrote:

Agreed. And while I really want a proper villain/race of villains to replace the sad as **** Wraith these bozo's ain't it. All the really good villains in SG1 had a huge coolness factor along with the evil as hell gig going down but Atlantis just has mediocre wanna be bad guys.

Like come on, if your the evil leader of a techno organic race who can control you molecular design and are hell bent on revenge , why would you decide to look like a short balding fat guy?

Short? David Ogden Stiers is 6' 4" according to IMDB.....

Vulture

Average - Not lightin' up my Ha'tak, but it'll do

Venom wrote:

Like come on, if your the evil leader of a techno organic race who can control you molecular design and are hell bent on revenge , why would you decide to look like a short balding fat guy?

What/who would you choose to look like, Ronan maybe? I could not take Ronan as a bad guy seriously unless it was a mad max setting. Scars and disfigurement are out of the question, he could look like a ninja if he wanted but then you would be unable to see him untill he killed you and everyone you know. If he looked like Cristopher walken (6 feet) then i'd be impressed, all the people that faced him would have to wear diapers or bring lots of clean underwear.

madmike18

Good - A worthy sister show still

i think this was a good episode,

now the fact is that they are not the same replicators. that is just what they do (replicate).

now we have an enemy that is proberly the second worse in the hole show including stargate sg-1.

now if you think about it because makay got rid of the agression directive. that means one of them if not all might asscend and if they do that means it would be like another anubis.

saying that i have to included the fact:

the reason anubis was only sent back halfway was because oma was being punished for her mistake.

who is going to get punished now if one of them asscend on there own.

but over all it was a good episode,

and we learn that there is an even worse enemy out there then the wraith.

Nukem

If this is the new and better baddies boring!
Didnt like the replicators too much, dont the Asgard have the one that made the first insect replicator, surely they shoulda relised it was ancient design. Too many plot holes,hope it gets better!

is_that_so

Poor - Should be a Lot Better

Yep touch of the SG-1-itis here. Making it up as we go along. Makes me hanker after Colm Meaney chewing the furniture. Unconvincing episode, probably the weakest of the season so far.

User45701

Good - A worthy sister show still

ixoy wrote:

So here's the new Wraith-whupping enemy... and it's a version of the old Replicators that we thought all wiped out in "Threads"...

Thing is, I mostly liked this episode. It was good to see them threatened again by the old potential-friend-turns-foe trick. A foe with real meat to their name. That got, once more, PO'ed when the humans turned up and stirred their nest (much like the Genii, Ori, etc.).

McKay was in cracking form this week - loved his "seven minutes and 31 seconds" jibe and ranting about how he should just do all the missions himself

The only problem really is that... we've seen this enemy before. We beat them. Oh sure there'll be cosmetic differences but the Replicators-as-human? Seen it. One who wants to help them but they're forced to betray him? Anyone remember Fifth? That's the biggest flaw in an otherwise snapping episode but a potential worrisome one if they thread "Threads" ground too much.

Time will tell where this new arc is going..

i have to say ixoy i disagree
the introcution of the replicators means that noone can complain anymore about the same old season endings for every SGA season ender "oh no the wraith are comming"

also i tyhink he was ment to resemble 5th so i wouldent say its a flaw in the episodes i think its important storyline info because 5th and your man in this 1 where both very human replicators and mabe its a sign that replicators are beginning to advance or evolve possibly to the point of accention so then we have ori achients and accended replicators would be nice i think alos

like u said mckey was amazing i nthis episode very funny

reley wanted them to get 2 zpms tho

Pugsley

Average - Not lightin' up my Ha'tak, but it'll do

Not too sure what to make of this episode, some interesting twists, genuinely didnt expect the replicators one, but not very well executed as a whole, the episode was pretty much carried by McKay, was nice to see Wier get up and do something though, makes a change.

mcgarnicle

User45701 wrote:

i have to say ixoy i disagree
the introcution of the replicators means that noone can complain anymore about the same old season endings for every SGA season ender "oh no the wraith are comming"

also i tyhink he was ment to resemble 5th so i wouldent say its a flaw in the episodes i think its important storyline info because 5th and your man in this 1 where both very human replicators and mabe its a sign that replicators are beginning to advance or evolve possibly to the point of accention so then we have ori achients and accended replicators would be nice i think alos

like u said mckey was amazing i nthis episode very funny

reley wanted them to get 2 zpms tho

How do you work that out? The guy was approaching ascension but as was explicitly pointed out his violent traits were holding him back, honestly this was made glaringly clear. At the end of the episode he got reset, as in reset to a point before he was calm, relaxed and close to ascenion (hence the attempt to strangle Weir). So he didn't ascend and he isn't going to ascend either. As for 5th he was human like and then he got tricked, the plot was to show how humans can be evil etc, it had nothing to do with ascending replicators, where did you get that from?

Anyway as for the episode, it was ok I in that we got to see a big ancient style city and a load of ancient ships but apart from that it was pretty stupid.

mcgarnicle

madmike18 wrote:

i think this was a good episode,

now the fact is that they are not the same replicators. that is just what they do (replicate).

now we have an enemy that is proberly the second worse in the hole show including stargate sg-1.

now if you think about it because makay got rid of the agression directive. that means one of them if not all might asscend and if they do that means it would be like another anubis.

saying that i have to included the fact:

the reason anubis was only sent back halfway was because oma was being punished for her mistake.

who is going to get punished now if one of them asscend on there own.

but over all it was a good episode,

and we learn that there is an even worse enemy out there then the wraith.

The only one that was close to ascension was reset by his own people before he could ascend, ie the aggresive part that McKay took out was put back in, that's why he tried to kill Weir. None of them are going to ascend therefore nobody will be punished.

User45701

Good - A worthy sister show still

i wasent trying to say he did acend i am trying to say that some replictors (2 out of countless billions) have shows signs of "goodness" i was aying its only a matter of time till more do and it may be possible for replicator assenton thats all isaid i think im not reley sure nemore

mcgarnicle

But they can only ascend if they are good, so if they do manage to ascend there is no harm in it.

Pugsley

Average - Not lightin' up my Ha'tak, but it'll do

mcgarnicle wrote:

But they can only ascend if they are good

Ori?

mcgarnicle

Pugsley wrote:

Ori?

I know but in this case it was made pretty clear that the road they are taking to ascension is the same road the ancients took, meaning they have to be good to accomplish it. That's why the good Assuran (can't remember his name) wasn't able to ascent before Rodney took out the violent aspects of his programming.

Ivan

Average - Not lightin' up my Ha'tak, but it'll do

I always assumed that the Ori ascended and then were corrupted by the power they received, hence becoming 'bad'.

Anyone got any proof/canon to the contrary?

mcgarnicle

Ivan wrote:

I always assumed that the Ori ascended and then were corrupted by the power they received, hence becoming 'bad'.

Anyone got any proof/canon to the contrary?

Well it's been aluded to that the ancients left their original home because the ori tried to wipe them out. The split came because the ancients wanted to follow science, can't remember what the ori wanted to follow. This was before the ancients came to our galaxy for the first time and millions of years before they learned to ascend. I'm assuming that the ori, who were not as attached to science as the ancients, would have taken longer to figure out how to ascend so they probably werent ascended when this split occured. Meaning they were pretty evil before they ascended.
I could be wrong though

User45701

Good - A worthy sister show still

Ye i aways thought it was a kind off science vs evil thing
also tbh i kinda thought that this would be propaganda the ori are bad but devoted to there religion and oh no the ori sent in a suicide bomber type of thing

slade_x

Ivan wrote:

I always assumed that the Ori ascended and then were corrupted by the power they received, hence becoming 'bad'.

Anyone got any proof/canon to the contrary?

As far as i can make out and this is just my view on what i see happening in the series, they were all once on the same path at some point they diverged and opposed each other. The alterans believing firmly in free will, when they ascended they retained that mentality and never interfere with the affairs of others.

The newly formed Ori from the original alteran society took the religious path. (whatever that original belief was i dont think we will ever know). Over their differences the ORI (still human) felt very strongly about faith and felt even stronger about those that would not embrace religion, The alterans being who they are choose the furtherment of their existance with science.

As we know from what daniel jackson has apparently figured out was that the alterans were struck with a plague that threatened to wipe them out so they left the milky way and sought refuge in the pegasus galaxy. I can only assume that it was the ORI that created the plague to kill of the non believers (that being the alterans) the plague we now see them using to infect people who dont comply with them, only im sure its much more potent now considering what the ORI now are.

Now here's what i think Origin is about;
The ORI being the religious believers they are probably associate their ascended status with their belief in religion, and since being the first human life on earth they believe they are the ancestors of all human life and all humans in existance anywhere that once originated on earth should now worship them as they have achieved such power and believe they are omnipitent beings.

And of course the reason they want more power through human worshipping is to eventually overwhelm the now ascended Alterans (The Ancients) in order to destroy them for abandoning the path that the still human ORI once started.

Secondly, the path of ascension doesn't discriminate against a religiously emposed sense of good or evil as there's no such thing. Anubis ascended with the help of oma desala just like daniel jackson did, only after finding out anubis's true intensions tried to banish him and insisted that all Goaul'd can not ascend, and so why at keb bre'tac had to relinquish the symbiote within him before he could seek true enlightenment

User45701

Good - A worthy sister show still

Well thought ut good points makes sence but heres one thing the univerce is huge how do we know that the ancients and ori are the only accended beings?
perhaps there is a 3rd accended faction from another galaxy or mabe human form replicators will learn how to accend and become a 3rd accended faction

slade_x

User45701 wrote:

Well thought ut good points makes sence but heres one thing the univerce is huge how do we know that the ancients and ori are the only accended beings?
perhaps there is a 3rd accended faction from another galaxy or mabe human form replicators will learn how to accend and become a 3rd accended faction

I never said there wasn't or couldn't be, the subject matter is the ori and the ancients regardless of what will or could have happened anywhere else in the stargate universe

senordingdong

Average - Not lightin' up my Ha'tak, but it'll do

It is correct that the Ori became 'corrupted' after their ascension.
They do genuinly think they are the gods of the original Alteran galaxy because they unleashed the Ori plague on it, the smart ones left, the rest died. The galaxy was then void of life so the Ori used one of those machines we saw in 'Reckoning' to re-seed the galaxy. Hence how the Ori did create life in that galaxy and how there are artifacts the predate the inhabitants creation at the same time.

Now...as for the episode.
Very good....untill we found out about the replicators.
It was original, well written, really going somewhere and with some great performances by Weir and McKay. The Asurans were doing great.

Then they admitted the replicator thing with a great big kick of un-oiginality to the face and that just made me angry.
I knew this was coming and wasn't looking forward to it but I will admit that the episode was entertaining to watch. They did ad a new angle and I will probably come to accept it but this wreaks of lazy writing and smelly plot holes. I mean HUGE smelly plot holes...with stink lines and everything.

Now I can't decide what my decision in the poll should be...do I vote good because it was an entertaining episode or do I vote bad because of the lazy writing.

Kojak

Average - Not lightin' up my Ha'tak, but it'll do

This was a reasonably good episode. The computer graphics were excellent. The replicators storyline, while introducing a new "bad guy" was kinda going over old ground again. I mean weren't they supposed to be destroyed at the end of season 8 with the ancient device at taka'ra???

Why didn't Sheppard and his team use one of the jumper's torpedos (for want of a better word) to kill the human-form replicator. It had to be obvious that they could survive without oxygen.

Ronan seemed to have toned down a bit since last week and I liked the bit at the start where he was limping -it showed continuation from last weeks episode.

All in all a pretty good episode.

senordingdong

Average - Not lightin' up my Ha'tak, but it'll do

Kojak wrote:

I mean weren't they supposed to be destroyed at the end of season 8 with the ancient device at taka'ra???

Yeah, but keep in mind they were only able to dial Stargates in our galaxy simaltaneously and the replicators came from another galaxy originally.This was pointed out at the time though.
I'm just annoyed that they had to bring them into Atlantis (though they did say that the Asurans were the original intended enemy of Pegasus) instead of leaving them in the Asgaurd galaxy, where we lead to believe they originated from. Oh no, wait...the android Reese was from the Milky Way...hang on...but....oh plot holes!

Kojak wrote:

Why didn't Sheppard and his team use one of the jumper's torpedos (for want of a better word) to kill the human-form replicator. It had to be obvious that they could survive without oxygen.

Yeah...that also bugged me. More poor writing.

I also didn't like the whole 'This is like a mission Sg-1 blah blah blah'...it's as annoying as Mitchel constantly saying 'Oh...I read the report.'

senordingdong

Average - Not lightin' up my Ha'tak, but it'll do

Actually...I think it would have been good if they allied with the replicators...after neutralising their angry buzz, and they turned out to be really nice.

Kojak

Average - Not lightin' up my Ha'tak, but it'll do

senordingdong wrote:

Actually...I think it would have been good if they allied with the replicators...after neutralising their angry buzz, and they turned out to be really nice.

Possibly, but this could also be looked at as extremely lazy writing. What would be even better is if they (McKay) could upload another programme into the replicators (the ones in the mega-city) so that they would stop again. Then a group of Atlantis personnel could gut the city and take possibly 10 ZPM's with them.

Sure the "others" already know everything that happened and will be out for revenge. It would be best, IMO, if Atlantis were to leave them defenceless - for the time being at least

senordingdong

Average - Not lightin' up my Ha'tak, but it'll do

That would be a good plot. A great idea for a story...seeing the team go on the offensive like. In reference to the other thing you said

The Asurans are on their way apparently.

As for my idea...what I had in mind wasn't like allying with the Goa'uld or anything/....like, they reprogamme the Asurans and suddenly they're good, genuinley. They would then help in the fight against the Wrait but would ultimatly fail for some well written reason or another.
Just a thought since it would be an original twist to familiar character.

Overheal

User45701 wrote:

Well thought ut good points makes sence but heres one thing the univerce is huge how do we know that the ancients and ori are the only accended beings?
perhaps there is a 3rd accended faction from another galaxy or mabe human form replicators will learn how to accend and become a 3rd accended faction

so THATS where the Ferlings are

'Arbitrary numbers' McKay...instant classic.