DTT Broadcasting Contract Applicants (9 of them)

Sponge Bob

Lots more interest than the last time around. I see RTÉ have teamed up with Eircom . That will be hard to beat .

Full list and other stuff here

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/news.nv?storyid=single6880

1. BT Ireland,
2. Channel 6,
3. Chellomedia Services,
4. Communicorp Group,
5. Magnet Networks,
6. a joint bid from RTÉ and Eircom,
7. Sky Ireland,
8. TVONE Broadband Media and
9. USP Ireland.

No significant player missing there apart from Irish Broadband I suppose

Normal eircom policy applies so roll on the 16 kilobit signal per channel in rural areas while the urbanites get 4 Mbits .

Richard

Sponge Bob wrote:

Lots more interest than the last time around. I see RTÉ have teamed up with Eircom . That will be hard to beat .

Full list and other stuff here

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/news.nv?storyid=single6880



No significant player missing there apart from Irish Broadband I suppose

Normal eircom policy applies so roll on the 16 kilobit signal per channel in rural areas while the urbanites get 4 Mbits .

Interesting. Sky was, of course, not allowed to be involved in UK DTT at the outset (it originally owned on third of OnDigital). I wonder what BT's motives are.

byte

Same story here:
http://www.electricnews.net/news.html?code=9766057

Sponge Bob

just to clarify

BT have the technology contract, radios and stuff

This is the content management and 'billing' (if applicable) customers contract. Bet BT will not get that

10000maniacs

Are there any Government guidelines on how much the service is going to cost, I don't see a company like Magnet providing the service for €80 a year when they are charging nearly ten times that for their "TV through a phone-line" package.
Also, how many of the DT channels will be "free to air" and will there be any of the UK channels FTA.
Surely this has to be rolled out like the Freeview setup in the UK.

L1011

Well, as theres no idea whatsoever if there'll be any pay services whatsoever yet, there can't really be guidelines as to pricing can there? We could easily end up with all nine muxes full of FTA channels...

byte

Sunday Times wrote:

New names in the digital game

The list of applicants to manage the programming content of the government’s upcoming digital terrestrial television (DTT) trial threw up a few interesting names.

The usual suspects are in the frame, including Sky, RTE and NTL/Chorus’ parent Liberty Global via the London-based entity Chellomedia Services.

Another — less familiar — applicant for the gig was a Dublin firm called USP Ireland, with Ivan Nolan as its contact. A search for USP Ireland in the Companies Registration Office drew a blank, although a firm called Digital Audio Productions (DAP) is registered at the same address.

DAP is a radio content provider that syndicates material to the likes of 98FM, Today FM and Shannonside. It has legendary former 2FM and Atlantic 252 DJ Dusty Rhodes at the helm.

And Dusty’s real name? Ivan Nolan, the one and only. Not content with pushing the agenda for digital radio, it seems Dusty wants to get in on the digital televison act too when the analogue signal is finally switched off in 2012.

Also in the mix is a brand-new company called TVOne Broadband Media, located in Dublin’s digital hub. The company was set up earlier this year and is headed by the Icelander Holmgeir Baldursson. It has already put together four different content packages which it hopes to market to Internet Protocol TelevisionV (IPTV) players such as Magnet later this year. The channels include Lonestar – The Western Channel and The Really Terrible Film Channel.

Link: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,2769-2309784,00.html

Hmm, Dusty Rhodes eh?

triple-play

A lot will depend on the terms of the licence from ComReg. There is usually a restriction on the revenue that can be generated and is normally limited to cost recovery. ComReg also put a limit on the number of trialists (1000).

What will be very interesting is to see what content is put up on the mux and whether they will try MPEG4 encoding. If they think it is going to be straight forward to get UK content they will be sorely mistaken. A content owner that values their content is not going to allow it to be used in a trial free of charge which could last for 2 years. They'll have no problem getting shopping channels and GOD TV but beyond that it could be a little tricky. As for the UK FTA channels... snowballs chance in hell unless the DCMNR has done a deal with the UK Govt -and if they have Sky and UPC will be taking them to court real fast.

L1011

Under what grounds? Sky have a non-exclusive deal to pay the BBC ~3 euros per month per subscriber to provide two channels to Ireland; and UPC have a non exclusive deal with the BBC, ITV Network and Channel 4 to provide channels. None of them would have -any- ability to prevent said channels going on another platform. Chorus analogue is dying on its feet due to FTA satellite, have they sued ITV Network for going FTA? Oh, no, sorry - they can't.

triple-play

You miss understand my point. If this is a free trial, who will pay the BBC, ITV, C4, etc for their content? In Ireland BBC1 & 2 could cost the platform operator around 20EUR per sub per annum. If there are 1000 trialists then that will cost the operator 20k and that's only for 2 channels. The Govt can decide to pay these costs or try to avoid this cost by striking a deal with the UK authorities. My point was that if this happened then the other platforms could take legal action.

bk

Firstly both the BBC and UTV are guaranteed space on DTT per the last Broadcasting act. It is part of cross border co-operation and it is the reason why RTE and TG4 are both available up North.

UTV would probably jump at the chance to be on DTT. They have more viewers and make more money in the Republic then up North. They would love to be on DTT to increase their advertsing revenue here. TV3 would be the only obstacle to this.

C4 and C5 might also like to enter the Irish market with Irish ads.

Yes I can see why the BBC might not be interested as there would be no money in it for them. However the UK government might ask them to do it in order to balance the availabiltiy of RTE and TG4 up north.

L1011

triple-play wrote:

You miss understand my point. If this is a free trial, who will pay the BBC, ITV, C4, etc for their content? In Ireland BBC1 & 2 could cost the platform operator around 20EUR per sub per annum. If there are 1000 trialists then that will cost the operator 20k and that's only for 2 channels. The Govt can decide to pay these costs or try to avoid this cost by striking a deal with the UK authorities. My point was that if this happened then the other platforms could take legal action.

No, I understood your point entirely. If the BCI/DCMNR arrange a non-exclusive zero-cost deal to carry BBC, UTV and Channel 4, companies who have similarly non-exclusive deals would have no comeback, whatsoever.

As it is, they've known about the possibility of the UK channels being free on DTT here since 1998, because the original DTT plan states that the state may recover a multiplex for free carraige of UK terrestrial channels.

triple-play

MYOB wrote:

No, I understood your point entirely. If the BCI/DCMNR arrange a non-exclusive zero-cost deal to carry BBC, UTV and Channel 4, companies who have similarly non-exclusive deals would have no comeback, whatsoever.

As it is, they've known about the possibility of the UK channels being free on DTT here since 1998, because the original DTT plan states that the state may recover a multiplex for free carraige of UK terrestrial channels.

Section 9, (subsections 6, 7 and 8) of the Broadcasting Act 2001 deals with this issue. See http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2001/a401.pdf

The Minister may direct that capacity be reserved on a multiplex for TV services that are available throughout NI by terrestrial means. If the Minister does so direct then it cannot be revoked without being approved by both houses of the Oireachtas.
The convoluted wording in these sections was necessary because the Minister may not have the right to issue such a directive in the first instance because of programme content rights issues. It's not just the BBC/UTV and/or UK/Irish governments that have to agree, US rights holders of programmes carried on those channels also have to agree.

A deal could be struck for the UK FTA channels to be on Irish DTT but who would pay for transmission costs, the BBC or DCMNR? And if I were UPC and saw that the DCMNR struck a deal where they did not have to pay for carraige/transmission costs for UK FTA channels and the same terms were not available to me (which they aren't as UPC pay for retransmission of UK channels in Ireland) then I would think legal action is a definite possibility as it can be suggested that the state were unfairly subsidising a competing platform.

I'm no expert but I do think there is scope for competing platforms to make life difficult for DTT if the Government are seen to be giving the platform an unfair advantage particularly in terms of services that other platforms are paying for.

byte

Well, even if they did have to pay, I'd doubt it would be much more than 5euro per household? Maybe add a fiver to the license fee for this?

L1011

triple-play wrote:

Section 9, (subsections 6, 7 and 8) of the Broadcasting Act 2001 deals with this issue. See http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2001/a401.pdf

The Minister may direct that capacity be reserved on a multiplex for TV services that are available throughout NI by terrestrial means. If the Minister does so direct then it cannot be revoked without being approved by both houses of the Oireachtas.
The convoluted wording in these sections was necessary because the Minister may not have the right to issue such a directive in the first instance because of programme content rights issues. It's not just the BBC/UTV and/or UK/Irish governments that have to agree, US rights holders of programmes carried on those channels also have to agree.

A deal could be struck for the UK FTA channels to be on Irish DTT but who would pay for transmission costs, the BBC or DCMNR? And if I were UPC and saw that the DCMNR struck a deal where they did not have to pay for carraige/transmission costs for UK FTA channels and the same terms were not available to me (which they aren't as UPC pay for retransmission of UK channels in Ireland) then I would think legal action is a definite possibility as it can be suggested that the state were unfairly subsidising a competing platform.

I'm no expert but I do think there is scope for competing platforms to make life difficult for DTT if the Government are seen to be giving the platform an unfair advantage particularly in terms of services that other platforms are paying for.

Have you not considered that the UK channels have -no rights issues- with Ireland because everybody who has ever sold them rights knows damn well that 85% of us receive them? Channel 4 even -tell- rights holders that their service area is the UK and Ireland.

There is no chance, whatsoever, that cable or satellite providers could prevent the UK terrestrials being gifted broadcast space here, at all. UPC pay for retranmission rights, -not- capacity rights. Capacity costs is all that would be a matter here. Because it can be taken as a given that the state aren't going to pay for more than capacity for the channels - they're not going to pay for rights.

triple-play

MYOB wrote:

Have you not considered that the UK channels have -no rights issues- with Ireland because everybody who has ever sold them rights knows damn well that 85% of us receive them? Channel 4 even -tell- rights holders that their service area is the UK and Ireland.

There is no chance, whatsoever, that cable or satellite providers could prevent the UK terrestrials being gifted broadcast space here, at all. UPC pay for retranmission rights, -not- capacity rights. Capacity costs is all that would be a matter here. Because it can be taken as a given that the state aren't going to pay for more than capacity for the channels - they're not going to pay for rights.

RTE has paid for the terrestrial rights for content in Ireland while ITV/BBC/C4 has paid for in some cases the same content but for the UK market. RTE will not sit back and watch their investment go down the tubes. They will not allow a UK channel to broadcast in Ireland on terrestrial TV (at no cost to the UK channel, and possibly even be paid) while RTE has to also pay for their transmission costs on the DTT platform. Do you really think te DCMNR will stick it to RTE like that? And do you not think that TV3 will go legal if UTV is allowed broadcast on DTT when they have not paid for the content rights for ROI?

L1011

How do you know they've not bought secondary rights for Ireland? Channel 4 have, doesn't stop RTE buying the same rights on the primary basis. ITV and the BBC would bought have been sued an incredibly long time ago by the rights holders for their wilful carraige on every multichannel system in the entire country.

We -know- Channel 4 has Irish rights, its generally safe to assume the others do despite the FUD people attempt to sling.

byte

Where RTE and the UK channels both buy rights to the same shows, RTE do show the programmes before the UK channels, sometimes by a few weeks ahead. So, it may not be all bad.

triple-play

MYOB wrote:

How do you know they've not bought secondary rights for Ireland? Channel 4 have, doesn't stop RTE buying the same rights on the primary basis. ITV and the BBC would bought have been sued an incredibly long time ago by the rights holders for their wilful carraige on every multichannel system in the entire country.

We -know- Channel 4 has Irish rights, its generally safe to assume the others do despite the FUD people attempt to sling.

UK channels are not broadcast on analogue terrestrial in Ireland. RTE & TV3 have bought content rights to analogue terrestrial not cable or satellite platforms so they have no grounds for legal action against UPC or Sky. However if for example UTV began broadcasting on terrestrial in ROI they would be forced to blackout content where the rights are held by RTE or TV3 in ROI. Right now, RTE has to blackout some of their content in NI because of content rights issues (eg like World Cup coverage and the Premiership).

L1011

That would be because RTE have never negotiated rights on the basis of them having wide coverage in Northern Ireland. They do, but thats a side issue - you ever seen ads for a Northern Irish entity on RTE? No, because they don't take any.

BBC/UTV/C4 have a history of 30+/30+/24 years of being on Irish cable, 18 of MMDS and have long since taken ads (in the case of UTV/C4) for Ireland. They could never deny they have major Irish audiences, and at least C4's programme rights are explicitly cleared for Ireland.

You appear to think everything is as clear cut as "UK channel, UK rights". Its not. There is no way they'd be on cable/MMDS/sat in BBC's case if they were not legally capable of doing so. And they are, and they are similarly legally capable of being on DTT, in the clear here; and there will be no way in hell a cable company could take anyone to court over it

triple-play

MYOB wrote:

That would be because RTE have never negotiated rights on the basis of them having wide coverage in Northern Ireland. They do, but thats a side issue - you ever seen ads for a Northern Irish entity on RTE? No, because they don't take any.

BBC/UTV/C4 have a history of 30+/30+/24 years of being on Irish cable, 18 of MMDS and have long since taken ads (in the case of UTV/C4) for Ireland. They could never deny they have major Irish audiences, and at least C4's programme rights are explicitly cleared for Ireland.

You appear to think everything is as clear cut as "UK channel, UK rights". Its not. There is no way they'd be on cable/MMDS/sat in BBC's case if they were not legally capable of doing so. And they are, and they are similarly legally capable of being on DTT, in the clear here; and there will be no way in hell a cable company could take anyone to court over it

I am not disagreeing with you about cable/MMDS/sat. Clearly uk channels are on cable/MMDS/sat in Ireland and there are no conflicting rights issues. There would be conflicting rights issues if they were to go onto the DTT platform. Irish FTA channels do not buy exclusive rights for cable.
Why do you think RTE is encrypted on Sky and is not present on FreeSat which is not encrypted? Because they have paid for a certain level of content rights which does not cover the UK.

L1011

Its encrypted on Sky because they were not going to go on satellite and got offered a totally free ride by Sky, that is why. Nothing more. The annual carraige costs for the 4 TV + 4 radio channels RTE Networks uplink is zero euros. Stop trying to read in problems that aren't there.

And yes, I already said RTE don't have UK rights.

triple-play

MYOB wrote:

Its encrypted on Sky because they were not going to go on satellite and got offered a totally free ride by Sky, that is why. Nothing more. The annual carraige costs for the 4 TV + 4 radio channels RTE Networks uplink is zero euros. Stop trying to read in problems that aren't there.

And yes, I already said RTE don't have UK rights.

Okay so RTE don't broadcast in the UK because they don't have the rights. Then you would agree that BBC/ITV/C4 couldn't be broadcast in ROI unless they have rights? Are they on cable because that is classed as retransmission under TVWF and there are no rights conflicts? But that there are conflict rights on DTT?

SPDUB

triple-play wrote:

UK channels are not broadcast on analogue terrestrial in Ireland. RTE & TV3 have bought content rights to analogue terrestrial not cable or satellite platforms so they have no grounds for legal action against UPC or Sky. However if for example UTV began broadcasting on terrestrial in ROI they would be forced to blackout content where the rights are held by RTE or TV3 in ROI. Right now, RTE has to blackout some of their content in NI because of content rights issues (eg like World Cup coverage and the Premiership).

Only if RTE or TV3 objected as was the case with C5 over "Home and Away"

I haven't heard of C5 objecting to RTE showing "Joey" first even though C5 have the rights for UK

triple-play

SPDUB wrote:

Only if RTE or TV3 objected as was the case with C5 over "Home and Away"

I haven't heard of C5 objecting to RTE showing "Joey" first even though C5 have the rights for UK

RTE is not available in the UK and they would not have bought the rights to Joey for the UK. Although RTE is available on Sky they are encrypted and only Irish Sky subscribers can receive RTE's signal.

L1011

triple-play wrote:

Okay so RTE don't broadcast in the UK because they don't have the rights. Then you would agree that BBC/ITV/C4 couldn't be broadcast in ROI unless they have rights? Are they on cable because that is classed as retransmission under TVWF and there are no rights conflicts? But that there are conflict rights on DTT?

You're bringing up a strawman of rights again. There are no rights issues As I already said, we know for a fact Channel 4 has no rights issues. Similarly, the BBC clears rights on the basis of any transmission mode being acceptable - it - as in BBC 1/2/3/4, not the European services are available on cable in parts of Europe that haven't had a hope in hell of getting signals to retransmit since the Band 1 405-line services closed in 1985, Luxembourg for instance.

ITV may not have the rights for some of their imports - erm, what imports though? Since they started showing quiz shows half the day, I believe all their content is their own.

And what makes DTT retransmission any different from cable or satellite or most particularly MMDS? I believe you'll find nothing at all.

SPDUB

triple-play wrote:

RTE is not available in the UK and they would not have bought the rights to Joey for the UK. Although RTE is available on Sky they are encrypted and only Irish Sky subscribers can receive RTE's signal.

I never said that.Read what I wrote

C5 objected to RTE transmitting "Home and Away" first because they had the UK and NI rights so got it blocked on NTL and SkY in NI

However in the case of "Joey" where once again RTE have been transmitting it ahead of C5 I haven't heard any reports of C5 objecting and getting it blocked even though once again the have the UK and NI right

So a programme isn't automatically blocked just because someone else has the rights

watty

triple-play wrote:

Okay so RTE don't broadcast in the UK because they don't have the rights. Then you would agree that BBC/ITV/C4 couldn't be broadcast in ROI unless they have rights? Are they on cable because that is classed as retransmission under TVWF and there are no rights conflicts? But that there are conflict rights on DTT?

UK market is at least 15 times size of Irish market. You can't equate RTE in UK with BBC/UTV in Ireland.

Besides almost 25% of Ireland was watching BBC & ITV BEFORE RTE even started.

It was I think only in 1970s that HolyHill Donegal/Derry border, Longford and Claremont Cairn (Down/Louth Border) was added to give RTE coverage in NI.

bk

triple-play wrote:

Why do you think RTE is encrypted on Sky and is not present on FreeSat which is not encrypted? Because they have paid for a certain level of content rights which does not cover the UK.

I'm sorry but this just goes to show your lack of knowledge of the Irish TV market. RTE is encrypted on Sky, as Sky offered RTE free satellite space, excellent EPG position and free encryption, all stuff that usually cost a lot of money, if RTE agreed to be exclusively encrypted on Sky. RTE saves a lot of money by doing this and Sky gains an important channels to it's line up.

Everyone else here is correct. Routinely the BBC, ITV and C4 all secure the rights to all shows for both the UK and Ireland. They usually get Ireland thrown in for free as they are such a large purchaser, Ireland is almost irrelevant next to the UK market. So there is absolutely nothing stopping them from broadcasting in Ireland.

BTW from a technical perspective, there is very little difference between DTT and MMDS. They are both digitally encoded signals over wireless. So if they are on MMDS there is no difference from them being on DTT.

lawhec

It was I think only in 1970s that HolyHill Donegal/Derry border, Longford and Claremont Cairn (Down/Louth Border) was added to give RTE coverage in NI.

RTÉ already had coverage in NI in the 1960's and 70's with Truskmore covering most of the west and Kippure covering parts of Armagh and Down. The Moville and Monaghan relays would also have enabled reception in parts as well.

watty

Pedantically Digital MMDS probabily is using DVB-c and UHF DTT uses DVB-t.

Either can be in the clear or encrypted like DVB-s (Satellite).

The transmission method is irrelvent.

watty

Forgot about Truskmore. Was/is it VHF though then/now?

L1011

Was and still is VHF for 1 and 2 to this day, was also a 405 line station.

watty

OK well not many folks in NI would have had/have VHF 625. VHF 405 though would be better range and doubt utilised 196x till 197x by some in NI.

lawhec

It's before my time so I can't comment from experience, just looking back on history. 405 line telly would have been near enough the only way to receive TV from BBC & UTV locally in Fermanagh & western Tyrone until around 77/78 as Brougher Mountain didn't broadcast colour until sep 78, which Strabane started sometime in 77. Of course, 405 from Truskmore closed down in summer 78 too. For many people in the 70's RTÉ was commonly received alongside BBC and UTV. First change to 625 would have been in a few sports on high ground in mid-tyrone and clogher valley which could receive Divis in the early 70's - not sure if the Monaghan relay was upgraded to 625 at the time, but to receive Truskmore would have required a vertically polarised VHF Band III aerial. You'd needed either a telly with a VHF tuner (known as "dual band" locally) or a VHF to UHF frequency shifter. The latter wern't common in the UK, sets from the Republic were often sought for the purpose. Many were rented, solving many headaches for viewers with most responsibility in the hyands of TV dealers. 405 line closedown from Truskmore gave some headaches. Those that could not afford to go 625 lost RTÉ until they eventually did a few years later. Those wanting to continue watching RTÉ along with the eventual RTÉ2 had to get new 625 line sets, haver their aerial for RTÉ adjusted for horizontal polarisation (for a brief while it was broadcasted mixed) and have a new aerial fitted in for UHF from Brougher or Strabane. Again with renting being popular, viewers simply swapped the 405 line sets with a new 625 line install in many cases in late 70's early 80's. By 1984, within 6 years, a changeover from 405 line to 625 line was over 99% complete, the very few left being those who had 405 line sets given by relatives or had bought them some time ago. I can recall seeing one 405 line set in action as a very young kid back in 1984, at least I think it was 405 lines, b/w 625 line sets were fairly common still in those days and indeed for a birthday of mine back in 1990 I got a 12 inch b/w TV for my bedroom as a present. It's gone now to silicon heaven, try imagining running Freeview box through it though!

zilog_jones

I think the issue is mainly with 'merkin shows. RTÉ seem to get all the big shows before the UK channels (even the satellite ones, except Sky One to an extent), so it's fine for those shows to be shown on UK channels relayed (by whatever means) over here, just not the other way round (except NI). I wouldn't be surprised if this is deliberately done by the US distributors or some magical deal with RTÉ so they don't lose out. UK shows on Irish channels may complicate things though, and there's the fact that TV3 prime time is like 80% identical to ITV.