Dogma vs Doctrine vs Conviction

BrianCalgary

Conviction: your opinion on things like drinking and dancing. You are convicted that alcohol shoul dnever be touched, but you would allow others to have a drink if they liked.

Doctrine: Items like communion allowing that it can be anywhere from symbolic to transubstantiation. Or baptism; sprinkle vs. dunk. Pre, post or a-millenial would fit into this category

Dogma: those items that would not be negotiable.

My dogmas would include the deity of Christ, the inerrancy of scripture, Christs as the only way for redemption of sin and reconciliation with God.

Dogma I would die for (ie. if someone held a gun to my head and said deny Christ's deity or I shoot my response would be: shoot), the others not so as important.

My question: what are your dogmas, what would you be prepared to die for?

Sapien

I have only one dogma: That I shall have no dogmas.

BrianCalgary

Sapien wrote:

I have only one dogma: That I shall have no dogmas.

Shouldn't it read: I have only one dogma: That I shall have only ONE dogma.:)

robindch

> You are convicted that alcohol shoul dnever be touched, but you would
> allow others to have a drink if they liked.

In the spirit of helpfulness, shouldn't that read "You are convinced..."?



and in answer to your question, there is no idea that I am prepared to die for. I simply view life as too valuable to throw away on somebody else's memetic inadequacies.

EDIT: In fact, on further reflection, I think the notion itself that there some idea is so unquestionable that declaring it to be false means that somebody has to die, is, to me at least, indistinguishable from total insanity. And I might say, suggests that the person holding the idea that this is ok, or even good, might be willing to sacrifice other lives than their own to propagate this unquestionable idea. What a horrible thought!

.

Wibbs

robindch wrote:

> You are convicted that alcohol shoul dnever be touched, but you would
> allow others to have a drink if they liked.

In the spirit of helpfulness, shouldn't that read "You are convinced..."?

Not in Saudi....

For me my karma ran over my dogma years ago.

Seriously, I can't think of a single belief that would have me die by denying it. Fair play to those who have. That's true faith. No doubt.

babyvaio

Conviction
There is One and only One Creator and He is not father, not son and not spirit.

Doctrine
There is One and only One The Most Merciful and He is not father, not son and not spirit.

Dogma
There is One and only One The Eternal and He is not father, not son and not spirit.

robindch

> There is One and only One [X]

Crumbs, you must have a great memory! I'd have to carry around that on a bit of paper to remind me of what was what. Or not, as the case seems to be.

babyvaio

robindch wrote:

> There is One and only One [X]

Crumbs, you must have a great memory! I'd have to carry around that on a bit of paper to remind me of what was what. Or not, as the case seems to be.

Why? You must love your wife, your girlfriend, kids if you have them etc. and you know so many things about them, but you don't put that knowledge about them on your neck, do you?

Dades

Dying to simply uphold a belief would be well, against my beliefs, that tell me there is nothing to believe - never mind one worth dying for.

Of course that is different than saying there is nobody I wouldn't die for. We'd all like to think we'd sacrifice ourselves for a loved one. Although I suggest that none of us can say for sure we would die for anything until the gun to your head is cocked and you give your final answer.

babyvaio

The Atheist wrote:

Dying to simply uphold a belief would be well, against my beliefs, that tell me there is nothing to believe - never mind one worth dying for.

Of course that is different than saying there is nobody I wouldn't die for. We'd all like to think we'd sacrifice ourselves for a loved one. Although I suggest that none of us can say for sure we would die for anything until the gun to your head is cocked and you give your final answer.

I agree, it's easy to say such a thing, however when you're looking at a canon, hmmm, people usually change their minds then..

John Doe

There is only one belief I would die rather than lose: that there is hope for humanity. I'd deny it rather than die (i.e. I'd be lying), but die rather than believe it to be false, because I don't think life would be worthwhile without it.

Asiaprod

If memory serves me well, did this topic not blaze brightly here for a few weeks courtesy of MOGSA and the AK47s?

Have to say I would like to think I could give my life for my family, but my wife would reply by just throwing the nearest heavy object at me and asking how would dying for her solve anything. Do I disrespect her so much as to happily die leaving her to face life on her own.
Damn, Japanese logic knows no bounds.

<runs to find a drink and an aspirin>

maitri

BrianCalgary wrote:

My dogmas would include the deity of Christ, the inerrancy of scripture, Christs as the only way for redemption of sin and reconciliation with God.

Dogma I would die for (ie. if someone held a gun to my head and said deny Christ's deity or I shoot my response would be: shoot), the others not so as important.

My question: what are your dogmas, what would you be prepared to die for?

To die for an idea – I don’t really get it. Why would you do that? Because you’d hope to convert the person with the gun to Christianity? Fear of Hell? Not to make God sorry? Because your beliefs is such a strong part of your identity that you cannot live without them? Because you trust the authorities that say you should be willing to die for that spesific idea?

You know, I just watched a documentary about a high-jacking in Alger and there was an interview with a stewardess who had pretended to convert to the high-jacker’s religion to calm him down – because when he became very upset – and he was very easily upset - he would take one of the passengers and kill him. I don’t know what her real faith was (I got the impression that maybe she didn’t have one), but she said that even though she respects people’s religions she felt no guilt whatsoever, because she faked conversion to save lives. Would you have done the same you think?

But your question, what – or who - would I die for? I don’t know, really. I think dying to save other people very often is something that happens spontaneously. It’s not so much a deliberate choice. If it was really the right and natural thing to do in the situation I hope I would die for anybody. But since I am not a very brave person, I wouldn’t bet my money on it to happen…

Asiaprod wrote:

Have to say I would like to think I could give my life for my family, but my wife would reply by just throwing the nearest heavy object at me and asking how would dying for her solve anything. Do I disrespect her so much as to happily die leaving her to face life on her own.
Damn, Japanese logic knows no bounds.

That’s not Japanese logic. That’s universal - good and sound! - woman’s logic. (And would be man’s logic as well, if men were logical… sorry! Just joking! )

Asiaprod wrote:

<runs to find a drink and an aspirin>

Reminds me of one of my teachers who always says - sadly: “Thinking hurts, nothing helps for that, not even whiskey.”

robindch

> “Thinking hurts, nothing helps for that, not even whiskey.”

“A pipe gives a wise man time to think and a fool something to stick in his mouth”.

Asiaprod

robindch wrote:

> “Thinking hurts, nothing helps for that, not even whiskey.”

“A pipe gives a wise man time to think and a fool something to stick in his mouth”.

Very original, I would patent it.

Asiaprod

maitri wrote:

That’s not Japanese logic. That’s universal - good and sound! - woman’s logic. (And would be man’s logic as well, if men were logical… sorry! Just joking! )

Very good, but men's logic is to appear to have no logic, which means woman’s logic can never get closure. Smart, Huh.

By the way, brilliant post. Some very interesting questions there.

PS, at least leave us our alcohol. It helps keep the balance.

<Sorry, off topic.>

Ayla

Personally, I think it's dangerous to have an "idea" or "dogma" for which you're willing to die.

What happens if later in your life you change your mind? Even those beliefs which you hold most dear could possibly change (I'm not saying it's likely, just possible)...then what? You would have sacrificed yourself for an idea which you no longer believe in.

Aren't we seeing enough in our world of people (of all beliefs and walks of life) who are willing to die for their dogma? How is that solving anything or bringing anyone closer together in a safe and healthy way? If anything, I would suggest it propagates a self-perpetuating cycle of pain and hatred.

So that brings us to the idea of dying for someone. This has been discussed earlier on this thread, and I have to agree with the wife who was upset b/c her husband so "generously" gave himself up and left his other alone for the rest of her life.

That said, if I was ever in the situation (which is pretty unlikely, but still,) that it was a matter of "me" or "my husband/child/etc" then I'd probably say me...although, again, until you're in the position, it's hard to know exactly what you'd say.

So does that make me into someone who just doesn't value any idea/dogma enough to die for it? I suppose you could say yes, but I would argue that no, I do value a lot, but enough to live for it.