In Ethiopia, all the boys hold hands!

Syth

A little light hearted thread. I'm just back from a charity stint in Africa. We spent 3 weeks in Ethiopia.

What would you think if you saw the following as you were walking down the street?




These guys are almost certainly straight.

What's going on you ask? Well, Ethiopian culture is very touchy feely. It's perfectly reasonable for 2 straight guys who are good mates to walk down the road holding hands. Girls do it as well, but not as much.

It was very funny, all the straight guys in our group were weired out a lot.

Unfortunatly Ethiopia (like much of Africa) is very homophobic. There's a death penalty for homosexual acts in some parts of Ethiopia AFAIK.

Some more photos here

damien

Holding hands is an Islamic/Arabic thing as is executing homosexuals. As we saw in the thread about those two kids that were executed in Iran around this time last year.

gaymale.ie

That’s so cute!, seriously though its amazing that any guy gay or straight would even take that risk especially in a country where they kill you for just being your gay old self as Allah intended.

Syth

gaymale.ie wrote:

That’s so cute!, seriously though its amazing that any guy gay or straight would even take that risk especially in a country where they kill you for just being your gay old self as Allah intended.

Ah that's the point. Those guys are straight. In Ethiopia it's not gay for 2 guys to walk down the street holding hands.

Ethiopia is going to be so freaked when they get more developed, more western and find out what that means to the western world.

And Ethiopia is pretty secular in some ways. They're about half christian, half muslim, so they learn to get on. They're really modern when it come to condoms and prostitution aswell.

Nevyn

Condoms have been used as far back as acient egypt and protitution for far longer why would these thing be considered to be modren ?
There were kingdoms and civilisation in Ethopia long before many parts of the west.

InFront

damien.m wrote:

Holding hands is an Islamic/Arabic thing as is executing homosexuals. As we saw in the thread about those two kids that were executed in Iran around this time last year.

they kill you for just being your gay old self as Allah intended.

Firstly, yes, holding hands and bodily contact with other men is very normal in Arab and wider Muslim countries. I find it strange that people here in the 'liberated' west have a problem with men holding hands or hugging or see it as impolite or something.

Secondly, executing homosexuals is not "an Islamic thing", and I think that is a very unfair and presumptuous statement to make if you do not understand the full account of the Qur'an's approach to dealing with people, such as homosexual, who do not practice the norms of society.

In Islam, you must understand that being gay itself is not a sin, it is the practivce of gay relations that is abhorrent to Allah. I think this page will explain it better than I.

homosexuality and Islam

Santa Claus

Thaedydal wrote:

Condoms have been used as far back as acient egypt

Yes, but in fairness the condoms back then were made of animal/fish intestines or hide....I think the OP was expressing suprise that condom use was so prevalant in a 3rd world society !

damien

InFront wrote:

Secondly, executing homosexuals is not "an Islamic thing", and I think that is a very unfair and presumptuous statement to make if you do not understand the full account of the Qur'an's approach to dealing with people, such as homosexual, who do not practice the norms of society.

So hanging two kids for being gay, is this right or wrong in Islam?

I've read the Qur'an, like I've read the bible, like I've read the Torah. I've read what the Qur'an says about homosexuals and homosexual activity. The viewpoint of the majority and those who hung the two kids is if you're a fag then you die. There are interpretations that allow you to live but they are not held by the vast majority at all.

Trying to distinguish homosexuals and homosexual "activities" is like saying it's not a sin to be male but it is a sin to leave the toilet seat up. Being male is not a sin but male activites are. What horse****.

InFront

damien.m wrote:

So hanging two kids for being gay, is this right or wrong in Islam?

I've read the Qur'an, like I've read the bible, like I've read the Torah. I've read what the Qur'an says about homosexuals and homosexual activity. The viewpoint of the majority and those who hung the two kids is if you're a fag then you die.

The majority of whom? Hanging for being gay is wrong. That sort of execution is not halāl that I know of. I dont think there are many people who are left confused between the Arabic term liwaat , which means the physical act of homosexualty and psychological homosexual, not acted upon.
I have not mentioned it yet to avoid getting into an argument, but the issue in your post has been mentioned twice now. The boys who were hanged in Iran, were convicted in a trial for paedophilia, both of them having been convicted of rape.

To my knowledge, there are 7 states in the world that punish homosexual relations with death. It is a question for governments in my opinion. That is a sentiment that even the controversial scholar Yusef al-Qaradawi has expressed.

Trying to distinguish homosexuals and homosexual "activities" is like saying it's not a sin to be male but it is a sin to leave the toilet seat up. Being male is not a sin but male activites are. What horse****.

Im sorry you feel that way. I dont really want to start a debate on this because I think some people would think it offensive here, but I dont think it the same thing. Being homosexual does not mean one has to engage in homosexual activities AFAIK.

Again I will point to an online artivcle, I think that this one is something that might interest you:)

Syth

Santa Claus wrote:

Yes, but in fairness the condoms back then were made of animal/fish intestines or hide....I think the OP was expressing suprise that condom use was so prevalant in a 3rd world society !

Remember that about 15-20% of the population in lots of these 3rd world countries has HIV/AIDS.

No-one in Ethiopia uses seatbelts, and I saw an ad on the telly there were a hot chick gets into a car and drive off wearing a seat belt, she hits a rock and clearly thanks her seat belt. The ads in Amharic, so I thought it was a seat belt ad. It was actually a condom ad.

With regards to Islam, just look at the similarities between these 2 maps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Laws_on_homosexuality.PNG and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Islam_by_country.png. Though Ethiopia isn't a total Muslim country, it's about 50/50. So it's not just the muslims that hate the gays there, the christians do too.

Hmm_Messiah

debating Islamic attitudes to Homosexuality don't tend to get anywhere. You either debate it with a "moderate" muslim who agrees that the overall attitude/treatment is wrong, or to a fervent (not fundamentalist) Muslin who can never ever alter their mindset.

The case mentioned confuses things further as there are conflicting reports over what they were executed for (admittedly that can easily be seen as a ploy to dilute the atrocity, but can it be proven so? ) It is better to see the cases as demonstrating how abhorrent it is to execute a young person when the vast majority (globally) would not see them as having achieved full adult maturity.

The pics are cute, but thats because they are seen outside their cultural context.

At least western women are comfortable holding hands etc; its great to see as physical contact has been shown to boost all those happy brain chemicals.

Beruthiel

Syth wrote:

Some more photos here

Those pics are fantastic Syth, looks like it was some experience

gaymale.ie

InFront wrote:

Firstly, yes, holding hands and bodily contact with other men is very normal in Arab and wider Muslim countries. I find it strange that people here in the 'liberated' west have a problem with men holding hands or hugging or see it as impolite or something.

Secondly, executing homosexuals is not "an Islamic thing", and I think that is a very unfair and presumptuous statement to make if you do not understand the full account of the Qur'an's approach to dealing with people, such as homosexual, who do not practice the norms of society.

In Islam, you must understand that being gay itself is not a sin, it is the practivce of gay relations that is abhorrent to Allah. I think this page will explain it better than I.

homosexuality and Islam

The Catholic church teaches the same thing. Both of these religions were created when Homosexuality in its modern scientific understanding did not exist, hence these religions do not recognise it. Sodomy though has always existed and that is what the Bible and Koran refer to. So it is wrong to say that these religions are fine with homosexuality, they simply do not recognise it. They are not against 'gays' or 'gay sex', modern terms that refer to scientifically understood Homosexuality and the physical expression of that. They are against sodomy, practised by men, on each other regardless of there sexuality. In the eyes of Muslim fundamentalists they are not executing Homosexuals they are executing sodmites.

However in the 21st century we now realise that homosexuality exits and that there is strong genetical envoirmental reasons for it. As the over-whelming amount of sodomy that takes place is amongst gay men, any attack on sodomy invariable by default becomes an attack on gay men.

It is nothing more then a kind or PR trick for Islam etc to state that homosexuality is legitimate, but not its expression. In fact to imply that Islam recognises Homosexuality seems heretical.