What happened to the nothern breath?

vibez

What happened to the nothern breath?

solskjaer20

Two points really.

1) I think some northern teams were pretty unlucky not to make it further. eg Donegal. Also Derry were shocked by Longford, there was serious hope around this Derry team and I think they were just shocked on the day, not to take anything away from Longford, they were brilliant.

2) Leinster teams really upped their games this year. Like even a year ago, Dublin and Laois were just their to make up the numbers in the quarter finals (I mean absolutely no offense bhy that by the way). But realistically neother was going to win Sam. A year later they're much better prepared.

In fairness though I think Ulster will be back next year as strong as ever. But other provinces have also improved.

Flukey

Tyrone were decimated by injuries this year. They will be back next year and there are a lot of young players to come there. Some of the Armagh team may retire now, but there is a lot of that team that is quite young. Donegal has a lot of potential, as have Derry and Down. Let's not forget Fermanagh. Monaghan also have a lot of good players. Lemlin will make the case for Cavan, though at present they are not that good and Antrim are not strong either. All in all though, things are strong for Ulster. We have not seen the last of Ulster teams being a force.

Kojak

solskjaer20 wrote:

Two points really.

1) I think some northern teams were pretty unlucky not to make it further. eg Donegal. Also Derry were shocked by Longford, there was serious hope around this Derry team and I think they were just shocked on the day, not to take anything away from Longford, they were brilliant.

2) Leinster teams really upped their games this year. Like even a year ago, Dublin and Laois were just their to make up the numbers in the quarter finals (I mean absolutely no offense bhy that by the way). But realistically neother was going to win Sam. A year later they're much better prepared.

In fairness though I think Ulster will be back next year as strong as ever. But other provinces have also improved.

There's truth in what your saying there but also it was inevitable that, sooner or later, Ulster's dominance would start to decrease. For the last few years, the type of Northern football (especially Armagh and Tryone) has left other counties scratching their heads - Armagh with their physical game while Tyrone with the mass defence thing.

Eventually other counties were going to come up to the standard. Also you have to consider that the tiredness and fatigue was to be a factor. To be honest, Ulster is the most difficult championship in the country and to try and win it each year was definalty going to have a detremental effect in the 'Big Two'. Look at Kerry, most years they have a reasonably tough match against Cork and they are straight into the All-Ireland quarters (I know that wasn't what happened this year, but you get my drift.)

Flukey

"Puke Football" was never more than a comment by a puke presenter who was sore at his county having lost a game. Armagh and Tyrone do indeed play strong defence and close down forwards, but both are capable of and do play some great open football too. If you look at some of the matches they played in over the past few years you would see plenty of that. There is a lot more to those two teams than the blanket defence. It wasn't just their defence that won games over the last few years and have won 3 All-Irelands and kept them both at the top of Gaelic Football. They may be both out of the 2006 championship but we have not heard the last of them.

Tyrone were decimated by injuries this year, so we can read nothing into them being knocked out. At full strength next year, they will once again be a force to be reckoned with. Some of that Armagh team will be gone next year, but there are a lot of young players in it. They have not all been there since 1999. There are players ready and waiting to replace the older ones. Tyrone have plenty of young players to come too. There is more to come from both of these counties. Given what we have seen over the past few years, objectively analysed, that is not a bad thing.

Ulster being a tough province to come out of gets argued as being positive or negative depending on how well Ulster teams do after that. When they do well, it is because of the tough games that they had strengthening them, and when the don't it is because they are too tired.

Equally when Kerry do well it is because of the fact they can come out of Munster easily and still be fresh, and when they don't it is because they did not get tested in Munster. People are arguing now that the two games against Cork helped them, but had they lost it would have been because they were not really tested by Longford and were coming up against a real team in the form of Armagh. Kerry were the better team on Saturday, and that is why they won.

Kojak

Flukey wrote:

"Puke Football" was never more than a comment by a puke presenter who was sore at his county having lost a game. Armagh and Tyrone do indeed play strong defence and close down forwards, but both are capable of and do play some great open football too. If you look at some of the matches they played in over the past few years you would see plenty of that. There is a lot more to those two teams than the blanket defence. It wasn't just their defence that won games over the last few years and have won 3 All-Irelands and kept them both at the top of Gaelic Football. They may be both out of the 2006 championship but we have not heard the last of them.

I have nothing against the "puke football" thing. I was just making the point that other teams were not able to cope with it as they had never really seen anything like it before - the 2003 All-Ireland semi-final between Tyrone and Kerry being a prime example. Take my own county, Galway, for example. This year in the league final they tried to play this "Northern game" against Kerry. It worked for about 50 minutes and then they collapsed. Kerry also tried to counter-act this style of play in last year's All-Ireland but still came up short. Like every new system of playing sport it qill take time for opponents to come up with a way of counter-acting it.

This break that Tryone have will probably see them reach a semi-final, at least, next year - IMO. Armagh, on the other hand, may have to take a bit longer to get back to the heights of 2002.

Culchie

'Northern Dominance' and 'Ulster Football' being the best etc.... was only ever about two damn good teams anyway...Tyrone and Armagh.

Other than them, the other Ulster teams were never any better or worse than the other provinces.

Flukey

That is not necessarily the case Culchie. There are different styles of football within the Ulster counties. Donegal always play a nice open brand of football. As Kojak may remember, one of nicest matches to watch in the last few years was when Donegal played Galway in the quarter final in 2003. The match ended in a draw. But as a game it was pure football, an absolute dream to watch. Galway's match against Cork last year was similar. Fermanagh play a nice brand of football too. Donegal were not bad on Saturday, except for their forwards. There was some nice football in that match, from both sides. The game we love has all sorts of characteristics and things that entertain and enthrall us, and at different times, from all the different counties, we get it.

Culchie

Flukey wrote:

That is not necessarily the case Culchie. There are different styles of football within the Ulster counties. Donegal always play a nice open brand of football. As Kojak may remember, one of nicest matches to watch in the last few years was when Donegal played Galway in the quarter final in 2003. The match ended in a draw. But as a game it was pure football, an absolute dream to watch. Galway's match against Cork last year was similar. Fermanagh play a nice brand of football too. Donegal were not bad on Saturday, except for their forwards. There was some nice football in that match, from both sides. The game we love has all sorts of characteristics and things that entertain and enthrall us, and at different times, from all the different counties, we get it.

Yes Flukey, but this 'Northern Dominance' was all a load of B.S

Yes two counties from the same province were/are in the top 3 in the country, but that was about it.
The Donegals, Derry's, Fermanaghs of this world are no better or worse than the Cork, Mayo, Dublin's etc...

Best game of football I ever seen live was Dublin V Donegal a couple of years back that ended in a draw, Cork annihalated Mayo the game beforehand.
Best atmosphere I ever had the priviledge to witness and a super game.


Anyways, rant over, and by the looks of it 'Ulster Dominance' over as well.

Flukey

I was at that match Culchie and it was a good one. As for Mayo and Cork, Cork are a bogey team for Mayo in the Championship. They've had some bad results against them over the past 20 years.

Another great match involving Dublin was of course the drawn game with Tyrone last year. Eoin Mulligan's goal was a cracker, one of the best ever scored in Croke Park. Usually there is a sense of anti-climax after a drawn match and a muted atmosphere. Coming out after that match though, the place was buzzing. Everyone knew they had seen a great game and there was a lot to talk about and be excited about. It is the best atmosphere I've ever seen after a drawn match.

solskjaer20

Yes two counties from the same province were/are in the top 3 in the country, but that was about it.
The Donegals, Derry's, Fermanaghs of this world are no better or worse than the Cork, Mayo, Dublin's etc...

But the fact of the matter is Ulster has more Donegals, Derrys and Fermanagh than any other province.

news for you

Culchie wrote:

Yes Flukey, but this 'Northern Dominance' was all a load of B.S

Yes two counties from the same province were/are in the top 3 in the country, but that was about it.
The Donegals, Derry's, Fermanaghs of this world are no better or worse than the Cork, Mayo, Dublin's etc...

Best game of football I ever seen live was Dublin V Donegal a couple of years back that ended in a draw, Cork annihalated Mayo the game beforehand.
Best atmosphere I ever had the priviledge to witness and a super game.


Anyways, rant over, and by the looks of it 'Ulster Dominance' over as well.

It looks like you contradict yourself. You say there was no Northern dominance then at the end say northern dominance is over (implying there was a period when northern teams dominated, which i believe they did since 2002). It just makes it look like you really dont want to think northern teams can dominate. Two counties from same province from the top three is impressive, 3 ulster teams in the semi's in 2003, 2 ulster teams in the semi's in 2004 and 2005. This year was a bad one for ulster teams, but Tyrone etc arent just gonna **** off for good.

Waylander

I agree with Culchie. I never felt there was an Ulster dominance, I just thought that two of the top three teams happened to be from Ulster. I do not think any of the Ulster teams have achieved much. I watched the Down v Donegal game on BBC this season. After what was a bad match between two poor teams (Donegal have been improving game on game but were poor in that one) one of the studio analysts said that it should be borne in mind that Down would easily win Leinster or Connaught. That was one of the stupidest statements I have heard in a long time, I was disgusted with it, but I was even more disgusted that noone in the studio disagreed with it. Ulster has not dominated football, Armagh and Tyrone and Kerry have.

Flukey

There is no such thing as "Northern Football", any more than there is Western Football, Southern Football, Eastern Football or Midland Football. There are different counties there. People seem to always group the "Northern teams" together. 3 counties, Armagh, Tyrone and Kerry have been the powers in the last few year. What part of the country they are from is irrelevant.

Lemlin

Waylander wrote:

I agree with Culchie. I never felt there was an Ulster dominance, I just thought that two of the top three teams happened to be from Ulster. I do not think any of the Ulster teams have achieved much. I watched the Down v Donegal game on BBC this season. After what was a bad match between two poor teams (Donegal have been improving game on game but were poor in that one) one of the studio analysts said that it should be borne in mind that Down would easily win Leinster or Connaught. That was one of the stupidest statements I have heard in a long time, I was disgusted with it, but I was even more disgusted that noone in the studio disagreed with it. Ulster has not dominated football, Armagh and Tyrone and Kerry have.

Have Fermanagh, Derry and Donegal all not reached All-Ireland semis in recent years? They're not Armagh or Tyrone. In fact for at least two years in recent years three of the four teams in the semis have been from Ulster.

In recent years Ulster has also been well represented in the quarter finals. In 2004 for example, 4 teams from Ulster, 2 from Leinster, 1 from Connacht and 1 from Munster.

Culchie

Lemlin wrote:

Have Fermanagh, Derry and Donegal all not reached All-Ireland semis in recent years? They're not Armagh or Tyrone. In fact for at least two years in recent years three of the four teams in the semis have been from Ulster.

In recent years Ulster has also been well represented in the quarter finals. In 2004 for example, 4 teams from Ulster, 2 from Leinster, 1 from Connacht and 1 from Munster.

Fine, but how many have reached a final?
If they are stronger than the other teams shouldn't they have reached a few finals?

2 Great teams in Ulster over the last 5 years, the rest are just 'Joe Soaps' just like all the other teams, except Kerry.

I'm taking absolutely nothing away from Tyrone or Armagh, but this idea of Ulster teams in general being stronger than the other counties is pure hogwash.

No Northern team this year left in the last 4 .... following your logic does that mean that Ulster football is the weakest in the country at the moment?

Anyways, thread going round in circles now....signing off.

Lemlin

Culchie wrote:

Fine, but how many have reached a final?
If they are stronger than the other teams shouldn't they have reached a few finals?

2 Great teams in Ulster over the last 5 years, the rest are just 'Joe Soaps' just like all the other teams, except Kerry.

I'm taking absolutely nothing away from Tyrone or Armagh, but this idea of Ulster teams in general being stronger than the other counties is pure hogwash.

No Northern team this year left in the last 4 .... following your logic does that mean that Ulster football is the weakest in the country at the moment?

Anyways, thread going round in circles now....signing off.

2 have over a few years. Which is more than 1 from Munster (Kerry), 1 from Connacht (Mayo) and none from Leinster. A Leinster team hasn't even reached a semi since 2003 AFAIK. In case you haven't noticed reaching a final has been genereally tied up for the past few years. Ulster teams were coming closer than anyone else to challenging the Big 3 though. Would you disagree?

As pointed out above, the fact is that Ulster has more than of these Joe Soaps than any other province.

I would actually say though that Ulster is at its weakest this year in a few seasons. The other teams have come to know Ulster team's tactics and the tide could be turning.

blackbelt

Strangely enough,I agree with Lemlin to a certain degree.

While two of the big three are/were from Ulster,we cant put it down to Ulster dominance but if you look at the teams from the last few years that would remain in the quarter finals and semis,Ulster would be well represented.

If you were to look at which province was the strongest from the championship,Ulster would come to mind.The Railway Cup does not really paint the perfect picture of which province is better.

Taking away Tyrone injuries etc,Ulster teams were also paired off in the qualifiers etc,so this has weakened the strength-hold of Ulster reps in the quarters and semis this year.

To be honest,no real province has dominated this year but Leinster football looks to have been the strongest so far.With Westmeath,Laois and Dublin left,one or two of these teams will be in the semis.If one team is left,Munster football could look to be the strongest but I dont think any one province can dominate.As Lemlin said,teams from other provinces are copping on to the tactics of northern football.

Lemlin

Actually read an interesting fact about this in my local paper, the Anglo Celt, here in Cavan yesterday. This year is the first year since 1899 that there is no Ulster team in the semis.

What was more startling is that, since the inception of the qualifiers, of the 20 teams who have made semis, Ulster have provided 9. That's nearly 50% and surely shows that Ulster football has been on top in recent times.

Although that may be about to change I admit.