Market for small diesels in Ireland

BrianD3

I notice that many small cars that are available with small (1.2-1.6) diesel engines in the UK are not available with these engines here. Eg Citroen C1 1.4 HDi, Renault Clio 1.5 DCi. With fuel prices going up all the time these cars are looking increasingly sensible even if they are dearer to buy new than petrol versions. Why are they not sold here - are prices pushed up too much by VRT or something.

Personally I think the advent of these small efficent diesels is an interesting development and in 5 years time if fuel prices keep going up like they are now there will be a serious move away from petrol cars and large cars. Also the Irish economy will not keep growing at the current rate indefinitely, there will be a slowdown or possibly a recession. Rich builders driving around in SUVs might become a thing of the past. What do others think?

ninty9er

I think we have the 1.5 megane. It's in the micra too I think

metro25_99

diesel is way forward but bigger diesels more practical 1.9tdi

junkyard

The only problem with small diesels are very underpowered unless they are turbo. I had a Peugeot 106 1.4 diesel a few years ago and I could get from Cork to Dublin and back to Cork again for 9 euros, pretty amazing tbh, the car would cruise all day at 70mph as long as you didn't hit an incline. Most of the small cars with diesel engines have big diesel engines i.e. 1.6 or 1.9 which defeats the general idea really. It would be a good idea to reduce the road tax on diesel engined cars to encourage their use.

BrianD3

Mention of the Pug 106 reminds me of another small diesel - the Daihatsu Charade 1.0 litre turbodiesel! It was the most economical car you could buy when it was on sale in the late 80s/early 90s. This was before a lot of the modern advances in diesel technology. A modern 1.0 litre diesel could be expected to be much better. Cars these days are far more bloated and built for greater safety than the Charade was but still prodiucing a light small car is possible the eg Toyota Aygo weighs <800 kg and has a 4 star EuroNCAP rating. Develop a modern 1.0 litre diesel for it and you might have a car capable of 100 mpg and 100 mph (not at the same time obviously )

Manufacturers really need to look at the weight aspect though for instance teh current VW Jetta weighs around 1450 kg with a 1.6 petrol engine and >1500 kg with the diesel. 1.5 tonnes for a family saloon is silly IMO.

ninty9er

breanoh has the diesel Daihatsu and even gets better performance with the a/c ON

junkyard

And the Daihatsu was only a three cylinder engine and woeful if driving in a hilly area. Is the Smart car availible in Diesel?

ninty9er

Is the 1.3 in the Corsa the same as the Fiat MiltiJet. You know...the doomed GM deal????

I'm happy with the Corsa nad might consider one next time as I've heard good things. anyone else had experiemce of it

TempestSabre

junkyard wrote:

....Most of the small cars with diesel engines have big diesel engines i.e. 1.6 or 1.9 which defeats the general idea really. It would be a good idea to reduce the road tax on diesel engined cars to encourage their use.

Yeah. I like a small auto diesel for the city commute.

bazz26

Interestingly VW have a 1.4 TDi engine that produces about 80bhp available in the Polo/A2/Fabia/Ibiza.

It always baffled me why they never put this in the Golf/Octavia/Leon/Jetta, etc along side the 1.9 TDi. They only dropped the ancient SDi engine recently too. If they can sell these cars with a 1.4 litre petrol engine with only 75bhp surely there is a market for a 1.4 TDi?

maidhc

The Corolla 1.4 D4D seems to be selling very well.

I am surprised with their boast that it only returns 1000km on a tank though. My 1.8 Focus retuns something close to that, and will probably better it on this tank as it has had a lot of long journeys.

ninty9er

Depends on the size of the tanks

maidhc

They are all about 50 odd litres. Focus is 52.

TempestSabre

maidhc wrote:

The Corolla 1.4 D4D seems to be selling very well.

I am surprised with their boast that it only returns 1000km on a tank though. My 1.8 Focus retuns something close to that, and will probably better it on this tank as it has had a lot of long journeys.

Is it the same type of driving though?

professore

junkyard wrote:

The only problem with small diesels are very underpowered unless they are turbo. I had a Peugeot 106 1.4 diesel a few years ago and I could get from Cork to Dublin and back to Cork again for 9 euros, pretty amazing tbh, the car would cruise all day at 70mph as long as you didn't hit an incline. Most of the small cars with diesel engines have big diesel engines i.e. 1.6 or 1.9 which defeats the general idea really. It would be a good idea to reduce the road tax on diesel engined cars to encourage their use.

I too am a big fan of diesels, having had a Peugeot 309 and currently a Xantia turbo diesel.

The new common rail diesels output a lot more power than the older diesels. The Clio has a 1.5 dCi that outputs 100 BHP, replacing the older 65 BHP 1.9 engine in the previous model AND gets 65 MPG. I WANT ONE!!!

http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews/car-and-driving/renault-clio-1.5-dci-100-range-1004186.html

Volvoboy

the Seat Arosa has a 1.7SDi And a 1.9Tdi engine, not avail here 1.7 in england and the 1.9 TDi in main land europe.

maidhc

TempestSabre wrote:

Is it the same type of driving though?

I assume the toyota figure is the "combined" one. My figure is based on everyday driving; mway, city, and on this tank lots of N-road driving at ~65 mph.

bazz26

In fairness your Focus has a 1.8 diesel engine so I would presume that it would have less struggle pulling the body than say a 1.4 diesel. Could depend on the weight of both cars and also the rev range at which the power is delivered.

I read somewhere that Toyota have got the maximum power out of that 1.4 D4-D engine (90bhp) so maybe fuel economy suffers to some extent. When the 1.4 D4-D first appeared in the MkI Yaris it only had 75bhp.

HashSlinging

VW have a 1.5 Tdi coming out in '07 , will be available across the whole range. Figures are from the sports coupe concept : 150bhp, 149 mph, 0 - 60 is 6.5secs, 89 mpg, although the road version will still be fairly impressive.

I also drove the 1.5Dci in majorca on holiday in the megan scenic, and I have to say I was very impressed with it, we had one in tenerife in the clio and it was just as good if not better. edit I think it was the 100bhp version.

kluivert

Why is there a need for petrol cars anymore.

If all cars where diesel this more seriously help the environment.

Especially in the US and Asia.

1.9 CDTi Astra. 150bhp. More than enough pace there.

junii

89MPG! Jez, I thought my sunny was economical at 40-45. Will have to start looking for a diesel. Could you get a diesel thats that economical for under 2k?

Is the insurance cheaper on a diesel?

TempestSabre

kluivert wrote:

Why is there a need for petrol cars anymore.

If all cars where diesel this more seriously help the environment.

Especially in the US and Asia.

1.9 CDTi Astra. 150bhp. More than enough pace there.

The Govt are not doing anything to promote diesels. I thought it was banned in parts of the US for some types of vehicles?

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/05/us_sales_of_vw_.html
http://www.nrdc.org/air/transportation/hdiesel.asp

junii wrote:

89MPG! Jez, I thought my sunny was economical at 40-45. Will have to start looking for a diesel. Could you get a diesel thats that economical for under 2k?

Is the insurance cheaper on a diesel?

Insurance not really. I doubt that 89MPG is achieveable in the real world, despite peoples claims to able to get 70mpg from petrol cars on super long runs as a norm. Work out the difference in cost of insurance, tax, cost to buy, servicing costs and fuel vs the same for the petol. Unfortunately a lot of diesels are still very noisy, and many performance diesels a lot heavier on juice when driven hard.

breanoh

The charade isn't that bad, but don't show it a hill, will die! Lots of torque in 1st and 2nd, but it doesn't hold speed well, and forget getting any performance if the A/C is on! I found it to be OK, but not great on fuel. THe 1.6 Jetta was better. Also gives headgasket trouble, is noisy, smokey, smelly, and not that comfortable. get an average of about 50mpg outta it, can get that in a 1.0 if I'm nice to it without the diesel smell and noise!

unkel

BrianD3 wrote:

Personally I think the advent of these small efficent diesels is an interesting development

I agree and in the absence of any significant developments of real alternatives to fossil fuels in the near future, diesel will gain a significant market share. This has already happened in more advanced economically / environmentally aware countries like e.g. France and Austria where diesels account for the vast majority of all new cars sold

TempestSabre wrote:

The Govt are not doing anything to promote diesels

Indeed they're not. Instead of environmentally relatively sound cars like a Mercedes-Benz E220CDI or BMW 520d, they're offering gas-guzzling hybrids as a so called "eco friendly" alternative to ministers. How ignorant can they get? :rolleyes:

maidhc

unkel wrote:

Indeed they're not. Instead of environmentally relatively sound cars like a Mercedes-Benz E220CDI or BMW 520d, they're offering gas-guzzling hybrids as a so called "eco friendly" alternative to ministers. How ignorant can they get? :rolleyes:

It might backfire yet, since lexus are marketing the GS hybrid as being performance orientated rather than being environmentally friendly. The fact the GS gets a VRT rebate when small diesels don't is sickening.

TempestSabre

breanoh wrote:

The charade isn't that bad, but don't show it a hill, will die! Lots of torque in 1st and 2nd, but it doesn't hold speed well, and forget getting any performance if the A/C is on! I found it to be OK, but not great on fuel. THe 1.6 Jetta was better. Also gives headgasket trouble, is noisy, smokey, smelly, and not that comfortable. get an average of about 50mpg outta it, can get that in a 1.0 if I'm nice to it without the diesel smell and noise!

We had a two 1.6 jetta's, and while great cars (a Golf MkII with a boot) they'd only get 450 on a full tank. We've a 1.7 TD Astra which does slightly better and is a much nicer car to drive. People here seem to be getting that kinda mileage out of petrol cars.

unkel

maidhc wrote:

The fact the GS gets a VRT rebate when small diesels don't is sickening

Sickening indeed, it's perverse :mad:

In the UK it is exempt from the London congestion charge where small diesels aren't