which one

anythingoes

hey all. from a self defence point of view, which martial art should i take up when i go back to uni in september??? which would you all regard as being the most effective or can you recomend something else? Im very fit, so its not the workout aspect im looking for, I want to do something ehich is effective in areal life situation. im trying to post a poll but not succeeding here...

Aikido
karate (shotokan)
Judo
maybe boxing??

Looking for advice. please advise! If someone can help with the poll that'd be great too!

cheers,
ag.

yomchi

anythingoes wrote:

hey all. from a self defence point of view, which martial art should i take up when i go back to uni in september??? which would you all regard as being the most effective or can you recomend something else? Im very fit, so its not the workout aspect im looking for, I want to do something ehich is effective in areal life situation. im trying to post a poll but not succeeding here...

Aikido
karate (shotokan)
Judo
maybe boxing??

Looking for advice. please advise! If someone can help with the poll that'd be great too!

cheers,
ag.

A combination of the 4! It really depends on the instructor as to whether he'll teach self defence from a realistic point of view.

SorGan

Aikido
karate (shotokan)
Judo
maybe boxing??

boxing hands down, add judo if you gots the time.

columok

A combo of boxing (striking) and judo (grappling) would be ideal. Can I ask why you've limited yourself to those four. I'd chuck in muay thai aswell.

kenpo_dave

I agree with SorGan. A Boxing - Judo mix will make you a very tough person. What Uni is it just out of interest.

OSU,

Dave.

SorGan

karate
http://youtube.com/watch?v=g404N_wQjL0
boxing
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IDko7Utfqdg
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0Su2nCOjugM
judo
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pFM-xRKbSec
plenty of aikdo posted in the last day for you to look at:D

oh and for interest sake
jeet kune do
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3NWc33qQnqU

anythingoes

Cheers for replys,
I did karate for a couple of yrs, was fairly good at it but the club closed so I never got to the dan grades. I was very close though, i just didnt dind another club to suit me. I did judo in school for a few months but didnt pursue it, but liked it nonetheless, did aikido for a bit in college and left due to exams. always wondered about boxing, never tried it. im looking for something that is good and effective on a street level. to be honest, im wondering should i just left where i got off in shotokan or go pick one of the others. I like aikido from the momentum point of view and have used it to my advantage in situations, i just do not like the way there is no way of testing it as such, no validation of the techniques that prove they would work in a sticky situation.
Im wondering how effective judo would be in a self defence situation. has anyone any experiences? a combination of all four wouldnt be possible this year due to time constraints, id rather do one of them and be very proficient at it than be okayish at all four. To be honest, as a high kyu karate practitioner, i dont have the belief in it to be very effective in self defence, even though I have used very little of it. but im wondering would my confidence and technique change should i progress to dan level?
as for boxing, iv never tried it but i imagine it would make you very astute in a self defence situation, Im a bit unsure of it though, I was never the best at sparring in shotokan, possibly because our sensei did fèck all sparring practice with us.

so as you probably guessed...im lost. i do not know which path to follow.
I want to be able to defend myself effectively, hold my own. Its a very difficult decision for me. I hope some of you or any of you can help me.

can i ask why you recommended boxing and judo as a combo?? i was thinking about that or karate and aikido together, but as i said, i really do not know.


cheers
ag.

SorGan

anythingoes wrote:

Cheers for replys,
I did karate for a couple of yrs, was fairly good at it but the club closed so I never got to the dan grades. I was very close though, i just didnt dind another club to suit me. I did judo in school for a few months but didnt pursue it, but liked it nonetheless, did aikido for a bit in college and left due to exams. always wondered about boxing, never tried it. im looking for something that is good and effective on a street level. to be honest, im wondering should i just left where i got off in shotokan or go pick one of the others. I like aikido from the momentum point of view and have used it to my advantage in situations, i just do not like the way there is no way of testing it as such, no validation of the techniques that prove they would work in a sticky situation.
Im wondering how effective judo would be in a self defence situation. has anyone any experiences? a combination of all four wouldnt be possible this year due to time constraints, id rather do one of them and be very proficient at it than be okayish at all four. To be honest, as a high kyu karate practitioner, i dont have the belief in it to be very effective in self defence, even though I have used very little of it. but im wondering would my confidence and technique change should i progress to dan level?
as for boxing, iv never tried it but i imagine it would make you very astute in a self defence situation, Im a bit unsure of it though, I was never the best at sparring in shotokan, possibly because our sensei did fèck all sparring practice with us.

so as you probably guessed...im lost. i do not know which path to follow.
I want to be able to defend myself effectively, hold my own. Its a very difficult decision for me. I hope some of you or any of you can help me.

can i ask why you recommended boxing and judo as a combo?? i was thinking about that or karate and aikido together, but as i said, i really do not know.


cheers
ag.

well thats an easy one, boxing and judo both have effective training methods(resistant/alive training) as a combo, one for punching/footwork and judo for grappling/throwing,
aikido and karate? hmmm for what you want, forget it.
dont know if you want to train outside of the college but if so then post it up,
there are a good mix of ma clubs around, that would do ya..(edit)

silat liam

Another option is maybe to try a Silat class which has a blend of Striking / Grappling / and Knife training. Or maybe a Kali / Eskrima option if its closer to you.

Liam

Mola.mola

what college are you in? trinity? if so there can be only one option.

Mola.mola

are u in ucd? try the mma club.

anythingoes

im in ucg, so if ya had to narrow it down to boxing or judo...which one would you pick, for the reasons i listed previously??????????????

uberpixie

anythingoes wrote:

im in ucg, so if ya had to narrow it down to boxing or judo...which one would you pick, for the reasons i listed previously??????????????

Try both see what suits ya.

A friend of mine has used judo twice to save his own skin in Limerick so judo does work from a self defense point of view.

(He got randomly jumped twice, manged to knock over his attackers both times, giving him enough space to leg it)

Tbh as you have not tried boxing before, why not give it a go?

Andrew_M

If i had to pick between boxing and judo, id pick boxing. The only downfall is that college clubs are usually more about socialising rather than actual training, there's plenty of good boxing gyms in Galway...

judomick

Andrew_M wrote:

If i had to pick between boxing and judo, id pick boxing. .

Hi Andrew obviously im a little biased just wondering if theres a reason you would go for boxing over judo?

Baggio...

Boxing by far!

I'd personally stay clear of Judo.

Mola.mola

baggio that's because you only train on your own so you can't do judo. I'd pick judo cos it's more fun than boxing. Either way, to use a cliche, start training with the atletics club if you want good self-defense.

I personally also think the striking technique required in self-defense is rather simple. Punch, with the palm or fist to someone on the face on neck, possibly a few times. Or knee or foot, really hard to something soft like groin or belly. Spending a lot of time learning boxing seems like over kill.

Why are you so obsessed about self-defense original poster?

Baggio...

Mola.mola wrote:

baggio that's because you only train on your own so you can't do judo. I'd pick judo cos it's more fun than boxing. Either way, to use a cliche, start training with the atletics club if you want good self-defense.

I personally also think the striking technique required in self-defense is rather simple. Punch, with the palm or fist to someone on the face on neck, possibly a few times. Or knee or foot, really hard to something soft like groin or belly. Spending a lot of time learning boxing seems like over kill.

Why are you so obsessed about self-defense original poster?

Jasus....

First off, I use boxing as a delivery system (with some exceptions).
I don't train in boxing per se, I train in Combatives. So I'd never dream of using a closed fist at any time. If you read the post, the guys is asking which is the best out of “XYZ”. My first choice would always be Combatives - but boxing is a second choice. It was the best out of the list given.

Oh and I did Judo for about a year, and it's definitely not something that I'd be interested in. Also, the guy was not asking for "fun" he wanted something for practical self-defense.

“Spending a lot of time learning boxing seems like over kill. “ Hmm... spending a bazillion years throwing people round a Dojo? Seems like under kill to me.

Mola.mola wrote:

Why are you so obsessed about self-defense original poster?

God forbid - you might want to defend yourself one day.:D

columok

In my experience university boxing clubs have massive massive amounts of joiners every september which means that (understandably) the quality of coaching from sept-nov tends to be really poor cause of the mega numbers.

Judo doesn't suffer from this tbh as its numbers tend to be lower. Therefore if you wanna get cracking in september and be learning from day 1.... do JUDO!

judomick

Baggio... wrote:

Jasus....

Oh and I did Judo for about a year, and it's definitely not something that I'd be interested in. Also, the guy was not asking for "fun" he wanted something for practical self-defense.

although judo is fun for millions of people, except those who fight andy ryan:D , its seld defence applications are very real , id suggest you go train in coolmine or portmarnock then repost your views in think they might change a little, or maybe go to shanet's open mat on the 24th?

Mola.mola

Baggio I agree with a lot of what you're saying. My opinion is, a good boxing club is trying to teach you the whole craft of boxing with actually throwing punches only being a subset of this. As you imply yourself, learning some CQC/COMBATIVES style punching, either open palm or back of wrist would be something you wouldn't learn in boxing club but could be practiced one's self. So if you want to learn the type of striking required for SD, popping a massive open fist punch from a defensive position you don't need to be a good boxer.

As i said in another thread judo isn't a self defense course. Neither is boxing. But Self defense for me is 1% application of my martial arts/combat sport training.

Baggio...

judomick wrote:

its seld defence applications are very real , id suggest you go train in coolmine or portmarnock then repost your views in think they might change a little, or maybe go to shanet's open mat on the 24th?

Think I'll pass to be honest. From what I've seen, I don't particularly like judo anyway (Although I have learned a few combat throws that were taken and adapted from Judo - but that's about it).

I also listen to people like GT and Carl Cestari - GT was training Judo at a national level, and Cerstai has a 5th degree. They both do not see it as a first line of defense in any street fight.

But if you think it's good and you enjoy it - Go for it!!

It's just not for me.:)

dlofnep

Ah now baggio - if you're going to dispute Judo - You should at least give it a try first.

Mola.mola

he's done it for a year. he's entiteld to his opinion. i think this discussion has runs it's course. judo v boxing is very 1950s.

dlofnep

Ah ok very well..

My apologies so

Roper

Mola.mola wrote:

he's done it for a year. he's entiteld to his opinion. i think this discussion has runs it's course. judo v boxing is very 1950s.

Ah don't stop, I was just putting on my Fats Domino records...

judomick

Baggio... wrote:

(Although I have learned a few combat throws that were taken and adapted from Judo - but that's about it).

They both do not see it as a first line of defense in any street fight.

Combat throws? seriously in the real world judo throws are judo throws they work the same on the mat as they do on the street

If they said judo or boxing etc was the first line of defence there would be no need to buy their dvds would there? which would mean them having to make a living doing something else!

Baggio...

judomick wrote:

Combat throws? seriously in the real world judo throws are judo throws they work the same on the mat as they do on the street

If they said judo or boxing etc was the first line of defence there would be no need to buy their dvds would there? which would mean them having to make a living doing something else!

Well, the combat throws that I seen and learned are quite different from the Judo throws (remember you gotta let you opponents down gently on the mat – it's very controlled in the Dojo, otherwise there would be a shed load more injuries). Also, in Combatives throwing it's very rare to execute a throw by itself – one would ALWAYS strike multiple times first, and then throw.

But if it works for you – cool, keep using it.

Everyone is selling something. Theres a lot of Judo DVDs available out there. I happen to agree with Thompson and Cestari, I don't hang on their every word. I always try to pressure test anything I learn. I never take anything for granted.

Personally, I think there are more efficient and better ways. Why don't you go to Mick or Lee's seminar and have a look for yourself? (although you wont find any throwing per se)

Peace,

B.

Mola.mola

Baggio you should come along to the next meet up, I'm not calling you out, I'd just lke to know where you're coming from and I just think we all keep misunderstanding each other.

I used to be very dismissive of CQC and Combatives and RBSD and Krav Maga etc. but recently with discussion with Shanet realised there is probably a time and a place for studying them. I certainly would never spend a lot of time doing them but maybe a month or two.

Dave Joyce

FAO Anythingoes there is also a BJJ and Muaythai clubs in NUIG. I along with some of my seniors teach the Muaythai class and Mark Leonard who posts regularly on this forum runs Point Blank Submissions. Just thought it would give you extra options but if you're set on either Boxing or Judo particularly for Self Protection reasons don't listen to the sheet and take up boxing.

LukeyJudo22

Baggio... wrote:

Well, the combat throws that I seen and learned are quite different from the Judo throws (remember you gotta let you opponents down gently on the mat – it's very controlled in the Dojo, otherwise there would be a shed load more injuries).

Theres nothing gentle about the judo I do. I've been concussed several times after being smashed off the mat, I've concussed opponents of mine (unintentionally) in contest. I've also been smacked OFF the mat because some randori's can get heated and sometimes people really don't care where they throw you as long as they throw you. If someone takes a bad fall in judo or doesn't know how to land properly they run the risk of incurring serious damage to their bodies.

Sure it's controlled as in there's no striking in judo, but that just means you can go 100% trying to smash each other into the mat. Judo is a very tough sport.

"remember you gotta let you opponents down gently on the mat"

Training for a contest, or even in the heat of a contest i would never ever let my partner (unless of course they were beginners) down gently on the mat in randori sparring, thats just ridiculous.

Now imo you've only learned a throw when you've done thousands of repititions and can consistently use it successfully in randori/contest against resisting opponents.

How are you supposed to know a throw if you only train on your own? Without resisting opponents, live sparring etc

Its impossible. I've been doing throwing techniques for the past ten years and I only know about seven. Sure I can demonstrate loads but that doesn't mean I can get them in contest or even in a fight. All the Olympic champions in judo base their fighting style around two or three techniques and that's it. But they practice the techniques day in day out up to a certain point that the techniques become unstoppable.

Anyways, got a bit off topic there.

Op best of luck again!

-Luke

Baggio...

Mola.mola wrote:

I just think we all keep misunderstanding each other.

You're probably right. It's very easy to misinterpret what people are saying via the internet.

Cheers,

Baggio.

LukeyJudo22

Aaaaaanyway,

OP just do whatever one you like best. I'm sure if you join whatever club you'll just love it and believe it or not you'll be less and less concerned with defending yourself and more and more concerned about enjoying your training. Thats what happened to me anyway.

Bagg my last post wasn't a slight on you, just think that the judo club you trained in maybe wasn't that tough?

Like you said if it works for you then do it. Its all good!

-Luke

Lawrence_O

Yeah at the open mat there will be all styles of fighting,BJJ,Judo,Kyokushin Karate(Full contact) and decide from there what u want to do...Personally Some form of stand up fighting and judo together is a great combination,some MMA clubs do that,so look some up and see what interests you.

Roper

Personally, I think amatuer boxing can offer far more than any martial art in Ireland can in terms of organisation, coaching etc. (for the moment anyway) In that regard, Judo or any of the Olympic sports are probably next on the list.

Just FYI I suppose!

droc

Baggio, I think you might wanna listen to GT a little more. He has ALWAYS been an avid supporter of Judo for self defence and has said that it's the best art available to back up your hands.

Why do you think he's so highly graded in it and still trains in it ? Because it's effective.

Like it or not, boxing's not always gonna stop a fight from reaching a clinch situatiion, and when that happens Judo is very helpful.

I agree with most posters (and Geoff Thompson), a mix of Judo and boxing is an excellent combination for Self Defence.

DROC

judomick

Baggio... wrote:

Everyone is selling something. Theres a lot of Judo DVDs available out there.

I always try to pressure test anything I learn. I never take anything for granted.

Personally, I think there are more efficient and better ways. Why don't you go to Mick or Lee's seminar and have a look for yourself? (although you wont find any throwing per se)

.

Judo dvd.....Combat Judo dvd for the street, which one would you buy?

GT or cestari would never be able to sell a judo dvd there not widely known as being great judoka, but you add street etc on to it the insecure salivate

i think i recall someone said you train alone is this true? and if so how do you pressure test stuff?

So i could pay 100 euro for a few hours or go train functional self defence with jk for two months, decisions decisions

But if you want to meet (for free) ive said before id like to see some combatives techniques and see where your coming from? its in no way a challenge but you seem very reluctant, from this it appears your insecure about whether your training is functional?!

Black Jack

ok, look putting this to bed , i think the majority is saying go for the boxing and judo, i agree with this, personally i think Aikido and Shotokan are about as usefull as a pair of tits

anythingoes, come back to this in a few months and let us know what you think having trained them. whichever you choose !!!

judomick

Black Jack wrote:

i think Aikido and Shotokan are about as usefull as a pair of tits

tits are very useful;)

op i was one of the first to give advice this still stands train both if you can, let us know how you get on

MaeveD

Black Jack wrote:

are about as usefull as a pair of tits

Tits are great and very useful.... but fair play to you for being so open about your sexual persuassion on an internet board

Roper

Roper wrote:

In that regard, Judo or any of the Olympic sports are probably next on the list.

Not too sure about that

Baggio...

judomick wrote:

Judo dvd.....Combat Judo dvd for the street, which one would you buy?

GT or cestari would never be able to sell a judo dvd there not widely known as being great judoka, but you add street etc on to it the insecure salivate

i think i recall someone said you train alone is this true? and if so how do you pressure test stuff?

So i could pay 100 euro for a few hours or go train functional self defence with jk for two months, decisions decisions

But if you want to meet (for free) ive said before id like to see some combatives techniques and see where your coming from? its in no way a challenge but you seem very reluctant, from this it appears your insecure about whether your training is functional?!

Again, you seem to be missing what I'm saying. I personally have no judo/combat-throwing DVDs. Why? Because I would never go for any form of throw/grappling/manipulation/joint-locking. I merely stated that, from what I have seen, combat throws are more effective. This does not mean I'd ever use them in a street fight. I hope this makes it clear.

Gotta dispute what you said about GT and Cestari, as would a lot of folks - just look at some of the senior guys in the BCA. Anyway, they sell functional stuff - it's not their intention to sell "martial arts," per se. I'm sure GT is worried not being able to sell a few Judo DVDs - considering he's a world famous marital artist.

Insecure about what I'm using? If you say so. After reading your posts, I'd prefer not to meet up to be honest. We're really not on the same wave length. I don't have to justify myself to anyone here, and I have no interest in Judo. Really, you'd have to pay me to get me near your 'free' Judo class.

Oh yes, I generally train alone. If you've read any of my posts, I've said that I get a few of my mates to help me out. They're not martial artists, but they are big gits, so they're perfect for testing my stuff out.

Can we end this now?

Baggio.

columok

Baggio,

any chance you could make the MMA open sparring night?

Colum

Black Jack

MaeveD wrote:

Tits are great and very useful.... but fair play to you for being so open about your sexual persuassion on an internet board

hahaha , put my foot in it there it seems, nah i love tits there great, sorry didnt mean any offence to the girls there, or to any of the heavy boys :eek: , but less of the sexual inuendo and focus people, lol ,

im no starting a thread on practicality of tits in MA , well for a guy yeah have their uses, personally i love the fun bags, enough!!!!!!

Black Jack

lot of people here know more on these than me, so asking which would better or more practical or better use in a fight or which generally do people prefer, cause up until a few years ago BJJ was not to common,

Black Jack

Black Jack wrote:

lot of people here know more on these than me, so asking which would better or more practical or better use in a fight or which generally do people prefer, cause up until a few years ago BJJ was not to common,

Both

judomick

Baggio... wrote:

Again, you seem to be missing what I'm saying. I personally have no judo/combat-throwing DVDs.

think you missed my point , in that if you sensationalise something it tends to appeal to more people

Baggio... wrote:

Gotta dispute what you said about GT and Cestari, as would a lot of folks - just look at some of the senior guys in the BCA. Anyway, they sell functional stuff - it's not their intention to sell "martial arts," per se. I'm sure GT is worried not being able to sell a few Judo DVDs - considering he's a world famous marital artist..

hes famous for combatives and fair play to him, not for judo or grappling or boxing

Baggio... wrote:

Insecure about what I'm using? If you say so. After reading your posts, I'd prefer not to meet up to be honest. We're really not on the same wave length. I don't have to justify myself to anyone here, and I have no interest in Judo. Really, you'd have to pay me to get me near your 'free' Judo class..

you dont like being questioned? Listen im arrogant thats just me, personally i wanted to meet to see exactly what combatives is, just to discuss its pros and cons the same as you would do with judo etc, nothing malicious in this, ill pay you 100 euro

Baggio... wrote:

Oh yes, I generally train alone.

i can see how the grappling doesnt do anything for you so...:D (joke)

SorGan

MaeveD wrote:

Tits are great and very useful.... but fair play to you for being so open about your sexual persuassion on an internet board

Maeve thats just so funny,:D

Millionaire

I have gone full circle in my training and opinions on SD.

I say No 1, best all around striking system is Muay Thai. I would take up Thai, learn to puch kick knee elbow and clinch (and maybe a wee sneaky thia throw...illegal in comptetion but it exists).
Good thai training leaves everything else miles behind and its simple.
Im just back from a weekend training under Craig O Flynn in his camp in Pattaya, and the standard is amazing..anyway I ll post about this tomorrow.

Once you got say 12 months minimum thai in and you can spar to a decent level, I would add in combatives, and some KM tricks, and learn a bit of ground work too...just in case.

Hope that helps!

I would advise go to up coming Mick Coup and Lee Morrision seminars too.

also for lads on here, who want to learn a wee bit about RBSD you should go to these too, it will explain it alot better than any of us can on a forum.