Pistol Licence Recalled

triskell

i was talking to a couple of lads from dublin last night. they had heard of some pistol owners being given 21 days to surrender there firearms anyone else heard this or is it just heineken talking. if there truth in it where dose it leave the rest of us:(

Rew

Haven't heard anything, sounds like its just rumours

Rovi

Besides myself, I know a few others people with pistols, and this is the first any of us have heard of anything like this. All our licences were re-issued over the last couple of weeks without any sort of comment or drama.

No harm keeping an ear to the ground, but I'd be of the opinion that this is unsubstantiated rumour.

Chipboard

I had my Glock 17 licence re-issued the day before yesterday and my FO told me that there is talk of revoking the licences.

There seems to be a huge deficit of knowledge among the Gardai of what Practical Pistol is about as he said that they were thinking of only issuing licences for target shooting guns ie .22. I told him that most people I know use 9mm, .40 or .45.

I put it to him that you would be allowed 'hold what you have' ie that there would only be an stop on new licences and he said he agreed that this was a likely scenario. He said he didn't think that they would recall all guns. He said that there hadn't been any incidents with legally held pistols and the 'boys who are causing the trouble were well able to get their hands on guns anyway'.

He did commment that alot of them seemed to prefer the Glock 17 - anyone know what type of pistols were confiscated yesterday in Meath.

triskell

i hope its only a rumour about the surrender of pistols, it seems not that this issue was more facilities than caliber.
as to the caliber restrictions it appears to be the case that you need a specific reason to own the firearm and in in your sport IPSC it has to to be centrefire and 9mm or above. so even if the caliber goses on restricted listed it can still be legaly got

Clare gunner

Sounds like another "noise maker" rumour put out by the Gardai to scare the bejasus out of everyone.Like the military calibre issue .Remember the gaurds and DOJ were/are poor losers and anything to make life difficult/miserable for us shooters is fair game.Confirm always with two sources to see if the rumour is true.
As for the Glock being used alot by gangstas here.Somwhere in Europe there must be a sh%tload of them gone missing somwhere for them to show up in Irish criminal hands or there is a hell of deact reacting going on.

Chipboard

Clare gunner wrote:

Sounds like another "noise maker" rumour put out by the Gardai to scare the bejasus out of everyone

I dunno about that, my FO is about as pro-gun as it is possible for someone in his situation to be so I don't think he'd be spinning a load of BS.

Clare gunner wrote:

Confirm always with two sources to see if the rumour is true.

We had this "rumour" from a lot more than two sources at this stage.

Clare gunner wrote:

Remember the gaurds and DOJ were/are poor losers and anything to make life difficult/miserable for us shooters is fair game.

DOJ maybe, and McDowell is exactly the kind of childish individual who would take it personal (as he has done repeatedly with other issues - for eg. refusal of planning permission, striking down of law on statutory rape etc) but in my experience the guards have no problem with law abiding gun owners.

Keelan

Folks, im sorry to say, but its true.
I wont go into details on here, but all i can say is, its hapening.
Keelan.

Clare gunner

Chipboard wrote:

I dunno about that, my FO is about as pro-gun as it is possible for someone in his situation to be so I don't think he'd be spinning a load of BS.

Not trying to be awkward here,but it could be possible that he is repeating somthing that he heard,from somone else,who got it from somone else as well.

We had this "rumour" from a lot more than two sources at this stage

.

Who ??A source that is quoteable is what we need.

DOJ maybe, and McDowell is exactly the kind of childish individual who would take it personal (as he has done repeatedly with other issues - for eg. refusal of planning permission, striking down of law on statutory rape etc) but in my experience the guards have no problem with law abiding gun owner.

Maybe the Gaurds themselves haven't a problem,but it is your Supers mindset that counts in the end.

Also,is it possible that these lads who are orderd to hand their stuff back in 21 days ,is there possibly more to the story than we are aware of?

Samson

Keelan wrote:

Folks, im sorry to say, but its true.
I wont go into details on here, but all i can say is, its hapening.
Keelan.

How very cryptic.

civdef

I have heard that if someone previously obtained a licence on the basis of membership of a club, and the club has a lack of facilities such as a range, then they will have difficulties renewing.

sidneyreilly

It's has been attempted in one district only. Dont worry about it.

gtinv

I ahve spoken to an informed source in the last week who has advised that this is all a runour, but there is an amnesty coming about where all guns are to be handed in up to , I think September 06, maybe this is nothing to do with the amnesty but feel it may well be allied to it.

Needs to be sorted in case the Political monguls are seeking to set up a situation of panic and water it down at some last minute but yet yield some return of pistols.

Rew

There is some truth to the rumour. One Super in one area tried to revoke pistol licences. Its effecting a handfull of pistol owners and there is on going legal action about it so its probably not wise to go in to depth on it. Its an isolated incident and thats whats important to keep in mind.

Clare gunner

Hmm,well if this is true,off to our solicitors we should go,to see about compensation for loss of personal property to the State.Lets add a couple of million more to the taxpayers bill of govt/garda incompetance on the firearms issue.:rolleyes: :mad:

Rew

Its an isolated incident in one small area effecting a handfull of people who are already sorting out so lets not blow it up in to more then it is.

Keelan

Its true, it has started.

I have had 2 officers leave my premisses this AM. They turned up witout notice at 7 am this morning, to check my security arrangements for my .223.
I showed them my safe and how i stored the bolt in another safe in another part of the house. They were impressed with that, but not impressed that i dont have an alarm.:rolleyes:
Eircom phone watch was advised and now i have to fork out 1800 Euro to get it set up, or i will have my cert revoked.:eek:
WATCH OUT FOLKS!!!!!
Keelan.

conce452

I have talked to many people in the wicklow area who have been given 21 days to hand in pistols. According to a letter sent to all pistol licence holders in the wicklow area that are under Superintendent Roche a new Firearms Certificates will not be issued until ranges are inspected and passed.

This is part of the new CJB that has not been brought into law yet. It seems that an inspector in wicklow town has sent out letters to anyone that holds a pistol within his juristiction. Most people are refusing to hand in pistols because a FAC can only be revoked by a superintendent and this letter is from an inspector. Also he quotes the 1925 Firearms act in his letter. In this act there is nothing about range inspections for firearms licence holders only inspections for ranges where non firearms licence people are shooting, therefore his point is invalid. I am told that sevral individuals have sought legal advice and the NARGC are already on the case. Anyone else heard anything???

Riggser

conce452 wrote:

This is part of the new CJB that has not been brought into law yet. It seems that an inspector in wicklow town has sent out letters to anyone that holds a pistol within his juristiction. Most people are refusing to hand in pistols because a FAC can only be revoked by a superintendent and this letter is from an inspector. Also he quotes the 1925 Firearms act in his letter. In this act there is nothing about range inspections for firearms licence holders only inspections for ranges where non firearms licence people are shooting, therefore his point is invalid. I am told that sevral individuals have sought legal advice and the NARGC are already on the case. Anyone else heard anything???

I can say something that is 100% true, this thread is giving me pains. I may start my own rumour just to show how much of a joke the sport of shooting in this country is turning out to be and management level in the Gardai are playing a huge part in the f*&k up.

Clare gunner

conce452 wrote:

I have talked to many people in the wicklow area who have been given 21 days to hand in pistols. According to a letter sent to all pistol licence holders in the wicklow area that are under Superintendent Roche a new Firearms Certificates will not be issued until ranges are inspected and passed.

This is part of the new CJB that has not been brought into law yet. It seems that an inspector in wicklow town has sent out letters to anyone that holds a pistol within his juristiction. Most people are refusing to hand in pistols because a FAC can only be revoked by a superintendent and this letter is from an inspector. Also he quotes the 1925 Firearms act in his letter. In this act there is nothing about range inspections for firearms licence holders only inspections for ranges where non firearms licence people are shooting, therefore his point is invalid. I am told that sevral individuals have sought legal advice and the NARGC are already on the case. Anyone else heard anything???

Well,there we have it.Gardai jumping the gun again,exceeding their authorithy,bothering liscensed shooters etc.This then becomes fact on the grapevine and before long everyone is panicing.It just shows confirm all rumours you hear.Otherwise crush them at once.
Dunno about you folks,but methinks that the time is a coming that the Garda Siochanna is due a total root&branch overhaul.The whole thing is becoming more rotten and incompetant and shown to be so every other day.And their own actions just show it even more. They claim to police with the consent of the Irish people,I really wonder for how much longer the Irish people will consent to be policed by a corrupt rotten,antique police force???I feel sorry for those good men that are there,but are let down by their leadership,or by bent coppers in their own ranks.But this is becoming more of a sick joke every other day.:mad:

Point of Information:

This is one district so lets not tar them all with the same brush

My local garda has bent over backwards to help me with my applications and process. He fully supports target shooting, and has been very helpful in all my dealings with him

Same goes for the Super in the club I deal with. He has always helped in any paperwork problem, and is really interested in the sport.

As for confirmation: until i hear from a source like CivDef, Sparks etc.. and I hear the whole story, no direct comments will be passed by me

Umiq88

What district is that?

Wexford and South Dublin

Umiq88

i take it dublin is college ill be moving to cork this year for college and will be staying there during the week and home the od weekend. If the super there turns out to be more gun friendly would it be possible for me to apply for a shotgun licence down there but still keep it at home in kilkenny

No. You apply where you are a permanent resident so unless you move full time, you have to apply in the district of your home address

Umiq88

Well technically it would be full time as id be living there more than at "home" but i take it the guards dont see it like that.

I was in the same situation, and I was told to make the ap in wexford

BOBTHESHOOTER

Looking at the new legislation it is clear the once a Superintendent refuses a firearms application or refuses to rewnew a certificate for what ever reason it is open to the aggrieved person to go directly to the district court, this is effective since August 1st, so where is the problem, failure to renew, go to the district court, it must be done within 30 days of the notification not to renw the certificate.

thelurcher

Anyone know how many pistol licenses have been issued this year?
Guarda FO from district next to mine was saying he's issued a phenominal amout of them and there's been loads of interest from people who never shot before. He didn't give numbers.

He didn't see it as a 'problem' at all though.

civdef

That's one bit that worries me, why are people who've never shot before suddenly interested in getting pistols? In my eyes at least, that group would contain a fair proportion of walters and messers, who should be carefully looked at. I think there's a lot to be said for a concept that a person should progress through a hierarchy of firearms types before being allowed hold stuff like pistols or bigger rifles.

cushtac

I was recently talking to one of Walther's reps in Ireland, he told me that several gun shops that he deals with had reported an increase in weirdos coming in looking for handguns. One dealer said that they had 'the look of Dunblaine' about them.

Clare gunner

cushtac wrote:

I was recently talking to one of Walther's reps in Ireland, he told me that several gun shops that he deals with had reported an increase in weirdos coming in looking for handguns. One dealer said that they had 'the look of Dunblaine' about them.

How do you look like a town in Scotland??
Hmmm,judging books by their covers and all that.
The progress thru idea,is fine in theory,but it didnt work in either Dunblane or Erfurt Germany either.Plus with the more availability of illegal guns on the street thru drug dealers etc "weirdos" will have an easier job of getting a full auto Uzi or whatever,than going thru the tedious process of joining clubs etc.

cushtac

Clare gunner wrote:

Hmmm,judging books by their covers and all that.

Fair point, but given that this was coming from firearms dealers used to the ordinary shooter I think it's worth noting.

The last thing pistol shooters need is an incident involving a nutter and a handgun.

Sparks

Two points (I'd make more, but I've been away from the Wicklow area for the past fortnight for personal reasons);
1) The withdrawl of pistol certs is not only fully legal under the CJB, we were talking about just this problem in the CJB thread. It's not pleasant to have your concerns validated like this

2) The CJB (now the Firearms Act 2006) is in force. The parts which are not in force yet do not apply here. So the idea that the DC will throw this out on a prima facia examination is a bit off. Odds are that they'd be more likely to support the Gardai here, because the new Act is quite specific in saying that the Gardai can apply conditions to the licence; and saying the range must be inspected could hold up under that. It is not the section 4A part of the Act though (that isn't in force yet), so you might have a case that might delay things for a month or two. At most. And if pressed, the Minister could sign the SI today if he wanted to.

Best method of approach here may well be to get ranges certified by the Gardai and just get it over with. It's a bit late now that the Act is passed to be shooting and yelling, unless you want to spend your money on soliciters and barristers rather than shooting

Sparks

Clare gunner wrote:

Hmmm,judging books by their covers and all that.

True, but I've been hearing stories back and forth for a few months now of a new breed of rifle shooters who go out, buy thousands of euros worth of top-of-the-line rifles and then destroy them in a single day's shooting by running lots of rounds through without due care and cleaning for lack of knowlege of how to shoot properly. So far it's all funny ha-ha, but there's always been the underlying "what if someone with no training damages more than the firearm?" question being put at the end. I won't say the concerns are fully justified, but I'd have a lot more tolerance for a bit of caution on the part of the dealers at the moment.

After all, we've not had pistols for 30-odd years here. The more safety courses we run, the more training people get, the better in my humble opinion.

Degsy

Its not just pistols either,rifles and shotguns are still lethal and the ability to get a licence does not imply any safety training whatsoever,i recently watched somebody out shooting rabbits with his expensive,fully accesorised .22 shooting THROUGH a hedge.When i pointed out the folly of doing this he said "ah sure there's nobody on the other side"!!!

conce452

Sevral people have panicked and handed pistols in as the letter from the inspector requested. I have talked to many pistol shooters across the country and this seems to be unique to Wicklow and only to the part of Wicklow that is under superintendent Roche. Every single individual in this area with a licenced pistol (.22 or center fire) has been sent a letter over a week ago insisting that they hand them in within 21 days "under the 1925 Firearms Act". I found out this morning that this inspector is a "lone ranger" and has no approval to do this whatsoever from the department of Justice. They are telling him to row back and issue licences asap, however nothing will be done until the super is back from holidays on monday next. Most people are not going to hand pistols in and pretend not to have recieved the letter. Solicitors letters were sent to him on Tuesday last.

chem

All gun owners in my area were asked to bring there firearms into the station so the numbers could be checked with that on the renew licence. This is the 1st time this has ever happened in my 10yrs of owning guns. No letter was sent out it was just passed on by word of mouth and by been told at the station that you had to go home and get the firearm.

The gard on duty seemed abit out of sorts with at least 5 men in the station with at least 2 guns or more each.

Has this happened to anyone before? Or why might this be? Area is Ardee Co. Louth and comes under the Navan super.

allnight_2002

chem wrote:

All gun owners in my area were asked to bring there firearms into the station so the numbers could be checked with that on the renew licence. This is the 1st time this has ever happened in my 10yrs of owning guns. No letter was sent out it was just passed on by word of mouth and by been told at the station that you had to go home and get the firearm.

This happened to me last year and some of my friend have to do it this yea. It is to check that the S/N on guns match the papper work and that the gun was in the possion of the licence holder.

While i was there with my 2 guns last year this fellow shows up with a side by side as old as the hills. It was his grandfathers. The gun hadnever seen a drop of oil in all it life by the condition it was in. The poor lad could not disassemble the shotgun to check the S/N. The local garda ask me to have a look at it to see if i could find the S/N on it. But i Failed to disassemble it. The realse system was locked solid with age and neglect.:eek:

FLAG

This is reasonable practice, it appears that they pick a few districts each year and require all firearms owners to bring in their firearms to verify serial numbers, it is really an audit to check the accuracy of their files, it is reasonable and should be complied with. A few years ago we were asked to investigate the legality of this and it came back as reasonable from the solicitor.

A bit of kop on is required however, if you are the owner of several firearms, try not to land in the Garda Station reception, generally the sort of individual on our side of the counter would be very interested in someone showing off their wears, I knew of some one who requested the garda to view the seial number from the boot of his car, in the car park of the station, the guard had no issue and it saved dragging 7 guns into the station reception.

Cooperation is advised.

Rovi

We had to do it here in Portlaoise District 10 or so years ago, approximately.
My brother and I had 2 rifles and 2 shotguns between us at the time, and the Garda at the desk had us land them up on the counter for him to have a look :rolleyes:

Clare gunner

Brilliant firearms saftey concisiousness for gun owners by the Gardai ,I must say!!!:mad: :mad:
Pitch up at the station with a lot of long or short gun cases over a period of time.All any copped on criminal has to do is sit out the local cop shop and tail back anyone he sees carrying gun slips from and to their cars,back to their homes. I think this is one thing that shooters should object to strongly.If the Gardai want to verify their records,they can come down to a shooters house and verify the numbers there.They did this when we had two murders here within a mile at the beginning of the year.The local lads called around and checked the serial numbers.Exactly because they were worried that the opposition was checking out the station for easy pickings.

Keelan

Had my SN checked on my rifles and shotgun, 2 years ago at my local station.
Keelan.

maglite

aparently there are alot of farmers who have guns go missing and are too afraid or dont know they are missing

so presenting the gun makes alot of scence also it might give the gards an idea as to how safe you are with a gun and if you can care for one that comment about the rusted gun should have been delt with but i know of no course that he could have been instructed on its care

jcatony

original_psycho wrote:

Point of Information:

This is one district so lets not tar them all with the same brush

My local garda has bent over backwards to help me with my applications and process. He fully supports target shooting, and has been very helpful in all my dealings with him

Same goes for the Super in the club I deal with. He has always helped in any paperwork problem, and is really interested in the sport.

As for confirmation: until i hear from a source like CivDef, Sparks etc.. and I hear the whole story, no direct comments will be passed by me

Same with my super. Very reasonable and on the ball when it comes to licence applications. A pro shooter who actually knows what he's talking about. They're not all bad!

Clare gunner

maglite wrote:

aparently there are alot of farmers who have guns go missing and are too afraid or dont know they are missing

Hate to say it,without being lynched by our farming friends here,but some farmers look after their equipment abyssmlly,so I wouldnt be surprised that there are some guns out there that would pass for WW1 battle field finds.

so presenting the gun makes alot of scence also it might give the gards an idea as to how safe you are with a gun and if you can care for one that comment about the rusted gun should have been delt with but i know of no course that he could have been instructed on its care

That would also be a brilliant idea if we could bring that in with the NCT.

flight93

Is this the thin edge of the wedge????