Lets mock Corks gantries

Chris_533976

Ok theres been a lot of anti being given to the gantries in Dublin, especially the ones that make drivers go in the fast lane to get somewhere.

Cork has its fair share of stupidly designed gantries, some even for the new Kinsale Road flyover. Lets have a laugh at them.

Now I'm not going to fuss about the stupid repitition of information on modern Irish gantries. Although its stupid its everywhere except for this thread


Rule 1 - Dont put gantries on corners. The lane drops then blatently point to the wrong lane. According to this you should get in the middle lane for Dublin, which is rubbish. Not to mention that the road going straight on isnt the N8 yet. Would confuse tourists and make them think they're on the wrong road. Its really still the N25 until the intersection. N8 in brackets please. (Youd have to know the roads to realise the mistake though)



Rule 2 - Get the people designing gantries next to each other to TELL THE OTHER WHAT YOURE DOING. Look at these two examples from the new flyover.

1km out ->



Ok I'll get in the left hand lane as its the slow lane.

500m later ->

Oops, that lane actually doesnt go along the South Ring at all, it goes to the city centre/airport. Whoops! Now only two lanes go across the bridge. Time to swerve dangerously!



A stunning piece of competance there

/me awaits the accidents caused by this.

New flyover is great, the gantries arent At least they use ONE BIG SIGN rather than duplicating the information 3 times.

jhegarty

they all look clear to me.... but then again I travel those roads a few times a week...

Victor

Also note the position of the gantry eastbound at the Pouladuff overbridge (even though its for the next interchange - Kinsale Road), it is before the Pouladuff interchange. While I understand putting it up-traffic from the bridge for visibility reasons, some people will be heading up Pouladuff Road to the city instead of the South City Link Road. It works, but not ideal.

Lennoxschips

i think it's a shame that with all that room on the sign all it says is "South Ring (West)". if you're unfamiliar with the area the "South Ring (West)" means nothing to you. if you're familiar with the area then you're not reading the sign because you know where the road is headed anyway. what you want is a sign with useful information, like "West Cork / Kerry / Ballincollig"

Victor

Nice pics, love the new asphalt.

Chris_533976 wrote:

Where is this? Little Island somewhere? The duplication is daft.

Stupid sign, three lanes, four arrows.

Be very careful at this exit, at the point behind the red car. The two exit lanes suddenly veer to the left, without warning. Then they magicly become three lanes with solid white lines. Yes it reduces people lane-shopping, but it means only lane-shoppers can use the third lane.

murphaph

Chris_533976 wrote:

Arrrrggghh, fcuking complete morons!!! Nevermind the fact that this sign is incorrect and doesn't 'match' the following sign at the diverge, it blatantly contradicts the fcuking road markings beneath it!! The short white lines betwen lane 1 and 2 indicate a lane drop, yet above all three lanes we have a sign indicating a common destination. Once again, MORONS.

At some point, there will be an accident caused by this idiocy.

Good pics chris. If a road scheme built under the supervision of the NRA can be so badly and dangerously wrong, is there any hope for this country's signage?

Chris_533976

Victor wrote:

Nice pics, love the new asphalt.Where is this? Little Island somewhere? The duplication is daft.

Yeah that after Little Island coming towards the tunnel interchange on the N25.

Chris_533976

murphaph wrote:

At some point, there will be an accident caused by this idiocy.

Yeah I predict problems.

Tourists will obviously go in the left lane as its the slow lane officially, but when they get to the second gantry they've to swerve to what was the middle lane to stay on the road they were told they were on :rolleyes:

Victor

murphaph wrote:

The short white lines betwen lane 1 and 2 indicate a lane drop, yet above all three lanes we have a sign indicating a common destination.

Actually that's still the lane merge from the previous interchange.

icdg

If you want to know how a gantry should be designed, the second gantry at M50 J3 Northbound is the ideal- its one of the few actually designed to specification:

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=150&pos=72

These new ones are silly - they encourage drivers (particularly on D2 roads) to keep right (breaking the keep left rule), they duplicate numbers (worse is M50 J3 Southbound which has M50 written four times on three plates) and they're too squashed.

At least no 2 above doesn't duplicate - a more ideal situation...

Chris_533976

Hehe I almost wished theyd duplicated "South Ring West" 3 times to see the backlash on here

murphaph

Victor wrote:

Actually that's still the lane merge from the previous interchange.

You sure? If so, the broken yellow line is then incorrect. If it is a merge lane and eventually joins the main carriageway then it should be continuous yellow until that point of merging, then broken yellow (if trafficking the shoulder is allowed) to indicate the shoulder. How far out of shot does 'lane 1' merge into lane 2 in the above pic? If it doesn't merge and just drops off at the next exit it's an auxilliary lane and shoud be signed as a lane drop. Also, if the 'lane 1' in the pic above merges with lane 2 around the corner then the gantry is still wrong and should just have two downward arrows above lanes 2 & 3 and no downward arrow above 'lane 1' as it's not a actual lane, just a slip. The use of dwnward arrows and upward (135 degree) arrows on the same gantry is contradictory to the TSM in any case. The 135 degree arrow indicates a simple off-slip, with no lane drop. The downward arrow means 'get in lane' and if lane 1 drops off then there should be a downward arrow above it with 'TOGHER' over it. The authority has horribly mixed up it's signage whatever is going on. Here's the relevant bit from the TSM, note that they have bodged the two together on the Cork gantry. Total balls up.......

Chris_533976

The left hand lane on those pics is the slip road coming in from Douglas. It continues under this gantry, stays open for a while, then becomes the two lanes shown in the other pic above of the flyover. So yes, it does become a lane drop. And if I remember correctly the lines are the same in the space between the two gantries pictured.

Yeah they've definatly fudged it. The second pic you posted is how it should be ideally. I think they ignorned that idea though because the lane drop splits in two - the left lane goes to the airport, the right goes to Togher.

Legal nitpicking aside though, it wouldnt be **too** bad with the lane drop wrongly signed, but the fact that they advertise the south ring as being any of the three lanes before advertising it as only two is shameful, and WILL cause very many accidents.

I think I'll email the Council about this, cos this is just an accident waiting to happen.

Chris_533976

lol just noticed. On the first gantry Togher is advertised, on the second, it doesnt appear at all. This gets better by the minute.

Probobly the easiest way to explain the whole situation with the Douglas ramp and the lines is this.

Everyone laugh at my drawing skillz.

Ok the black is the road. The blue is the road lines, clear enough I hope to see which are small lines and which are the bigger ones from the photos.

The green lines are the gantries, in more or less the correct positions.

The yellow arrows are the lanes the gantries tell you to get in for the South Ring. (When I look at it this way its funny how disgraceful it is)

I presume its obvious enough which gantry corresponds to which photo



I dunno, I despair really. They've done an excellent job building a fairly well grade separated system, with 10 lanes floating around in all. Its going to solve traffic problems at the intersection (albeit send them to other roundabouts), and they go and stuff up all their effort with the most retarded gantry constuction and lack of common sense I've ever seen.

murphaph

Thanks for the drawing Chris, that's a straightforward :rolleyes: lane drop alright. Should be just like the second example from the TSM as posted above. How they can get this wrong yet somehow get the (what you would think) more difficult lane markings perfectly correct! Signing TOGHER on the first gantry and not on the second is also totally contradictory to the TSM and is a shameful error. I'm sick of these clowns wasting tens of thousands of our money on shoddy signs like these.

Chris_533976

hahahaaaaa to add insult to injury I've found another error (!)

Look at the very first pic I've posted. There are clear signs on the N25 exit for the tunnel (Dublin, South Ring) that there are traffic lights there and a speed limit restriction.

Now look at both gantries in question here for the flyover. None of them show the presence of traffic lights or even that you have to stop for a roundabout.

So along comes a tourist, gets in the left hand lane for the south ring, realises too late his mistake, plows up the offramp not knowing theres a signalised roundabout there and hurtles straight through the lights.

OMG.

Letter being written tomorrow, this is shamefully hilarious and stupid on behalf of the designers

Lennoxschips

i don't think they even need the first gantry approaching the kinsale flyover. a simple exit sign (airport / city centre / kinsale [the eejits forgot kinsale]) will do.

they don't have exit numbers either, which can be handy for directions

notice also how togher disappears all of a sudden in the second sign (wouldn't most people going to togher get off at the exit after the kinsale roundabout??)

since they insist on using lane drops so much in ireland (which is asking for accidents) they could at least employ clearer line markings. the current ones look too similar.

it's mostly just the little things they've screwed up, but when you add them all together the result is shoddy. and it's a shame, because it needn't be. it's not a case of a lack of money here, that you could understand.

Victor

icdg wrote:

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=150&pos=72

Actually, with a sign like that, when does the 80km/h come into action, at the gantry or at the standard '80' sign?

Victor

Lennoxschips wrote:

i don't think they even need the first gantry approaching the kinsale flyover. a simple exit sign (airport / city centre / kinsale [the eejits forgot kinsale]) will do.

Kinsale is on the R600, not the N28.

notice also how togher disappears all of a sudden in the second sign (wouldn't most people going to togher get off at the exit after the kinsale roundabout??)

No, that exit is now closed.

Lennoxschips

i take it that by that smiley face you agree with me with regards to kinsale

the togher exit is now closed??? does this mean that if i'm coming from the airport to bishopstown that i can no longer take that shortcut down the side of the hill?

Lennoxschips

Victor wrote:

Actually, with a sign like that, when does the 80km/h come into action, at the gantry or at the standard '80' sign?

i'd say that when you see an 80 km/hr sign that means that 80 km/hr applies 'now' (at least this is what i was taught). in that case they now have a road with different speeds for different lanes

Chris_533976

Lennoxschips wrote:

the togher exit is now closed??? does this mean that if i'm coming from the airport to bishopstown that i can no longer take that shortcut down the side of the hill?

Not sure about the hill, but if you're coming from the tunnel, to get to Togher, you have to come off the South Ring, go around the Kinsale Road roundabout and take the road there. You can no longer take the old Togher turnoff FROM the dual carriageway direct. You now HAVE to go around the roundabout.

daveirl

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Victor

Lennoxschips wrote:

i take it that by that smiley face you agree with me with regards to kinsale

Yes and no. Kinsale is not on the N28, but maybe it should be and maybe it should be signed anyway. However, the sign is getting crowded.

the togher exit is now closed??? does this mean that if i'm coming from the airport to bishopstown that i can no longer take that shortcut down the side of the hill?

You can still go Kinsale Road-Forge Hill-Bishopstown. However, if you want to go Douglas-Togher, you exit at the Kinsale Raod Interchange, join the third carriageway and then exit at Pouladuff Road. See

Victor wrote:

Layout http://www.corkcorp.ie/ourservices/roads/pdf/eis_pg3.pdf

Other information http://www.corkcorp.ie/ourservices/roads/kinsale_roundabout.shtml

Lennoxschips

that's a very confusing junction, with those really long slip-roads that overlap exits.

reminds me of when i got off an exit early on the M50 south in Dublin. i got back on thinking i'd be able to get off immiediately at the next exit, but the slip road brought me beyond the next exit. this was near leopardstown road

daveirl

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