Make our voices heard?

esskay

I, personally, am sick to death of the blatant disregard the U.S. Government shows for the opinions of the rest of the world as regards it's foreign policy. Other governments and peoples protest and have discussions but they pay no attention. Their own citizens protest and discuss, but to no avail. I suggest it's time we make ourselves heard via a different medium,the one held most dear by many Americans and especially their government, money.
It's time IMHO to start a boycott of all things American, to make our voice hear through the only medium likely to have an impact on the American people and those who make decisions in the U.S. Govt. The idea is to show the American Govt and people how the decisions they make regarding foreign nations can have repercussions that will come back to affect themselves and the country in which they reside. By boycotting American companies I hope we can make America aware, in a noticeable way, of the anger which many people feel for the U.S. as I am sure our previous attempts at protesting U.S. decisions are probably not even reported widely in the U.S. media. But, if Americans start losing their jobs, American companies start losing money hand over fist, they might just sit up and take notice. They need to pay attention and make an informed decision as to who should be running the country of which they are so proud. Plus, the U.S. Military complex gets a lot of funding from the taxes paid by the American people and American companies. A decrease in tax revenue might make it harder for the U.S. to wage war on foreign soil and make them concentrate more on the problems they have within their own borders.
Firstly, I am interested to see what you think of this idea. Secondly, I am looking for suggestions on companies that could be boycotted. All help appreciated :-)

Sleepy

Why do you think American's are always going on about a trade defecit? They import far more than they export. They also export a HUGE amount of jobs to other countries, look at our own economy, we're massively reliant on American foreign investment. You take down the American economy, you take down the world economy. It's as simple as that.

I appreciate the idea of trying to influence America somehow but the fact is they're too big and too powerful to have to pay attention unless every other country in the world allied against them which is never going to happen.

IMHO, the only way to influence America is to take control of it's media. Take over News Corp alone and you could educate the average American enough to make the war so unpopular their leaders would be forced to withdraw.

Unfortunately, you'd need billions to do this.

esskay

I am not suggesting taking down the Govt, just making our influence heard. If anything it's the media that will be the ones that tell the american people that there government is costing them their jobs. Offhand I can think of four industries that if their profits plumetted would make the news.
1. Fast food, mickey D's being the obvious target
2. Film 7 TV industry. Imagine the next few Hollywood blockbusters/TV series flopping due to protest
3. Software industry. This area grosses more each year than the movie business and it's one we can affect ourselves.
4. Cosmetics/Fashion industry. Another one likely to get press attention if it's boycotted.

The idea is to make ourselves heard rather than serious economic santcions.

Sleepy

McDonalds source a lot of their ingredients in the countries they're based in and provide employment for many of those most in need of them. You'd harm our economy just as much if not more than the states.

Films - our cinemas, video stores etc. would all suffer badly too.

Software - uhm, how many people are working in Microsoft in Dublin?

Cosmetics / Fashion - goodbye thousands of jobs...

We'd make ourselves heard but it'd be cutting our noses off to spite our face.

InFront

I like the idea of an American boycott, however as other posters have said, and Im sure you would agree, an all-out boycott is not feasable. Ireland and Europe depends extremely heavily on the US economy over here. As does Asia.

Maybe an effective and more achievable thing might be to boycott a certain industry that will affect Americans but not really us. I think film is one such area. In relation to other industries, especially the software industry, a boycott would not have a significant knock on effect here. And hey, the cinemas could always import movies from Bollywood:D

A boycott of the film industry would force media attention in the United States, more so than a boycott of cosmetics or many other consumer products imo.

dave2pvd

esskay wrote:

By boycotting American companies I hope we can make America aware, in a noticeable way, of the anger which many people feel for the U.S. [\QUOTE]

Did you type that on a PC running Windows?

esskay

dave2pvd wrote:

Did you type that on a PC running Windows?

I did, but only cause I am travelling at the moment and using a laptop I bought in australia. I use Mandrake Linux (a french/brazilian product) at home and I paid for it too. I don't see people boycotting Windows as the use of Linux is not an easy alternative for most users, but how about a boycott of the Xbox? Its a Microsoft product too and a failure in sales there would make the press.

I am not suggesting an all out boycott, just one that will make us heard. And as I said in my first post, its advice I am looking for. So far one person has agreed that boycotting the film industry would make us heard, what else will have an affect? If we support films from other countries that will promote more film production from those countries and lessen the blow to video stores and cinema's in this country.

There is a lot of American investment in this country and there is no denying that, in Sligo, the american corporation Abbot is the biggest employer by far. Saying that, they pay no tax. the staff wages is about the only money that will make it to the irish economy. The main reason an American coroporation sets up in Ireland is because it benefits them, I don't have a problem with that.

Sleepy made the point that boycotting certain industries will mean a loss of jobs. As regards McDonalds, if ther were to close I am sure an enterprising Irish person could open a fast food joint to fill the gap, providing employemnt and business to suppliers.
To answer the Microsoft question, there are over 1,200 Microsoft employees based at the campus together with 400 full time contractors. A boycott would not affect most of them, Microsoft will continueto make money no matter what we do. If we could lessen the amount they make that might make us heard.

sleepy wrote:

Cosmetics / Fashion - goodbye thousands of jobs...

So what, do you want peole to be employed or do you want people's lives to be saved in the countries where America is stirring ****e?

Squaddy

Coca Cola, owned by the americans and the jews. Pepsi etc.

Also go back to just eating spuds.

esskay

Squaddy wrote:

Coca Cola, owned by the americans and the jews.

I stopped drinking coke years ago when I found out there are 44 teaspoons of sugar in a 2L bottle, how bad is that for your health?:eek: Good suggestion though.

Squaddy

esskay wrote:

I stopped drinking coke years ago when I found out there are 44 teaspoons of sugar in a 2L bottle, how bad is that for your health?:eek: Good suggestion though.

Very very bad. I think its one of the reasons i failed my leaving cert. I was drinking so much of that sh!te that i was getting headaches and stomach pains, i just couldnt concentrate.

Anyway back onto the topic.. its very hard to boycott american goods when almost everything is american!

esskay

Squaddy wrote:

Very very bad. I think its one of the reasons i failed my leaving cert. I was drinking so much of that sh!te that i was getting headaches and stomach pains, i just couldnt concentrate.

Anyway back onto the topic.. its very hard to boycott american goods when almost everything is american!

There was a guy that I went to school with that drank so much Coke his parents went around to all the shops in town and gave them his picture and told them not to sell him any coke!!!!!!!!!! Mad or what!!!
Is there one american industry we can boycott to acheive the most media attention?

Zillah

EDIT: Damn, my snide comment was already made...

dave2pvd

esskay wrote:

...using a laptop I bought in australia. I use Mandrake Linux (a french/brazilian product) at home and I paid for it too...

You got me there! After I typed my response, I remember thinking...."hmmmm, could be a Linux user. Not likely though...".

As far as the boycotting goes, I think you're pi$$ing in the wind.

Consider this: Are Coke or Microsoft truly American-owned now? They are publically quoted companies, their stock is traded on the stock market. Most of the stock is tied up in fund managers' portfolios, owned by corporations and individuals that could be from anywhere in the world...this is just another aspect of globalisation, I suppose. But, you could say their profits are all repatriated to the US. Perhaps, but keep in mind that a lot of profits are paid to stock-holders in the form of dividends.

Sit tight for a while. The White House will be welcoming in a different shade of grey soon. I am sure there will be a huge perception of change for the good.

Bottle_of_Smoke

To the citizens of the United States of America,

In the light of your failure to elect a suitable President of the USA and
thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your
independence, effective today. Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II
will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths and other
territories. Except Utah, which she does not fancy. Your new prime
minister, The Right Honourable Tony Blair, MP (for the 97.85% of you who
have until now been unaware that there is a world outside your borders)
will appoint a minister for America without the need for further
elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire will
be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed. To aid in
the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are
introduced with immediate effect:

1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary. Then
look up "aluminium". Check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at
just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. The letter 'U' will be
reinstated in words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour', skipping the letter
'U' is nothing more than laziness on your part. Likewise, you will learn
to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters. You will end your
love affair with the letter 'Z' (pronounced 'zed' not 'zee') and the
suffix "ize" will be replaced by the suffix "ise". You will learn that the
suffix 'burgh is pronounced 'burra' e.g. Edinburgh. You are welcome to
respell Pittsburgh as 'Pittsberg' if you can't cope with correct
pronunciation. Generally, you should raise your vocabulary to acceptable
levels. Look up "vocabulary".

Using the same twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as
"like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of
communication. Look up "interspersed". There will be no more 'bleeps' in
the Jerry Springer show. If you're not old enough to cope with bad
language then you shouldn't have chat shows. When you learn to develop
your vocabulary then you won't have to use bad language as often.

2. There is no such thing as "US English". We will let Microsoft know on
your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take account
of the reinstated letter 'u' and the elimination of "-ize".

3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian accents. It
really isn't that hard. English accents are not limited to Cockney,
upper-class twit or Mancunian (Daphne in Frasier). You will also have to
learn how to understand regional accents - Scottish dramas such as
"Taggart" will no longer be broadcast with subtitles. While we're talking
about regions, you must learn that there is no such place as Devonshire in
England. The name of the county is "Devon". If you persist in calling it
Devonshire, all American States will become "shires" e.g. Texasshire,
Floridashire, Louisianashire.



4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as the
good guys. Hollywood will be required to cast English actors to play
English characters. British sitcoms such as "Men Behaving Badly" or "Red
Dwarf" will not be re-cast and watered down for a wishy-washy American
audience who can't cope with the humour of occasional political
incorrectness.

5. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save The Queen",
but only after fully carrying out task 1. We would not want you to get
confused and give up half way through.

6. You should stop playing American "football". There is only one kind of
football. What you refer to as American "football" is not a very good
game. The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your
borders may have noticed that no one else plays "American" football. You
will no longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper
football. Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. It is
a difficult game. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to
play rugby (which is similar to American "football", but does not involve
stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body
armour like pansies). We are hoping to get together at least a US rugby
sevens side by 2005. You should stop playing baseball. It is not
reasonable to host an event called the 'World Series' for a game which is
not played outside of America. Since only 2.15% of you are aware that
there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable.
Instead of baseball, you will be allowed to play a girls' game called
"rounders" which is baseball without fancy team strip, oversized gloves,
collector cards or hotdogs.

7. You should declare war on Quebec and France, using nuclear weapons if
they give you any merde. The 97.85% of you who were not aware that there
is a world outside your borders should count yourselves lucky. The
Russians have never been the bad guys. "Merde" is French for "****". You
will no longer be allowed to own or carry guns. You will no longer be
allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous in public than a vegetable
peeler. Because we don't believe you are sensible enough to handle
potentially dangerous items, you will require a permit if you wish to
carry a vegetable peeler in public.

8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 2nd will be a new
national holiday, but only in England. It will be called "Indecisive Day".

9. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and it is for your
own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we mean.
All road intersections will be replaced with roundabouts. You will start
driving on the left with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go
metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables.
Roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of
humour.

10. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries
are not real chips. Fries aren't even French, they are Belgian though
97.85% of you (including the guy who discovered fries while in Europe) are
not aware of a country called Belgium. Those things you insist on calling
potato chips are properly called "crisps". Real chips are thick cut and
fried in animal fat. The traditional accompaniment to chips is beer which
should be served warm and flat. Waitresses will be trained to be more
aggressive with customers.

11. As a sign of penance 5 grams of sea salt per cup will be added to all
tea made within the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, this quantity to be
doubled for tea made within the city of Boston itself.

12. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually
beer at all, it is lager. From November 1st only proper British Bitter
will be referred to as "beer", and European brews of known and accepted
provenance will be referred to as "Lager". The substances formerly known
as "American Beer" will henceforth be referred to as "Near-Frozen Knat's
Urine", with the exception of the product of the American Budweiser
company whose product will be referred to as "Weak Near-Frozen Knat's
Urine". This will allow true Budweiser (as manufactured for the last 1000
years in Pilsen, Czech Republic) to be sold without risk of confusion.

13. From December 1st the UK will harmonise petrol (or "Gasoline" as you
will be permitted to keep calling it until April 1st 2005) prices with the
former USA. The UK will harmonise its prices to those of the former USA
and the Former USA will, in return, adopt UK petrol prices (roughly $6/US
gallon - get used to it).

14. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers
or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows
that you're not adult enough to be independent. Guns should only be
handled by adults. If you're not adult enough to sort things out without
suing someone or speaking to a therapist then you're not grown up enough
to handle a gun.

15. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy.

16. Tax collectors from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly
to ensure the acquisition of all revenues due (backdated to 1776).

Thank you for your cooperation.

Terry

esskay, those are great sentiments, but this is celtic tiger era Ireland and most people couldn't give a damn where their new pc's or big suv's or coca cola comes from. they just want it all and want it 5 minutes ago.
trying to organise a boycott of american products would fail instantly.
if most people really cared about the actions of the american government in relation to the stability of the middle east, then you would have a lot more people at shannon airport protesting against the stop overs of american military flights there.
if you want someone to blame, you should look a bit closer to home. our own government are guilty of allowing these planes to land and they are the only ones who can stop it.
unfortunately they are too cowardly to take such a stance on this because they fear a backlash from american companies currently situated Ireland.

walshb

Hey Smoke, A+++ for that POST!!!. Not so much for the Anti American
nature of it, but the sheer volume and thought!!!

Trode

esskay wrote:

I, personally, am sick to death of the blatant disregard the U.S. Government shows for the opinions of the rest of the world as regards it's foreign policy. Other governments and peoples protest and have discussions but they pay no attention. Their own citizens protest and discuss, but to no avail. I suggest it's time we make ourselves heard via a different medium,the one held most dear by many Americans and especially their government, money.

Do you think it is okay for one state to try and force another to change it's policies to suit the interests of the first state rather than their own? Would it be acceptable if American companies threatened the Irish government that they would pull out unless Ireland fell in line with America's foreign policy?

I'm not defending American foreign policy by any means, I'm just wondering why, as a non-American citizen, you think you have a right to change it, or why they should listen to the opinions of the population of an entirely separate country on what they should do.

walshb

Trode, you hit the nail on the head. The biggest reason as to why our planet is constantly in trouble and constantly on the brink of war. Because of our interfering in foreign countries policies, cultures and views. This does not only apply to the US. Ireland is also guilty of sticking its beak in where it shouldn't. Look at bloody Africa and the missions. But they are doing it under the guise of 'charity' and goodwill.

Trode

walshb wrote:

Trode, you hit the nail on the head. The biggest reason as to why our planet is constantly in trouble and constantly on the brink of war. Because of our interfering in foreign countries policies, cultures and views. This does not only apply to the US. Ireland is also guilty of sticking its beak in where it shouldn't. Look at bloody Africa and the missions. But they are doing it under the guise of 'charity' and goodwill.

I don't fully agree with that. I'm all for international cooperation and even intervention when necessary. I was objecting to the OP's argument that America was in the wrong and should be punished for not bowing to the demands of a subset of a foreign populace, or for placing the desires of its own citizens above those of another country.

jady88

walshb wrote:

Trode, you hit the nail on the head. The biggest reason as to why our planet is constantly in trouble and constantly on the brink of war. Because of our interfering in foreign countries policies, cultures and views. This does not only apply to the US. Ireland is also guilty of sticking its beak in where it shouldn't. Look at bloody Africa and the missions. But they are doing it under the guise of 'charity' and goodwill.

What utter trash!!! I dont' mean to be harsh but to be honest this comment desreves it. Internationalism has been the back bone of the realitive world peace we have enjoyed over the last 50 years.

Perhaps you were ignorant of American foreign policy before WW2 but i will enlighten you! Isolationalism was practised then and America made its best effort to remain out of world and European affairs and we all know how that ended.

And are we supposed to just ignore the horrific cruelty in foreign lands eg IRan or Zimbabwae! Beacuse i believe it is our duty to speak out our brothers and sister s across the world

athena 2000

walshb wrote:

Hey Smoke, A+++ for that POST!!!. Not so much for the Anti American
nature of it, but the sheer volume and thought!!!

Washb, Smoke probably got that post from 3 year old world junk e-mailout - Spamfest 2003. That's when I got mine. It does have some funny bits.

walshb

jady88 wrote:

What utter trash!!! I dont' mean to be harsh but to be honest this comment desreves it. Internationalism has been the back bone of the realitive world peace we have enjoyed over the last 50 years.

Perhaps you were ignorant of American foreign policy before WW2 but i will enlighten you! Isolationalism was practised then and America made its best effort to remain out of world and European affairs and we all know how that ended.

And are we supposed to just ignore the horrific cruelty in foreign lands eg IRan or Zimbabwae! Beacuse i believe it is our duty to speak out our brothers and sister s across the world

I have no problem with International help for countries. It's the ego trippers and power trippers and the dictating of the likes of the US, Britain and even Ireland in the affairs of these countries that is not right. Help them, but taking over and trying to be the 'big shot' is only causing problems in these countries. Look at bloody Iraq now. It's an absolute hell on earth because of foreign interference. That's only one example. And as for these catholic missions in Africa brainwashing the locals and desperately trying to convert them. The trouble they have caused will last for eternity.

esskay

The reason I think the U.S. govt should be made to listen is because their policies are affecting us all, not just the U.S. They are de-stabilising entire countries and all in the name of profit and increasing their sphere of influence. The trail of injustice can be seen in South America, Asia and the middle east where their resource grabbing policies preach democracy and humanitarian causes but only serve to further their interests. The are setting a precedent for allowing military force to be used free from the constraints of international law.
We have all heard the "reasons" for U.S. intervention but it´s all bull. They punish countries who dare to think for themselves and reward the ones that follow their lead.
Governments are supposed to voice the will of the people but currently their biggest aim is to subvert the minds of their voters. TV, consumerism and personal gain are all blocking our view of the bigger picture. We are content to sit back and let what happens happen with no thought to the world we will leave to our children.
Something NEEDS to be done, and sooner rather than later. If a boycott is not the answer what is? As a country Ireland stands to loose a large amount if they stand against the US but there are huge markets in South America and Asia that could fill that gap. Lets start teaching more spanish and asian languages in our schools to facilitate the change perhaps. These developing countries are currently being robbed by the U.S. and would definately benefit from increased trade with other countries and I am sure many of these opressed peoples would prefer to deal with someone rather than the U.S. too.

How many of you if you had the choice would vote for a political party with an anti-american agenda? A party with more than profit on its agenda? I am so pissed at the current state of affairs I would be willing to get out and try something just to try to open a few more eyes to the bigger picture. The green party did it on environmental issues, could humanitarian issues make the govt agenda also?

Sorry for typos, I am hopping mad and typing fast

Generic_Dave

/QUOTE/ Perhaps you were ignorant of American foreign policy before WW2 but i will enlighten you! Isolationalism was practised then and America made its best effort to remain out of world and European affairs and we all know how that ended. /QUOTE/

While I agree that the past fifty years have been a time of realitive peace when compared to the first half of the 20th century, America's been heavy-handed in it's foreign policy for the entire duration of that fifty years. Whatever people might say, the last fifty years have been bloody. Where-ever you go in the world, the mark of Americian intervention is everywhere. Aside from the obvious, funding the Mujhadeen in Afghanistan, selling weapons to Saddam to gas Kurds and make a decade long war within Iran. I mean pretty much all of South America is recovering from Dictators because of American intervention. The Mid-East is in tatters over America's support for opressive regimes such as Saudi-Arabia and Israel.


The American government will not listen to it's own people (Bush jnr's 2000 "victory" is a case in point). It will not listen to it's allies, I mean every NATO country (bar Britain) and almost the entire UN disagreed with the Invasion of Iraq, they didn't care, they harrassed aload of no-body countries into that "Coalition of the Willing", oh and there was Britain too. But to the crux of it, we can't change what America does. The only thig that will convince the Bush-cadre that they're wrong would be a stark and decisive loss in one of their "War on Terror" theatres. Which, to be fair, just won't happen. No military in the world could go head to head with the US and come off the better.

The economic boycott of America products would not effect the American economy in a huge way. I mean, when was the last time you saw an American car on the road, I saw a corvette for the first time in Ireland last week. And also, how many "American" brands are actually made in America, mostly I find they're made locally or in Asian counrtries, China, Thailand, Malaysia. I actually don't recall the last time I bought something that said "Made in America". And even things such as films and games have a huge market in America, probably enough to get them through some lean spells. Though alot of games are made outside the United States, so a boycott of the games industry would probably be ill-advised also.

At least we know we've got about two years without any more "War on Terror" theatres of war opening by American choice, they're too bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan to invade anywhere else. So roll on 2008 and lets hope the Democrats get their act together or maybe they'll even realise that a two party system doesn't seem to be the best was forward and open up their political system a bit.

But back to the point I really think boycotts aren't going to work, they're basicly unoffical sanctions and if we look around the world sanctions haven't done much good. In Iraq, Saddam stayed in power for a decade under them, Castro in Cuba's been going for 50 years and Kim Il-Jung in N. Korea's been there awhile too, albeit with Chinese help. I suppose you could argue that in a democratic country the economy slide and job losses would get the man on the street to vote a change, but if you look at American business news so many companies in the states lay people off, General Motors recently, that I can't see it changing.

esskay

Generic_Dave wrote:

At least we know we've got about two years without any more "War on Terror" theatres of war opening by American choice, they're too bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan to invade anywhere else. So roll on 2008 and lets hope the Democrats get their act together or maybe they'll even realise that a two party system doesn't seem to be the best was forward and open up their political system a bit.

What makes you think a change in the U.S. administration will make any difference? When clinton and the Democrats were in power there was the whole bosnia mess. It has been reported many times that the claims they used (mass killings) to enter the country on "humantarian" ground were drastically exaggerated.
http://www.radstats.org.uk/no069/article3.htm
imho they all have the same agenda.

Generic_Dave wrote:

But back to the point I really think boycotts aren't going to work, they're basicly unoffical sanctions and if we look around the world sanctions haven't done much good. In Iraq, Saddam stayed in power for a decade under them, Castro in Cuba's been going for 50 years and Kim Il-Jung in N. Korea's been there awhile too, albeit with Chinese help. I suppose you could argue that in a democratic country the economy slide and job losses would get the man on the street to vote a change, but if you look at American business news so many companies in the states lay people off, General Motors recently, that I can't see it changing.

If a boycott is not the answer what do you think of my previous post about a new political party? Could Ireland lead the way by example?