Shocked By What I Saw In St.james Hospital

j2u

Hi my name is andrew,on friday midday i got a phone call from my brother saying that my father had chest pains and had gone to st.james hospital,eventually after being sent several places we found him in the cat lab and then in the coronary care unit and we were told he had had a heart attack and they operated on him and thankfully the artery that was blocked is no longer blocked and he will be ok,now let me tell u the things i saw we were told that we cant just go through the doors for the ccu and that we had to ring the buzzer for ccu and ask if it was ok to see him,the buzzer is out of order so we had to go further down the hall and ring another buzzer ,eventualy it was answered but they told us he was in the cat lab all the way downstairs down another corridor,when were waiting got their and saw him their were we saw him there and heard the news but they were bringing him back to ccu to rest there so whilst waitin g for the lift to get back up we were waiting with two nurses ,one was showing us where to go and the other was going up thhe same lift with an elderly woman in a wheelchair,she looked so frail,apparently the lifts had been broken for sometime andthought they may have to tke the stairs we could have walked but imagine the nurses haveing to carry a frail elderly woman in a whellchair because they only have two lifts and both of them are out of order???this is insane i overheard the two nurse complaining how they had already compained several times to cao but didnt care.one of the lifts did come eventually after the nurse banged the shutter doors closed,so we took the lift and then got up to ccu,we had to wait about half an hour to see him again,although i was eager to see him i understood that docters may be talking to him or he had to rest a bit but what really bothered me was what i saw next,a man dragging a large combi of rubbish bags and a big green bin(the big wide recycling kind )im not sure if he stopped to talk to someone but he route took hi right by the ccu doors COMPLETLY BLOCKING the doors which means that if somebody was rushed in or out of ccu they would have to wait until this guy bring rubbish along the floor to move ,he had stopped right at the door,like not only would you not get by with a bed a person would not even have squeezed through,and the toilets were in a bad way aswell at least the male toilets i dont know of the females to comment ,the doctors and nurse were very nice and helpfull but why is it that we apparently have like the second richest economy in europe and our healthcare is like this,**** FIANNA FAIL

Nehpets

I don't mean to be rude but it would be easier for everyone if you used a little punctuation. I can make out something is wrong with the lifts and your Dad will be ok..

Karl Hungus

Christ, what an unreadable mess!

Ruu_Old

Your post is a little hard to read OP, regardless of that I hope everything goes ok with your Dad. Unfortunately theres probably hospitals in worse condition than St.James.

InFront

The editor of the Med Journal has described the Irish approach as 'Second in wealth, second last in Health' after it was announced that, Ireland is 2nd in the global Wealth league. Apparently, he said, The London School of Economics recently found Ireland to be 25th out of 26 european countries with regards to the health service. The contrast is absolutely ridiculous. I think Mary Harney is the most capable health Minister we've had under FFPD, but if even she cannot clear up this mess who can?

Sorry to hear about your Dad, I hope he's well soon but from personal experience I know St James' is a wonderful hospital, and personally Ive never noticed a hygiene problem there. The story about the two nurses having to carry that old woman themselves is pretty disturbing alright, as are the other shortcomings you mention. Hopefully people will remember this kind of thing at the next election. Without getting too political, I think the FFPD coalition would have serious arrogance to make grand promises on the health service in the next election, I for one would simply not believe a word they tell us.

junkyard

In my experience most of these hospitals are top heavy with office staff and advisers and thats where a lot of the money seems to go. The government has a lot to answer for alright the way they squander money on functions in Farnleigh House and the like and on their personal expenses. As I've said before I don't think doctors, nurses, fire and rescue personnel get paid half enough for what they have to do and the hours they have to work. When you look at those fat overpayed b***ards that are supposed to be running our country, it makes my stomach turn.:mad:

Huggles

junkyard wrote:

In my experience most of these hospitals are top heavy with office staff and advisers and thats where a lot of the money seems to go. The government has a lot to answer for alright the way they squander money on functions in Farnleigh House and the like and on their personal expenses. As I've said before I don't think doctors, nurses, fire and rescue personnel get paid half enough for what they have to do and the hours they have to work. When you look at those fat overpayed b***ards that are supposed to be running our country, it makes my stomach turn.:mad:

110% spot on! :mad:

netwhizkid

j2u wrote:

**** FIANNA FAIL

Ditto^^ See My Sig

bounty

big blob of text

Simon201

Dont know what you're on about but you won todays longest sentence prize!

Guy:Incognito

junkyard wrote:

In my experience most of these hospitals are top heavy with office staff and advisers and thats where a lot of the money seems to go. The government has a lot to answer for alright the way they squander money on functions in Farnleigh House and the like and on their personal expenses. As I've said before I don't think doctors, nurses, fire and rescue personnel get paid half enough for what they have to do and the hours they have to work. When you look at those fat overpayed b***ards that are supposed to be running our country, it makes my stomach turn.:mad:

While I agree wages are low for nurses and the like, the fact is, the wage structure is clearly set out before people join yet they still do, so my sympathy gets watered down a bit. I disagree with this whole culture of strike and wlak out that only serve to line the pockets of union leaders. I can tell you the guys in siptu arent starving.

I was told when I started my job how much I will be paid. Why am I then entitled to whinge and moan or strike for more money? GO elswhere.

I know a few guys in the fire service. If your not sceduled for a sunday but are called in, you get somewhere in the region of €650 for the day.One guy was telling me how he "only" gets €450 because he's only in the job a short while.

Lust4Life

J2U, my hubby had health problems this past winter and we spent a great deal of time at the hospital. (I'm in America though).
When it is your loved one going through the hospital drama you tend to notice more details.
In my case, it lead me to persue a job at the hospital so that I could become part of the solution instead of ignoring the problems.

Maybe this could lead you to a change in carreers as well?

Hope your dad gets the best of care and recovers nicely. Keep him away from fatty foods, smoking and the like. And maybe encourage him to get some regular exercise with you when he recovers. A short daily walk will allow him many more years with you!

Hugs,

L4L

Tusky

Cant read that, too hard on the eyes.

Quackles

I've had bad experiences too, don't get me started on hospitals >:( Not one bad word about the nursing staff, though, they do the best with the shoddy tools they're handed.

Sam Vimes

InFront wrote:

The editor of the Med Journal has described the Irish approach as 'Second in wealth, second last in wealth' after it was announced that, Ireland is 2nd in the global Wealth league. Apparently, he said, The London School of Economics recently found Ireland to be 25th out of 26 european countries with regards to the health service. The contrast is absolutely ridiculous. I think Mary Harney is the most capable health Minister we've had under FFPD, but if even she cannot clear up this mess who can?

i assume you meant 'Second in wealth, second last in health' ?

Terry

are we the second richest country in the world?
in what context would that be?

LundiMardi

sorry, i just couldn't read your post, gave up after about 5 lines... but i hope your dad gets better.

Dampsquid

LundiMardi wrote:

sorry, i just couldn't read your post, gave up after about 5 lines... but i hope your dad gets better.

He died on line 6

solas

I'm just thinking out loud here, this is not a factual statement.
20 years ago when the population was a little more than a million or so less than it is now the healthcare was pretty ok, Ireland wasn't anywhere near one of the worlds richest country's yet everyone was looked after.

I studied healthcare/health managment very breifly (year) and there was great emphasis placed on prevention rather than cure. The budget at that time devoted two thirds of financing towards treatment (hospitals/general healthcare) and there was discussion in adapting it so that half went to preventative methods, ie:advertisment/enducation and enforcing personal wellbeing programs. It was hoped that people would take responsibilty for their own health, eat well, smoke and drink less, excercise reqularly and prioritise health consciousness in general and consequently require less medical care later in life. They didn't take into account the human stupidity factor.

Although the concept is sound, as the old saying goes, you can't teach old dogs new tricks, the only ones who would benefit from such a plan would be a health conscious generation somwhere down the line.
In the meantime the current healthcare crisis goes from bad to worse.

Where I'm from the general hospital which serves an entire region (three counties) has spent ten years trying to allocate a radiotherapy unit. My own father who died from cancer used to have to travel in the back of an ambulance to dublin with tubes sticking out of open flesh, for treatment that lasted an hour and then drive back down again.

A new private hospital is currently under construction which promises all mod cons, including all neccessary pallative care and I don't think people are going to complain about having to pay for it. Ireland is a very wealthy nation and no doubt those who have the cash will be relieved to see they can now attend to their needs. It should also take a lot of pressure off the regional hospital and hopefully the general standards of care will increase as a result.

There is a solution in there somewhere.

Mossy Monk

j2u wrote:

**** FIANNA FAIL

don't forget that the minister in charge of all this is PD so **** them too

LundiMardi

Dampsquid wrote:

He died on line 6

funny guy

BuffyBot

It's like textual diarrhoea

Too long, no punctuation. didnt read.

Our man in Havana

Mossy Monk wrote:

don't forget that the minister in charge of all this is PD so **** them too

Question is would you f**k her too?

Nidge

I'm glad I'm not alone in finding this nigh on unintelligible...

InFront

Commander Vimes wrote:

i assume you meant 'Second in wealth, second last in health' ?

I did indeed, just spotted that

Julep AFAIK the Global Wealth League takes into account the market value of the privately owned assets of a state's citizens. The value of property and land has basically given us this status from what I understand. Only the Japanese are ahead of Ireland on the list of potential personal wealth.

neoB

Had to go over that a few times, until I highlighted the text :P.
Thats a damn shame, and it makes me sick, places such as hospitals are supose to help people and what not and its a bad enviroment or people stop caring . I know of one in my area that is ****, nurses on their asses doing nothing and get up when they feel like it,(ran a few patients there) and in the rooms blood on the walls, looked like fecal matter as well and dirty instruments. :mad:
Hope your dad is doing great and has a speedy recovery.

Darragh29

j2u wrote:

Hi my name is andrew,on friday midday i got a phone call from my brother saying that my father had chest pains and had gone to st.james hospital,eventually after being sent several places we found him in the cat lab and then in the coronary care unit and we were told he had had a heart attack and they operated on him and thankfully the artery that was blocked is no longer blocked and he will be ok,now let me tell u the things i saw we were told that we cant just go through the doors for the ccu and that we had to ring the buzzer for ccu and ask if it was ok to see him,the buzzer is out of order so we had to go further down the hall and ring another buzzer ,eventualy it was answered but they told us he was in the cat lab all the way downstairs down another corridor,when were waiting got their and saw him their were we saw him there and heard the news but they were bringing him back to ccu to rest there so whilst waitin g for the lift to get back up we were waiting with two nurses ,one was showing us where to go and the other was going up thhe same lift with an elderly woman in a wheelchair,she looked so frail,apparently the lifts had been broken for sometime andthought they may have to tke the stairs we could have walked but imagine the nurses haveing to carry a frail elderly woman in a whellchair because they only have two lifts and both of them are out of order???this is insane i overheard the two nurse complaining how they had already compained several times to cao but didnt care.one of the lifts did come eventually after the nurse banged the shutter doors closed,so we took the lift and then got up to ccu,we had to wait about half an hour to see him again,although i was eager to see him i understood that docters may be talking to him or he had to rest a bit but what really bothered me was what i saw next,a man dragging a large combi of rubbish bags and a big green bin(the big wide recycling kind )im not sure if he stopped to talk to someone but he route took hi right by the ccu doors COMPLETLY BLOCKING the doors which means that if somebody was rushed in or out of ccu they would have to wait until this guy bring rubbish along the floor to move ,he had stopped right at the door,like not only would you not get by with a bed a person would not even have squeezed through,and the toilets were in a bad way aswell at least the male toilets i dont know of the females to comment ,the doctors and nurse were very nice and helpfull but why is it that we apparently have like the second richest economy in europe and our healthcare is like this,**** FIANNA FAIL

I couldn't DISAGREE more with the OP comments above. I had to rush my Dad into St. James a little over a year and a half ago when he collapsed at work. Luckily for him he worked near St. James and within 20 minutes of me bringing him into A & E he was in triage and was diagnosed with an aortic aneurysm. He was dying in front of us and needed surgery within the next half an hour to save his life. He went unconcious again when the nurse was triaging him, and was rushed into a resuscitation room. Within 5 minutes of the resuscitation team receiving him, he had a team of I'd say 5 surgeons around him prepping him for surgery, while at the same time the A & E consultant was telling us how urgently he needed surgery and that he would be dead within minutes if he didn't get it. Within 30 minutes of me driving through the gates of St. James hospital with an unconcious father, he was undergoing an operation that was to last 9 hours.

He spent a month in the ICU and another few weeks in the high dependency unit and never once in the time I was with him there did I see anything that could not be described at the highest standard of healthcare and professionalism. What I did notice however was the sheer number of wasters sitting in A & E when I arrived there who appeared to have had no accident or emergency that warranted them being in A & E. For everyone who seemed to have a genuine need to be there, I'd say there were 10 people who were sitting on their arses who should have gone to their GP. I get annoyed when I hear about people moaning about "the state of the health service", there was nothing wrong with it when I had to bring my Dad to hospital. I often wonder are the people I hear continually moaning, the same people who are sitting in the A & E Dept with a poor mouth on them when they should be going elsewhere???

Stepherunie

As in all things in life you have the best and the worst.

You will see healthcare professionals who go out of there way to help with patients and make them as comfortable as possible and really do work hard at infection control issues etc.


You will see others who don't give a toss and will do nothing only the bare minimum required of them.

I'm a student based in a large hospital in Dublin and a lot of the time I'm the only one who'll attempt to really follow infection control protocols but in saying that when you have a large number of patients coming through and you need them to be seen it's difficult to do everything.

Yes things can be awful sometimes, the stresses that can be placed on healthcare professionals can be immense - with the amount of bad press that we receive from politicians (i refer mainly to Mary Harneys claim that radiographers only work 9 to 5, complete and utter rubbish) about our failure ot help with the A&E crisis. We're also dealing with an irate public, most of whom understand the pressures we are placed under but others who are not so pleasant.

At the end of the day what is needed is strong pressure, even more than is currently there to be placed on the government and Health Service Executive to actually speak the truth and take some definitive action.

stevenmu

OP, while I do agree there are many problems in the health service, I can't see what the hell you're complaining about (and I actually did read the whole thing). You're father fell ill, went into hospital and quickly recieved the treatment he needed. You the complain that you were initially sent to the wrong place, surely this is a simple mistake that can easily happen, given the seriousness of your father's condition isn't it right that they put more effort into moving him quickly than into updating charts and lists of where people are ? You then complain about having to wait half an hour to see him, even though you already realise there's many possible reasons for this ? You also complain that you *almost* had to walk up some stairs (not actually walk up stairs, just almost) because a lift door wasn't completely closed ? Finally you complain about some guy standing in front of a door to talk to someone, fair enough it's not the cleverest of things to do but what do you suggest should be done ? How about 3 seperate and independant enquiries into this outrage ? Or maybe you should have just pointed out to him that he was blocking the door ?

Seriously, have you nothing better to complain about than this ?

dajaffa

Stepherunie wrote:

bad press that we receive from politicians (i refer mainly to Mary Harneys claim that radiographers only work 9 to 5, complete and utter rubbish) about our failure ot help with the A&E crisis.

Oh, have you not heard there's new legislation on the way that makes it punishable by excecution if one fractures an arm/leg/etc outside offfice hours?

Seriously though the health service in Ireland is a joke. The gov keep going on about how many millions/billions are being put into healthcare, but most of that seems to be going into admin etc which does little/nothing to alleviate the problems on the ground.

It's been clear for years that there is a lack of doctors, but only this year (with an election soon *gasp*) have changes been made to increase the number of doctors we train.

Also, with regard to nurses, the working conditions are an absolute disgrace here. This contributes to the lack of Irish trained nurses in our hospitals (I'm not being racist, trained in Ireland. Some of those from other countries aren't trained as well imo). It wouldn't be hard to alleviate this. In Autralia for example, there's a nurse' aid for every 2 patients, so nurses don't have to waste time washing patients, making beds, bringing patients to the toilet etc cause the aids do it).

Also, A+E takes too many patients. One hospital ouside Dublin (can't remember which one) basically has an agreement with the local GPs whereby if the patient goes to their GP, he can send them directly to the designated section (be it cardiology, orthapedics...) so that they dont clog up A+E.

And don't even get me started on the lack of consultants posts. I do agree that the ones currently do to much private work, but in any case, there should be more surgeries and hospitals shouldn't be limited to on consultant in each filed if there is a need for more. There are too many registrars in the country waiting for a counsultants post, and let's face it some of the better ones do go abroad rather than wait here for one and work in our dire system...

InFront

That is true. There seems to be a real hesitation in taking on consultants, and that is part of what is causing a backlog in the system. Many of the almost permanent SHO and Registrar posts are filled by immigrant doctors here as a safety guard, whcih is actually just sticking the health system in the mud. There needs to be real movement on the promotion of NCHDs and yes theres an issue of finance around that, but throw the money at them imo, the country is rich.

There is also an issue of bed space, and with the promotion of NCHDs that might fall, but it isnt going to go away no matter how many consultants we hire.
There needs to be action on both fronts - but it isn't happening, and probably wont happen, under this government in the foreseeable future

The_Minister

I will try to respond to that liquid spurt of verbal diahorria, but it won't be easy.

Firstly I work in a hospital (not in James) so I will draw on my experiences for that.

1) The lifts would not be left out of order for long, only a few hours at most. Food trolleys and equipment (sometimes costing hundreds of thousands) has to go in the lifts and cannot go up the stairs. Every manager would leap down the boss's throut if this happened. A technician would be brought in even if they had to wake him and pay him double.

2)The guy leaving the trolly outside the door is not unusual and would not cause a hazard as he would move it if the patient was heading his way. (With all the shouting he could not help but notice)

3)The toilets are always clean unless someone has been sick and failed to tell anyone.

4) In general hospitals are well-run and maintained.

Interceptor

I'm with stephenmu on this one - I really couldn't see why you bothered starting a thread on this - what next 'The state of coffee machines in Statoil, milk spilled EVERYWHERE and the sugar bowl EMPTY!! DISGRACE'?

I work for a company which makes surgical equipment for coronary surgery. I have been in the cath lab in St James and in most of the others in the country and many in the UK. I can tell you with little hesitation that although the labs in James' are not exactly spacious they are spotlessly clean and managed with supreme efficiency. I know several of the surgeons in St James and when I get a heart attack, I want these guys to treat me.

Hope your father recovers fully and I hope he enjoyed the experience of having his life saved.

'cptr

i71jskz5xu42pb

Stekelly wrote:

While I agree wages are low for nurses and the like, the fact is, the wage structure is clearly set out before people join yet they still do, so my sympathy gets watered down a bit. I disagree with this whole culture of strike and wlak out that only serve to line the pockets of union leaders. I can tell you the guys in siptu arent starving.

I was told when I started my job how much I will be paid. Why am I then entitled to whinge and moan or strike for more money? GO elswhere.

I know a few guys in the fire service. If your not sceduled for a sunday but are called in, you get somewhere in the region of €650 for the day.One guy was telling me how he "only" gets €450 because he's only in the job a short while.

Didn't you get the memo? Nobody is allowed criticise front line staff - nurses, doctors, police men, teachers are right up there with motherhood and apple pie. Wash your mouth out with soap please. It's the faceless bureaucrats that are the cause of ALL of the problems in the civil service. Nothing to do with inflexible, outdated work practices that the various front line groups are unwilling to change. A nce simple problem with a simple solution.

All that said I think there probably could be less bureaucracy and I'd have no problem with some of the front line staff getting paid better based on productivity improvements. Balance and all that ...

Dr Galen

PaschalNee wrote:

Didn't you get the memo? Nobody is allowed criticise front line staff - nurses, doctors, police men, teachers are right up there with motherhood and apple pie. Wash your mouth out with soap please. It's the faceless bureaucrats that are the cause of ALL of the problems in the civil service. Nothing to do with inflexible, outdated work practices that the various front line groups are unwilling to change. A nce simple problem with a simple solution.

All that said I think there probably could be less bureaucracy and I'd have no problem with some of the front line staff getting paid better based on productivity improvements. Balance and all that ...

what practices would people like to see changed? I agree that the 9-5 mentality of the Health Service needs to change alright, but as far as nursing goes we don't work that system. We work the longest working week of any other civil servant in the Health Service for a start. We work 7 days a week and based on a 24 hour shift. To people that say that we know what we're getting into before we start, well yes we do, but i don't think that means we have to give up our right to look for better conditions, does it?

Over the past several years nurses have had to take on more and more repsonsibilities to cover for the lack of NCHD's out there, with no rise in salary. As well as that, nursing now requires a Science level degree to gain registration here. That outs us in the same league as physiotherapists, teachers, and other degree level professions. All of which who get a markedly higher pay. Its not being greedy lads, its just asking for what we actually deserve.

Collie D

Have to agree with you, nurse_baz. My Nanna is in and out of hospital and it's obvious the staff are completely over-worked but they do their job with as much efficiency and care to the patient as possible. You deserve a lot more money for the job you do.

bandraoi

Also, with regard to nurses, the working conditions are an absolute disgrace here. This contributes to the lack of Irish trained nurses in our hospitals (I'm not being racist, trained in Ireland. Some of those from other countries aren't trained as well imo). It wouldn't be hard to alleviate this. In Autralia for example, there's a nurse' aid for every 2 patients, so nurses don't have to waste time washing patients, making beds, bringing patients to the toilet etc cause the aids do it).

It's the Irish nursing unions that are preventing the introduction of qualified nursing aids. They claim it is demarcation and will result in a reduction of the number of nurses needed.

Nurses are not poorly paid.
http://www.ino.ie/DesktopModules/Articles/ArticlesView.aspx?TabID=35&ItemID=3625&mid=6977
will give you full details of the nurses pay scale.

what practices would people like to see changed? I agree that the 9-5 mentality of the Health Service needs to change alright, but as far as nursing goes we don't work that system. We work the longest working week of any other civil servant in the Health Service for a start. We work 7 days a week and based on a 24 hour shift. To people that say that we know what we're getting into before we start, well yes we do, but i don't think that means we have to give up our right to look for better conditions, does it?

The 9/5, Monday to Friday mentality of the health service does need to change no doubt about it.
Nurses may work 7 days a week, they do not work each of the 7 days in any one week, and they do not work 24 hours a week, they work on a rota like everybody else. Overall they work roughly the same hours as other civil servants.

Wishbone Ash

nurse_baz wrote:

We work 7 days a week and based on a 24 hour shift

nurse_baz - I presume you mean that you are rostered over 7 days/24 hours. Your line gives the impression that all your shifts are 24 hours long and that you work every day of the week.

nurse_baz wrote:

We work the longest working week of any other civil servant in the Health Service

If you are a qualified nurse you will be an 'officer' of the Health Service, not a 'servant'. (An attendant, for example, would be a 'servant' of the Health Service)

Wertz

Sorry for off-topicness, but seeing as how the OP was kind of badly formatted and that many of the replies in the thread were pointing that oiut, would it not be a good move on behalf of one of the moderators to edit/format the OP to make it readable, and perhaps delete the comments about readiblity?
I have no doubt that the thread starter has some valid points for discussion but many people may have just overlooked the post due to the way it was typed up. I know I did.
Just a suggestion.

On topic; I was in James about 10 yrs back for a week...I found it to be one of the cleanest and nicest hospitals I'd been in in the country...no doubt things have changed since then...more demand for the same resources especially given it's role as a acute hospital for many specialist injuries/conditions for the whole country.

TequilaMockingBird

I think you people who have problems reading a text without the correct punctuation, are probably the type who are running the health service. See it in black and white. Can't read between the lines. Mary Harneyites....

Terry

sorry, what's your point there?

jimmycrackcorm

I think the op is vicky from Little Britain and apparently is mixing up CCU with A and E.