The Future. What should i do?

Naikon

I am writing this mainly because i am a little confused or mis-guided at the moment.
I am 17 and i am studying for the LC and i feel i would enjoy a career in computing related jobs as i like solving problems and i keep up to date with news and events in the IT industry.
However my farther runs a successful pub , and i am always thinking that what
will happen if i dont follow in his footsteps?
I just feel it would be like pissing on alll his hard work he put into the businesss if i didnt follow suit, as he left school early but he has great business and accounts awareness which allowed him to be who he is today.
even as i speak he works from 11:00 am to sometimes almost 3:00 am 5 or six times a week. I just feel going to college would hamper its success if i dont go into his business, and he worked fulltime since he was about 16 or 17 out of his interest.
I work there mainly part time during the summer holidays and have been asked repeatly "when are you taking over?" ect.
I know i am young and dont understand life fully at this age but i could see myself working in IT but have doubts because of this.
He knows i have an interest in IT but is reluctant to talk about the issue and considering he is only 43 and still has the dominent role in the business.

cance

Speak to your father about your concerns, your interests should be your priority, agreeing to a lifetime behind a bar for someone else isnt going to make you very happy.

Naikon

At the moment he doesent seem too worked up and when i do mention it to him he usually replies with "do with what you feel happy with" but i just feel it is a shame considering what will happen if i dont work "behind the bar".
Its a little early yet but my grandfather asked me if i will go into it and he said he would try and entice me into working there which at the moment isnt prevelent as my farther hasnt really hinted about his feelings other than what he usually says.
but i just feel as if a cloud of dissapointment lurks over them as a result of this even though it is MY life.

The Sweeper

Naikon wrote:

I am writing this mainly because i am a little confused or mis-guided at the moment.
I am 17 and i am studying for the LC and i feel i would enjoy a career in computing related jobs as i like solving problems and i keep up to date with news and events in the IT industry.
However my farther runs a successful pub , and i am always thinking that what
will happen if i dont follow in his footsteps?
I just feel it would be like pissing on alll his hard work he put into the businesss if i didnt follow suit, as he left school early but he has great business and accounts awareness which allowed him to be who he is today.
even as i speak he works from 11:00 am to sometimes almost 3:00 am 5 or six times a week. I just feel going to college would hamper its success if i dont go into his business, and he worked fulltime since he was about 16 or 17 out of his interest.
I work there mainly part time during the summer holidays and have been asked repeatly "when are you taking over?" ect.
I know i am young and dont understand life fully at this age but i could see myself working in IT but have doubts because of this.
He knows i have an interest in IT but is reluctant to talk about the issue and considering he is only 43 and still has the dominent role in the business.

My two cents: go to college. The advantage of your father's business is that you can always go back into it later in life. You would find it far more difficult to quit pubbing and go back to university aged 30. If your father has a successful business but wanted to cut his hours, he could hire a bar manager to act in his stead.

Unless you're working full time in a decision-making or managerial role in the pub, there's no reason for you to think that going to college would hamper the success of the business. Even if you are working full time in your father's business, very few people are irreplacable in a business. Someone else could be hired to do what you do.

Having your own career isn't pissing all over your father's work. Taking money out of his business to go to college and then flunking out would be however, so you need to be serious about wanting to go to university and studying hard while you're there. Still, you should never gear your life around what your parents want. All that'll happen is you'll hit your thirties lamenting missed opportunities and resenting their input.

Naikon

I see what you mean and if i was to go to college i wouldent piss away the oppurtunity and i do know there are 2 extra managers working for him who he values a it eases the workload slightly.

pclancy

You're way to young to work in a bar for the rest of ur life man, no disrespect to the bar or the trade but considering you're into IT and seem to have a good head on your shoulders why not get your LC, go do a computer related dip or degree and get some experiance working in IT and see do you like it. Your father is still young, he'll be running the place for a long time it seems so why dont you go live the life you want to live while you can and maybe think about going back to the pub when he's ready to retire? You have to travel a bit, meet people and see what you like in life before you settle down like that.

My 2c.

The Sweeper

Why don't you tell your dad you'll work full time for him during the hols etc. to help out, and that you appreciate the learning experience of working, earning your own money and learning about the entrepreneurial skills of managing your own business? That part would be very useful... plus it might make him feel better, if you're really worried aobut it.

My dad works in a bar as well which is quite successful.However I have no interest in talking it over.Im in NUIG studying science and see myself doing some sort of pharmaceutical job.

Do you really want to work the hours your father did?It was a different time when he was young.The pub was his only opportunity.You have many more opportunites.One thing I have to say about owning a pub.If you have an addictive personality, DO NOT take over a pub.The boringness of working those hours seven days a week will drive you to drink.My father said to me he would like for one of his children to take over running of pub but only if we were a manager and did not work behind the bar as many hours as he did.I remember being only around six and him opeing the bar someday in november and not one customer the whole day yet you are stuck there.

Don't be afraid to go to college.You will have time of your life.

obrien_pa

pclancy wrote:

You're way to young to work in a bar for the rest of ur life man, no disrespect to the bar or the trade but considering you're into IT and seem to have a good head on your shoulders why not get your LC, go do a computer related dip or degree and get some experiance working in IT and see do you like it. Your father is still young, he'll be running the place for a long time it seems so why dont you go live the life you want to live while you can and maybe think about going back to the pub when he's ready to retire? You have to travel a bit, meet people and see what you like in life before you settle down like that.

My 2c.

..That's exactly what I was going to say!.. OP, there's no harm in trying out college life and computers. If it's not for you, hey, no harm done. But it's much better to have tried and learned something than to regret not trying it in the first place.

Naikon

Thanks for the advice so far:)

Colm_OReilly

Good advice so far. To me it sounds like a dilemma between what you want and what you feel you should do. I admire that you are committed to your family and want to help your father, but in order for a situation to be win win you have to win first. That's why they always tell parents to put on their oxygen mask first in the event of a sudden loss of cabin pressure. You can't help anyone if you're passed out.

If your heart is telling you to go to college go to college. Maybe after college you'll want to work in the bar. Who knows?

Also, you could be using the bar as a safety net. You don't know what will happen when you start colleg, but you've a pretty good idea of what will happen if you work in the bar. A lot of people use this fear of the unknown as an excuse for not taking risks.

I know i am young and dont understand life fully at this age

You understand as much as you're capable of at this age. There's no need to scorn yourself for being young.

Best of luck,
Colm

LegacyUser

U must be your own person.
Follow your own dream (right or wrong) ; not your dad's
dream.

Besides - would U want to work the kind of hours
that he is working ? And, someone should tell him
to cop himself on and slow down before he has a
heart attack !

Naikon

i wouldent mind taking this risk as some sort of qualification other than a leaving cert which for me is only a cert which will open up better oppurtunities.(hopefully)
I really like learning new things for myself.
I could see myself working in systems or networking administration or similer as i am always usually the point of contact for family relitives with hardware or software problems.

Working at a job you like seems more fufilling than a job which sole purpose is just to pay the bills(even though that probably is the biggest concern)

Who knows what i might do?
I am starting to see a clearer picture now:)

Ruu_Old

Well it looks like all the points have been well covered here, get your da to slow if he will so he will be able to see you graduate. I know how stubborn Dads can be. Mine just couldn't do it, must have another chat with him when I get home again. Good luck in the future anyway, OP.

Naikon

Thanks for all the help and advice:)
Best not drag this on and on.

PauloMN

I agree with the advice given above. You are still young, 4 years of college will still see you young, and you'll have a qualification which you can choose to use or not.

One thing I would say is talk to a few people in the IT industry, and have a good think about it before studying IT. There's some great jobs in IT, but IMHO most IT jobs aren't great - not interesting, long hours, and worst of all - most IT companies look for people who can do an ok job very quickly (i.e. cheaply for their customers) rather than do an excellent job in a little longer time. Annoying if you are quality focussed.

Look around at job websites for both IT and non-IT jobs and try to write down the ones you like, and why. Might help with choosing your career direction and with what you should study in college.

Definitely don't just work in the pub because you feel bad. No good for you or your Dad. You'll end up hating yourself in a couple of years. College is great on so many fronts - learning and meeting people is one thing, but the confidence you get from it and the craic cannot be got elsewhere AFAIC.

Naikon

I have heard a few stories about boring IT jobs from my relitives who usually say "its boring" and whatever.
I can understand that some jobs would be boring ,and
I would choose a degree based on the software development side which also focuses on the hardware and networking side and get a good idea of pros and cons of each.
I really dont know what area i should choose but systems administration/networking appears better than working as a pure software developer for stuff like accounting programs.
My cousin also works as a system admin and she says it great and better than when she was creating mundane business software all day long.(she hates the engineering strictness of business software and prefares messing around with code to a greater degree of freedom)
I wouldent mind programming at all but a mixture of most or all aspects would add a variety which would suit me.

The_Conductor

Naikon wrote:

I have heard a few stories about boring IT jobs from my relitives who usually say "its boring" and whatever.
I can understand that some jobs would be boring ,and
I would choose a degree based on the software development side which also focuses on the hardware and networking side and get a good idea of pros and cons of each.
I really dont know what area i should choose but systems administration/networking appears better than working as a pure software developer for stuff like accounting programs.
My cousin also works as a system admin and she says it great and better than when she was creating mundane business software all day long.(she hates the engineering strictness of business software and prefares messing around with code to a greater degree of freedom)
I wouldent mind programming at all but a mixture of most or all aspects would add a variety which would suit me.

Having been a technical specialist for 5 years and a software engineer for 2- I can empathise with those of your friends who find it boring..... I love IT- and thought it was the be-all and end-all. I did not study it in college- because I had no idea what I really wanted to do with my life and more or less allowed myself be pointed in another direction. Anyhow- I have worked in technical support- supporting products from 4 different companies and also as a technical trainer. Some people have a natural aptitude, a flair if you will, for technology- are brilliant at it, and make it their life. Other people who thought it was for them rapidly find otherwise.

You have to think that you still are working to deadlines, you have to deliver a particular number of modules of tested code or a certain number of products returned have to be tested and faults (if any) diagnosed.

IT is all well and good- but it does have a romantic aura for some people, when the truth may be quite different. There was an old joke 10 years ago about passing pizza under the door to the software engineers and not letting them leave until they delivered- its not a million miles from the truth.

There are a number of large multinationals who take on parttime staff, particularly over the summer months and also at the run-up and immediately after Christmas. It might be an idea to see if you could get a few weeks work experience to get a flavour for different IT areas, before you decide which area in particular you might like to focus on.

There are particular areas of IT that you should not consider touching with a bargepole- top of the list has to be technical support. If you get behind the scenes- possibly in product development, testing or related areas- that is a different story altogether.

Going forward it is very probable that people with IT skills will be in high demand- pursuing a qualification in this area will stand you to good stead.

Naikon

So would networking/ sytems administration be a bad move?
I wouldent like working in basic telephone tech support answering phone calls where people are shouting abuse because their printer wont work because they havent installed the drivers.

The_Conductor

Telephone tech support is the pits- it has a stupid staff turnover ratio too- one particular company working in this area based in Swords who will remain nameless here, have a staff turn-over approaching 400%- i.e. staff job satisfaction is zilch the average person quitting within 3 months.....

As for network support/general IT admin- the salaries are reasonable and the work reasonably varied- so it would make a much better option. You will still have the odd few idiots ringing you and dishing out abuse over the phone (they never think to coming to your office.....) but for the most part its a lot more satisfying. The thing about network admin that a lot of people might not think of- is you might have a lot of antisocial hours/weekend work. Most problem solving/upgrading work happens on live systems- so you cannot do a lot of things during office hours. Fringe benefits are a shipload of overtime/time-in-lieu (a rather nice way to supplement your holidays!).

Product development (hard-ware or software) in my opinion would be a better course of action though.

At the end of the day- you really should try to get a flavour of the different sides before deciding on a particular course of action.....

Naikon

For product development, is it nesscesary to hold a specific degree in electronic/software/computer engineering as opposed to a general IT degree or experience?

qwytre

I would say to go to college, even for just the reason that it is a life experience that you wont forget. I dont mean that its just all great fun, drinking, playing sports etc but that you meet friends, you understand what life is about more when you have freedom to do what you wish.

In college no one will bug you to do anything, in fact a lot of people waste it and end up dropping out or getting very poor results. But if you have the right balance of studying and socialing you will come out the other end with a degree\cert\diploma and a more rounded person. College is great, its really shapes your life. There will be good times and bad times but overall it shouldn't be missed.

The pub will always be there and your father is still a young man, I would imagine it will be 15 years before he retires from it. You should persue the career you want, in fact the pub can still be partially managed by you even when you are doing something else. You could hire a pub manager to run the place and you can keep an eye on the books etc.

I dont think your father would be overly disappointed, I mean the vast majority of guys do not follow in their fathers footsteps.

Either way go to college, even if you work in the pub have the IT degree is good, there may even be business related subjects that will help you in managing a business. If you dont go now you certainly wont go in later years, get all the education done and dusted by 23.

I work in IT too, 5 years now and as long as you do what you enjoy cant go to far wrong. It would be good to have the option to go work in the family pub but that doesnt exist for me, you have the opportunity to build a career in IT and then decide what you want to do.

Reading back on some of your posts it is very obvious you want to go to college and try IT, do it! You will only regret not doing it. You have the rest of your life to work in the pub if IT doesnt work out but at your age you wont be able to go to college and try IT in your 30's etc. Now is the right time.

I cant stress enough what a great experience college is!

Honestly your father is your father and will support your decision. Even if he is a bit disappointed it is a minor thing, you are not doing anything bad!

Good luck!

qwytre

Naikon wrote:

For product development, is it nesscesary to hold a specific degree in electronic/software/computer engineering as opposed to a general IT degree or experience?

There are really two types of IT jobs, sorry if I am simplfying it a bit much but...

There is the pure programmer who likes to code and code and build things. For that a specific degree in software eng is good.

If you like to do the coding and also possibly would be interested in the business side of things like Analysis, Project Managements, Team Management, etc then have a general IT degree (with business type subjects) is good.

Really your first job is very important and that job will help you get your next one etc etc so you start to get specialised in something rather quickly.

If interested I would recommend Systems Analysts type jobs, very well paid as you get good experience and very varied and includes programming and business skills. (Not one myself but I know a lot of them)

Naikon

Thanks for your very helpfull advice:)

stepbar

Do a degree, but I wouldnt advise to do straight IT, mix some business subjects in there cause they will come in handy in the future. I would have been in a similer suitation to your self when I was younger. People would always ask me are you goin to follow in the ould man's profession (My da is a self employed electrician). For a time I thought that it was something that I could do, many the summer I spent out on the road on building sites, pulling cables and chasing walls, but I never had that overbearing urge to carry on the profession. When I was younger the ould man would work all hours up at 8,out at 9 come home at 6-7 out again and not come back until 11 at nite. Granted in recent years he has a good few young lads on the books so the hours he has to put in have lightened but its still hard work. On top of that he would have farming duties to see to as well. I didnt want to have a life like this, so I went and done a degree in IT. It was grand but TBH, by the end of it I was begining to resent IT and was sick of it. But the one good thing was that I did a lot of business subjects and so that helped because it enabled me to pursue a Masters in Strategic Mgt. So now I see myself in a career in business (hopefully with BOI fingers crossed ). So my advice would be to do the degree, and make sure you have the few business subjects in the mix. At a later stage in your life you could come back and run the business, the chances are your father will be at the helm for at least another 20yrs and as well as that I dont thing it would be a major transition for you to make as you said that you have worked quite a bit there.

Naikon

would something along the lines of this be a good mix?

http://www.dit.ie/DIT/study/undergraduate/courses/dt211.html

stepbar

Just from looking at that Im not so sure it seems that you would only do 2-3 business subjects in the 4yrs.

This is what I am talking about

http://www.dit.ie/DIT/study/undergraduate/courses/dt354.html

but im not sure if this is something that you would like, considering that you like more technical IT

The course I done in NCI was

http://www.ncirl.ie/Programmes_Courses/Full_Time/Undergraduate_Studies/BSC_(Honours)_in_Software_Systems

You might want to look at other colleges / courses too. Like DCU and UCD. NCI is grand that is if you like the idea of going into an "office" for next 4 yrs of your life. Dont get me wrong made lots of good friends but if I was to do it again I would prob do something like this

http://www.ncirl.ie/Programmes_Courses/Full_Time/Undergraduate_Studies/BA_in_Management_of_Technology_in_Business.

or

http://www.ncirl.ie/Programmes_Courses/Full_Time/Undergraduate_Studies/BSC_(Honours)_in_Business_Information_Systems

in a different college

projectmayhem

just throwing some random thoughts out there but doesn't UCD do some sort of self-service degree type job where you pick subjects from here and there and mash 'em together to get a custom course, as it were?

antoinolachtnai

Go to college, if not for your own sake, for the sake of your Dad's business.

The pub business is changing, the same as everything else. The business has to change with it. I'm sure it's a great operation thanks to your dad's hard work, but there's sure to be more to be done.

Go out and get another perspective. Best thing is to get yourself some sort of qualification, given your age and the fact that you are interested in computers.

If for some reason you don't want to go straight to College, go and work in someone else's pub or restaurant in a completely different place for a while. I guarantee you you'll learn a lot and you'll be able to bring a lot home to your family business.

Remember that you are picking a lifestyle if you do go into the pub business. It probably seems like second nature to you, but it's very different from the 9-5 lifestyle that most people lead. You should find out more about the options that are out there.

All my view of course. Try to sound your father out more though.