Family arguement turned violent

annonson

OK, I'm 27 years old married 4 years with 2 kids & the usuall in law baggage that goes with it. Recently though (last 3 weeks or so) my relationship with my parent (father in particular) has been breaking down. It would never have been loving anyway (i would almost say extranged) but we had our moments of good time but I could honestly count them on one hand.

Anyway we had a falling out about 3 weeks ago over something stupid. His DSL wasnt working and I couldnt fix it (i'm a tech by trade but it was a line problem) but he claimed I just wasnt interested. Anyway one day I call him about it, we exchange some words and whatever happened the line went dead. I though he hung up and he thought I did but as it turn out its was a problem with his line. Then he starts saying things behing my back to my sisters (2 of them), stuff like "he's not welcome in my home anymore" or "At least I dont act like a sissy and hang up on people". This is driving me crazy as he hasnt got the guts to say it to my face.

Anyway it all starts this evening when my mam rings and starts on about the DSL (I bought her an ipod and she wants to d/l songs), I say I cant fix it and she says "oh well waste of an ipod so". I'm sick of the smart comments so I say right I want to call later so clear the air. (its my sons christening in 2 weeks)

I got up and ask him if theres something he wants to say to me. He says no, I bring up what he said to my sisters and we go off from there. A lot of back and forth of who is at fault (yelling, cursing, etc). Mam starts up defending him and I say "what about you being a smart ass this evening" and WHACK! I get hit in the side of the head. In an instant I know I'll never be like him as I had no desire to hit back. I wouldnt give him the satisfaction. This for me is monumental as I would always have had a quick temper and as a teenager would always have been quick to use my fists.

I leave shouting about they'll never see me or the kids again, etc, etc. My wife couldnt believe it when I came home. My problem is not I'm already begining to feel guilty as if its my fault (if I hadnt gone up etc). Or that at least I shoultn exclude my mum as she wasnt the one who hit me.

help!

Nevyn

ok i dont give a flying feck what is going on in that persons life they had no right to hit you or lay hands on you and you are with in your rights to have them charged with assult.

This I would make known to the family.

He hit you end off.

Now, when it comes to grandparents and grandchildrend it get tricky.
I would suggest you cut off contact for 4 to 6 weeks and then review how much you want/need them in your life.

I do think grandkids and grandparents should have acess to each other but it should be on your terms and be negoiated your parents.

Sometimes Parents don't respect and get the fact we are not kid until you tell them to get out of your life

mysterious

I agree with the above post. Whatever happened, your Parents have no right to hit you.

As for them bitching about you, don't react to it. Unbearing at times I know. They want you to react and get aggravated over something that's not really your problem.

Grem

I'd agree with Thaedydal also and give them a period of time with no contact. You are the one trying to help them out with their technical problems and you seem to get no thanks for it.

Your father hitting you was inexcusable. You are not a child/teenager they can control anymore. Fair play to you not hitting him back. Telling them that they wont have access to your kids anymore was said in the heat of the moment and your dad smacking you one was also in the heat of the moment.

He should apologise if he wants to have any sort of relationship with either you or your children in the future - although whats to stop him lashing out like that with one of your children?

Beruthiel

A father hitting his 27 year old son is a man who has serious problems.
I don't care if ye were shouting the house down, it should never, ever come to physical violence. There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for this type of behaviour. A man who cannot control himself should be taking some sort of anger management course or talking to a professional.

Thaed is spot on. No contact for a few weeks until tempers die down. Then have a think about your children and how much they mean to their grandparents. Talk to your wife about that and perhaps ye can come to some sort of decision, perhaps she can drop them over for a while until you get your head straight.
I'd be looking for some sort of apology from your father, though I suppose you'll be left waiting there
Shocking behaviour

Saruman

Is there anything missing from the story though? Same as everyone else said on the advice.. its just something does not make sense....

No offence but either there is a deeper problem that made both your parents turn on you so much.. or they are unbelievably stupid and lack the intelligence of glass of water. I mean you... a tech tell them there is a line problem, you cant fix and they do not believe you and keep going on about it?

Unless they had reason to doubt the word of their son.. any normal intelligent person would think "Oh better call eircom!".

It just seems it was more than a stupid argument that turned violent and there are deep deep problems here.

craichoe

I have a similar problem with my family and FRIENDS, anytime they have a problem with ANYTHING IT related they call me and i keep telling them I'M A LINUX ENGINEER, WTF WOULD I KNOW ABOUT WINDOWS.

After getting sick of saying this, now i just say, ill be over in ten minutes and never show up.

I really hate my parents sometimes, they completely take me for granted, inviting themselves over and not being able to take no for an answer.

THAT BUGS THE LIVING S*IT OUT OF ME, IF YOU SAY NO WHY CAN'T PEOPLE TAKE IT AS NO and not stop asking.. why ... but you said .. blah blah blah .. you'll be there anyway or whatever.

I swear ill go mad one of these days.

I went spastic at a Scumbag one night, he asked me for a cigarette and i said "no" he then proceeded to call me a f*cking langer and such. So i went mental, asked him "If you wanted one why did you just steal it out of my f*cking pocket, oh you want some money too, *started throwing pennies at him* COME ON FU*KER, COME ON ..." .He muttered something about saying i was "dead" and ran off sharpish.

Anyways,
Thats my rant over

Kell

I take it the old man is somewhere in his late fifties early sixties? Why is every father of that generation a fúcking retard? Same happened meself and the old man a few years ago, then he blamed me for attacking him. Anyways.

Its shít right now, but you will get over it. You dad is a fúckwit, but he knows no better. Your dad obviously has no respect for you, respect that you deserve a) as being a grown man with childer of your own and b) because you are his son.

When its all settled down a tad, you need to have a drawing the line conversation with your dad as I did. Draw the line and tell him to afford you the respect you deserve or you will have nothing to do with him. My dad went from critiscising everything I did and permanantly putting me down to either contributing something positive or shutting up. We now have a workable relationship.

As I said, you need to draw the line with him. Dont drag up the past and tell him "you do x, y and z and it really pisses me off". Dont mention him in the chat, just mention how you feel about the relationship and that you are not prepared to tolerate his crap any longer.

G'luck.

K-

Kell

Saruman wrote:

Unless they had reason to doubt the word of their son.. any normal intelligent person would think "Oh better call eircom!".

Unless of course they quite simply had no respect for the word of their son. "What would he know, he's only a......"

You get the picture.

I know a shed load of people who treat their well grown kids like shít. The excuse would seem to be "thats what they were used to so..." Thats not an excuse. Just about every male I know in their late twenties early thirties have an issue with their old man, and it all boils down to the fact that the father never afforded the son any respect as a human being at all.

I curse being born in this country. I really do.

K-

Moojuice

Kell wrote:

I take it the old man is somewhere in his late fifties early sixties? Why is every father of that generation a fúcking retard?

Damn right, seems to be something about that generation. Always going on about respect, demanding it from people but giving none to anyone. I agree with the above posters, cut off contact for a few months and see how they feel then. They still see you as a subserviant kid, thats why they treat you likw that.

Best of luck, I honestly mean that, something similar (but a lot worse) happened me a few years ago. Let us know what you decide and how it goes.

annonson

thanks to everyone who took the time to post.

@saruman, its not so much that this whole thing is over a DSL problem but more it was the straw that broke the camels back. My father has a superiority complex and as such wont allow situations where it looks like he doesnt know everything (like calling tech support and having them baby step him through something. even to the point where he wont play board games at xmas in case he doesnt know the answer!)

As I said our relationship would always have been rocky. I agree that there are long running issues which my family refuses to acknowledge (my father's temper & violence, its not the first time he's hit me, my mothers alcohol problem, she's drunk so much she falls asleep in the street in the way home, and honestly my own open disgust at the pair of them, which may not help but what can I do?) All of which my wife and I have tried previously to address and resolve. They even refused to see any problem!

My wife doesnt want him near my kids after this (as grem said, what if he hits one of them?) but I'm begining to feel sorry for my mum. She's had to endure this for 25+ years and now she's loosing her grandchildren. But what also hurts is the fact that she'll try and make up just to see them, not to address any issues or repair her relationship with me.

Either way its sad and I dont think there is going to be happy ending. Its won thing to say stuff in the heat of the moment, but I cant just forgive this.

My priority is my own family (wife and sons). I went home last night, help my boy (he's 3) in his bed and cried. The love I have for him just goes beyond words. I cant imagine striking him just out of pure anger.

PS Yes he turned 59 last sunday.

fatboypee

Ohhhhhh the anger I felt reading this thread......

annonson, for what it's worth, I think you're brilliant in trying your level best to do what you can for your parents, despite what is clearly a desperately one-sided relationship !

But, and this is the rub, how many times do you flog the dead horse ?

I've been in a similar situation and had for my own sanity to do what you're doing and retreat into my immediate family. The loss and anger you feel yourself is highly understandable but my advice would be confide in your wife about it, leave the parents alone. Both of them.

FBP.

Kell

annonson wrote:

All of which my wife and I have tried previously to address and resolve. They even refused to see any problem!

I know its exceptionally difficult to do, but the writing is on the wall. They are grown ups (behaving as children) and although you love your parents, you have to try and dis-entangle yourself from their problems. If you try and help and it goes skew ways they will wind up resenting you for it.

Parting ways with them doesnt mean you have to hate them or resent them. Be indifferent. I truly think that for your own sanity and your wife's, time to walk away and leave them to it. They made their choices. You make yours.

K-

Beruthiel

I won't go into the details here, but I didn't speak to my parents for four years. My mother basically told me to never darken her door again, so I didn't.
That time seemed to change her in ways that still amaze me. She did some hard thinking I believe and as a result treats her 4 daughters a lot better as a result. They are both great to me now, but it was not always the case.
If you leave them a good space of time to think, perhaps it might help.

Marksie

What a terrible situation to be in!

I have nothing but admiration for the way you detail how you feel about your family. It has been show that families with a history of violence frequently have it passed down from father to son as it were. You have shown that you are a MUCH better man than your father.

Your mothers difficulties probably issue from the same place.

Have you considered that your father may be jealous? A good job, a happy family life?
It must seriously affect his "superiority complex" to see his son surpassing his father. Hence his need to disparage all the time.

Ok, i know i am, from the uk, but my father is proud of what his sons have achieved with their lives, even if it was not necessarily spectacular. he considers all the sacrifice and effort worth it.
But many of my friends here have the same problems as you...what the hell is it thats causing this? is it something in the collective psyche of a generation?

In the end it will be your father who will lose out, the loss of his family and grandchildren. He will become more embittered. All you can do is leave thinigs alone as other posters have said.
My surmise is that it will be the mother who will make the first opening...."your fathers really sorry you know" type of thing

BBest of luck for the future

LegacyUser

I think U can really forget about your spoky dokies.

They have f*ck*d up their own lives. U
shouldn't let them f*ck up yours as well any more.
They are not going to change their ways by now,
especially at this time of their lives.

U did your best.
Time to walk away or they will continue to drive
U mental.

But - Who knows ?
A few years without seeing them might make them
reconsider their ways ...

Sorry that the diagnosis isn't better.

Nevyn

annonson wrote:

My wife doesnt want him near my kids after this (as grem said, what if he hits one of them?) but I'm begining to feel sorry for my mum. She's had to endure this for 25+ years and now she's loosing her grandchildren. But what also hurts is the fact that she'll try and make up just to see them, not to address any issues or repair her relationship with me.

That hurts doesn't it the idea that they care more about seeing the kids and don't give a toss about you.

It is hard to still try and let the children have thier relationship with the grandparents even when you don't have one with them.
It can be hard to do and not be resentfull.

Either way its sad and I dont think there is going to be happy ending. Its won thing to say stuff in the heat of the moment, but I cant just forgive this.

Sometimes we need to let go of what we think and hope a relationship is and stop papering over the cracks and making allowances.
Family can treat each other in the most applaing fashion in ways they never would other people.

My priority is my own family (wife and sons). I went home last night, help my boy (he's 3) in his bed and cried. The love I have for him just goes beyond words. I cant imagine striking him just out of pure anger.

You are a grown up and in your own home and with your family and they come first. Heaven forbid your parents died in a car crash tomorrow you would manage with out them.
IT could be you have to let them know you don't need them in your life.

IF your Mam wants to see the kids why not have her over to your house for an afternoon ?

Anti

You showed great restraint. If that was me i would have lifted my auld lad out the living room window, and bet him up and down the street.

You should feel delighted that you had the maturity to just walkout and leave ( even if it waswhile shouting ) withough uppercutting him.

congrats

Sam Vimes

Moojuice wrote:

Damn right, seems to be something about that generation. Always going on about respect, demanding it from people but giving none to anyone. I agree with the above posters, cut off contact for a few months and see how they feel then. They still see you as a subserviant kid, thats why they treat you likw that.

Best of luck, I honestly mean that, something similar (but a lot worse) happened me a few years ago. Let us know what you decide and how it goes.

i wholeheartedly agree. my dad is 63 and exactly the same. he always demands respect etc but treats all those around him like crap. he has no respect for anyone and doesn't understand why people don't treat him with the veneration he's entitled to (he KNOWS everything he's entitled to). the other day he actually called my mother and myself "cheeky" as if we were bold school children

Saruman wrote:

Is there anything missing from the story though? Same as everyone else said on the advice.. its just something does not make sense....

No offence but either there is a deeper problem that made both your parents turn on you so much.. or they are unbelievably stupid and lack the intelligence of glass of water. I mean you... a tech tell them there is a line problem, you cant fix and they do not believe you and keep going on about it?

Unless they had reason to doubt the word of their son.. any normal intelligent person would think "Oh better call eircom!".

It just seems it was more than a stupid argument that turned violent and there are deep deep problems here.

you didn't have a father like that so its hard to understand. nothing i say is believed and any time something bad happens it was done on purpose to spite him. i've given up trying to reason with him


to the op, your dad is never going to change. you're either going to have to let him think he's superior to you and try to ignore it or spend the rest of your life fighting with him. i gave up fighting with my dad last year and the atmosphere in the house is much better. he goes on about how great he is and how much smarter he is than everyone and i just let him finish and walk away. easy

vorbis

this has turned into a right dad bashing session

My own dad matches some of the stuff written above as well. For years you couldn't have an argument with him, it would always descend into a "sure what would you know about blah blah" Something as trvial as discussing the Irish rugby team, (he played rugby, I never did), I'd say something he didn't agree with and rather than arguing like an adult, :sure you never played rugby" would come out.

What worked for me was standing up to him. I let **** like that slide for 18 years. I remember finally having enough after some ridiculous argument (even discussing directions would send him off on a rant against you) and teling him something along the lines of "You ****ed that up, it had nothing to do with us so you can **** off if you want to blame that on us"

It was like a turning point. he still starts petty arguments from time to time but the frequency is greatly diminished. My dad mellowed somewhat after standing up to him. You seem to stand up to him and he still gives you no respect. He's worth cutting off in that case.

Do your sisters answer back your father? my sister still can't at 25. She even gets tears in her eyes if she has any sort of heated argument with my dad. Another thing is do you know where your dad gets this behaviour from? Mine gets it from his mother. She was even worse than he is!

My mother is exactly the same and yes physical violence is usually always used in the situation and in relation to people like this, it’s a control thing and undermining is usually used too

Just stay away altogether they can’t hurt or annoy you if you’re not around and I bet you anything they/him come back to you and then try to say it was you who started it or that you were being unreasonable in the first place!

DublinWriter

Saruman wrote:

Is there anything missing from the story though? Same as everyone else said on the advice.. its just something does not make sense....

I have to agree. OP, I think you're experiencing the symptoms of a deeper problem.

But it's still inexcusable to use physical violence against a family member these days.

It's always a scary and landmark day in your life when you finally realise that you're wiser and not as fucked up as your folks.

jimmycrackcorm

OP, I think you should write them a letter. Explain very clearly that this started with a problem over a DSL line that you could not possibly fix and they will find this out. Put everything down clearly and then at the end make the point that you cannot allow their grandchildren near them because of the risk of them being beaten.

At least you get your point across without a distracting fight and they have to be curious enough to read it.

kenmc

Sorry to hear about your situation Annonson - I absoutely agree with the letter idea. Whether or not you wish to continue your relationship with your father, it will give him something to mull over in a non confrontational manner.
Good luck

annonson

thanks for all your posts.

@dublinwriter, as I already said there are deeper issues. It just took something stupid like this to bring them to the surface. (see my other post on page 1)

I actually got a text from him on sunday morning asking when I was going to come back and fix the computer. He actually said he'd leave keys out he I didnt have to see him. Obviously I didnt go.
I have already written and dropped arround 2 letters on sunday afternoon (without seeing the posts here). 1 for her and 1 for him. His was fairly straight and to the bone. Explaining why I didnt want to be around him and basically cutting him off. Her's was a bit more relaxed but still telling a few home truths. As yet I'm undecided about my relationship with her. I've asked both of them to stay away from the christening and I honestly think if she respects that decision it will go a long way to convincing me she is genuine. Either way she needs to rebuild her relationship with me first and then kids second.

My sister, her husband & daughter (who lives abroad) is home at the moment and is staying with them. She knows about what has happened and says the he blaims my mother for it! And as usuall they are more about what people think then anything else. They have both been out drinking in the local and having a joke like nothing has happened. Then she says when they go home they dont talk and my mum just sits there crying (over what exactly is not know, ie me, him or the kids, etc) Or I think its just more about what people will say when they see they arent at the christening.

The letters helped me come to terms with a lot of stuff anf get my points across without any misunderstandings.

Thanks again.