Random Breath Testing

Sizzler

Did anybody hear Matt Cooper yesterday evening? He read out a text that was supposed to be from a guard who claimed that the random breath testing legislation was a bit of a shambles as theres a touch of irony in the word *random*. He said they cant just decide to pull someone over and breathylise them, the stipulation is that a Superintendant/Sargeant at the station has to direct them to set up a proper checkpoint for a designated place and time and only then can they decide to breath test people one after the other.Anything outside of this is not permitted. He sounded pretty pi55ed about it as it restricted his duties.

Anybody heard this? Verify it? Not sure if its actually provided for in the law but perhaps its just a gardai policy?

mellohallo

I heard the same thing through someone in work and not on that show so perhaps there is some truth to it.

prospect

No matter really.

Several auld lads in a country pub I know were done a mile from the pub last friday night.
Guards obviously knew their route and caught the lot of them. Bloody, about time too.

maidhc

Sizzler wrote:

Anybody heard this? Verify it? Not sure if its actually provided for in the law but perhaps its just a gardai policy?

That is the way the legislation is drafted, so as to say at the right side of the constitution.

I don't see the problem tbh. It is only proper and right that some constraints be placed on the slightly intimidatory power to force innocent people blow into a machine. If some gardaí got their way they would be judge jury and executioner.

unkel

Sizzler wrote:

a Superintendant/Sargeant at the station has to direct them to set up a proper checkpoint for a designated place and time

Nothing wrong with that. It is an extremely efficient solution tried and tested for ages abroad

1. Saturday early evening. Setup road blocks / check points on every access road to a town / suburb, etc. Check tax / insurance etc. and make your presence known

2. Saturday late evening. Setup road blocks / check points on every access road out of the same town / suburb, etc. Breath test every driver

Results: people don't drink and drive and those who do will get caught!

Keith C

I've always wondered will they set up "next morning" checkpoints to see if people are still over the limit the next morning?? Especially around christmas time with people having midweek work parties etc.... We'd all be ****ed!!

Sizzler

unkel wrote:

Nothing wrong with that. It is an extremely efficient solution tried and tested for ages abroad

1. Saturday early evening. Setup road blocks / check points on every access road to a town / suburb, etc. Check tax / insurance etc. and make your presence known

2. Saturday late evening. Setup road blocks / check points on every access road out of a town / suburb, etc. Breath test every driver

Results: people don't drink and drive and those who do will get caught!

Agreed, till they started banging on about random testing I always was of the opinion they could have done this anyway...but obviously not ! Ridiculous when you think about it :eek:

Upon hearing it yesterday my instant reaction was if they wanted to get someone that they thought was dodgy they couldnt adopt the 'random' breathalyser approach if there wasnt a checkpoint in situ.

cormie

I hear before if you use mouthwash, you will show up as over the limit even if you haven't touched a drop of an alcoholic drink because there is alcohol in mouthwash?

numorouno

u mite fail the side of the road test but if u go back to the station and give a blood/urine sample your failure safe (well unless u drink a lot of mouthwash!). also the intoxiliyser back in the station you have to be monitered for 20mins before you can blow into that so that any excess alcohol (mouthwash?) in your mouth doesnt interfere with that reading. in essence you wont be banned for using mouthwash unless you drink it by the gallon!

gyppo

unkel wrote:

Nothing wrong with that. It is an extremely efficient solution tried and tested for ages abroad

1. Saturday early evening. Setup road blocks / check points on every access road to a town / suburb, etc. Check tax / insurance etc. and make your presence known

2. Saturday late evening. Setup road blocks / check points on every access road out of the same town / suburb, etc. Breath test every driver

Results: people don't drink and drive and those who do will get caught!

I agree with you unkel. Only problem I see is there would not be enough guards to cover every access road. What ever happened to the 2000 extra guards that were to be employed?

There was a report on the Westmeath Undependant (:)) a few months ago. It highlighted that over a bank holiday weekend 10 guards were on duty in Athlone (27,000 inhabitants)

unkel

gyppo wrote:

I agree with you unkel. Only problem I see is there would not be enough guards to cover every access road

The scheme will only work if there are enough guards to cover every single exit road. Every single vehicle going out will have to be stopped. Every single driver will have to be breath tested. It's quite likely that guards will have to be deployed for a night outside of their normal area

I've seen it work. Once the public is convinced that the chance of getting into one of these traps on a Saturday night is about 5-10% (as in the guards will only have to do a particular town a handful of Saturdays in a given year) that's enough to stop most people drinking and driving, who still drink and drive now

Keith C wrote:

I've always wondered will they set up "next morning" checkpoints to see if people are still over the limit the next morning?? Especially around christmas time with people having midweek work parties etc.... We'd all be ****ed!!

A lot of people would be under, at or just above the limit. A bit pointless to check really

maidhc

unkel wrote:

1. Saturday early evening. Setup road blocks / check points on every access road to a town / suburb, etc. Check tax / insurance etc. and make your presence know

Before or after 8 o'clock mass?

jimmycrackcorm

I wonder how long it will be before someone challenges the legisation on the basis that the guards checked a number of people in a row. i.e. that random means exactly that.

mar 25

How's a goin ya i agree with you i drive all the time im 26 and im Irish and i like a drink but i would never drink and drive, but im glad they caught the guys it could of been our family like so big up to the guards for once. I used to go out with a guy from the country and they would drink there selves stupid and never get cought so fair play i say...

maidhc

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

I wonder how long it will be before someone challenges the legisation on the basis that the guards checked a number of people in a row. i.e. that random means exactly that.

No, that won't happen. Someone is going to bring a challenge on personal liberty grounds though.

I seriously have my doubts drink driving is actuially a huge contributor to road deaths at all. Random stupididty testing anyone?

heggie

maidhc, drink has a lot to do with it, half of all deaths this year involved a drunk driver, and imo thats why the vast majority of road deaths are outside of dublin, its a different attitude in the country. I'm all for the breath tests, but unfortunately I think it will be dublin that is targeted the most (like it is with speed checks), while country pub X, Y, and Z with one road in and one road out will probably be left untouched, time will tell.

kippy

Someone mentioned above the chances of getting caught for being over the limit the day after having a large amount of beer.
I know of two cases in the past 10 days where drivers have been stopped the day after being out, one at 14:30 (stopped for a seatbelt offence and was bagged just over the limit-had been out till 4 am the previous night on a pretty serious session) The other stopped at 10 am at checkpoint for tax-was breathalysed and found to be over the limit-again he was on a pretty big bender the night before.
So it is possible to get caught the day after-which is something we all need to worry about-is there any personal detector that can be used to determine if you are over the legal limit? Would be very handy for use the day after.

connundrum

Keith C wrote:

I've always wondered will they set up "next morning" checkpoints to see if people are still over the limit the next morning?? Especially around christmas time with people having midweek work parties etc.... We'd all be ****ed!!

This is a point which really concerns me, last weekend just after the new had been passed I was at a wedding in Monaghan and drove home the next morning. The night before I had maybe 4 pints and a coupla vodka/red bulls.

That morning I felt totally fine and dandy and drove home no probs.. would I have been fooked had I been stopped?

kippy

As with the standard, how many drinks does it take to be over the limit, everyone is different and it is impossible to tell if you would be over the limit or not-which is why it would be handy to have a personal device for checking.

Stark

maidhc wrote:

I seriously have my doubts drink driving is actuially a huge contributor to road deaths at all.

Estimates show it to be a factor in 35% of road deaths.

maidhc

Stark wrote:

Estimates show it to be a factor in 35% of road deaths.

I'll stand corrected with road deaths fall by 35%.

I am not condoning drink driving, just skeptical about random breath testing being some sort of panacea for everything.

I know a few people who were killed when driving, one a neighbour, another my uncle. The first was sheer recklessness, the second a dangerous overtaking attempt, both were stupid.

Stark

Ah you know a few people who were killed when sober. That must put the number of non-drink related deaths at nearly 65% then

maidhc

No there is little point arguing this now, but it will be interesting to see what happens. If it reduces deaths then that is fantastic, but I remain skeptical.

I think we have enough draconian road legislation now. If this doesn't work it is time to do the difficult things like speeding up the road building, enforcing the laws we already have, raising and lowering certain speed limits, and educating drivers properly.

MrPudding

Yeah, cutting road deaths by 35% is a but pointless really.

MrP

heggie

no doubt they'll have targets they'll have to notch up, so it probably won't be effective

maidhc

MrPudding wrote:

Yeah, cutting road deaths by 35% is a but pointless really.

MrP

I am saying i'm doubting that 35% of deaths are caused by drink driving, and as such random breath testing may not change all that much.

There is a perception in the pale that us uncouth denizens of the hinterland do nothing but drink ourselves silly and then kill people. I don't think that happens as much as people think.

unkel

maidhc wrote:

I am saying i'm doubting that 35% of deaths are caused by drink driving

I doubt that too

Stark wrote:

Estimates show it to be a factor in 35% of road deaths.

As in the post mortem showed that 35% of people that died on the roads have alcohol in their blood? That is far from the same as stating that all those people would have lived if they had not had alcohol in their blood at the time

Disclaimer: I do not condone drink-driving. I am a supporter of random alcohol checks as described in my previous posts