Rebels - Where did it come from?

slu1exm

Was just wondering why Cork are know as the Rebels, esp given there was something on TV last week about how during the Easter Rising nothing happened in Cork?

Whats the story?

Nalced_irl

slu1exm wrote:

Was just wondering why Cork are know as the Rebels, esp given there was something on TV last week about how during the Easter Rising nothing happened in Cork?

Whats the story?

Absolute guess, but i think quite alot of the people in the Rising and the War of Independance were from Cork, like alot more than were from other counties. Possibly thats the reason but i dont know.

monosharp

Isn't it obvious ? Cork has had a long long history of "rebelling" against British Rule. During the War of Independence it was in Munster, not Leinster where most of the real fighting was done and won. Tom Barry ring any bells ?

edit -> The name existed long before 1916 and the name has no connection to a single event really.

County Cork is known as the "Rebel County" and not just for its past links with Irish Republicanism, it was actually named so by The Crown in 1499 as a derogatory label but was embraced by the people of Cork with pride.

Cork is also known as the "Rebel County" due to its history of involvement in the fight for home rule, both in the original struggles in the late 19th century and then in winning independence in the beginning of the 20th century.

jank

Yea something about a english man settling in cork around the 1490's and claiming that he was the rightful heir to the english crown because of his bloodline. It stuck after that especially after the war of independance and civil war. My dad will give you the full story of it.

Amazotheamazing

Yeah, it's a bit of a mess of history. Cork apparently supported a guy called Perkin Warwick in his claim for the English throne, but even then sources say he got little support except from a drunken mayor or somesuch. Again, I've read sources that claim the rebel tag comes from rebelling against the rest of Ireland in supporting this guy for the throne. (Cork would have been a pretty anglicised place back them I guess), originally it was a derogatory title, with very little to do with any great movement for Irish freedom in Cork.

So despite failing to rise in 1916, shooting Michael Collins and supporting some guy for the English throne, Cork still calls itself the rebel county. In their favour, Cork was very active in the War of Independance/Civil War (though how proud anywhere should be of being involved in a civil war is debatable).

Dapos

I have often wondered about alot of the county nicknames. Anyone know a good site that explains them. I know some are obvious like limericks,dublin, london. I don't even know why kerry is called the kingdom!

jank

Dapos wrote:

I don't even know why kerry is called the kingdom!

Because of its natural beauty

Zaphod

This was mentioned again in Monday's Sports section of the Irish Times ('No getting away from the monarchists and moggie-baiters').

"Apparently, Kilkenny were not the first to feel the wrath of the Rebel County. This honour fell to the adherents of the House of Lancaster in the War of the Roses in the 1400s. Such was their interest in British royal affairs, a large contingent from Cork travelled to England to help the House of York
So far from rebelling against the crown, the 'Rebels' fought for their own 'legitimate' English heir."

The origin of the Kilkenny cats is also described:

"In the days prior to Kilkenny folk spending their spare time pucking two pieces of stitched leather to each other, there was, apparently, a favoured pastime that involved tying two cats together by the tail and hanging them over a clotheslines - last cat standing, ermm, hanging, won.
There once were two cats in Kilkenny,
Each thought there was one cat too many,
So they fought and they fit,
And they scratched and they bit,
Till excepting their nails,
And the tips of their tails,
Instead of two cats, there weren't any."

As to the origins of "The Kingdom", the story I have always heard was that it was a reference in a speech made by a Member of Parliament in the 18th Century:

"I know of no Whiteboys at present impeding the freedom of election. Since disturbances have been spoken of, I declare that I sincerely wish the offenders may be punished, but I sincerely wish that the cause of those disturbances may be removed. For my part, I have done everything, as a magistrate and as a man, to restore order. The low and contemptible state of your magistracy is the cause of much evil, particularly in the Kingdom of Kerry--I say Kingdom, for it seems absolutely no part of the same country."

But it predates that speech by quite a bit

"In a paper contributed to the Franciscan Annals on the O'Connor Kerry, Father Jarlath traces the title, "Kingdom of Kerry," to Ciar, who was son of Fergus McRoy, King of Ulster, by Meave, the famous Queen of Connaught. Ciar having settled in Munster in the first century, became possessed of the greater part of the territory afterwards called Kerry, from the word Ciarraidhe, or Ciar's Kingdom."

http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlker/history.html