C2: Core Combatives Seminar

CarolLorraine

C2 - Foundation Elements Seminar with Mick Coup
Saturday 16th Sept. 9am-3pm
Please see attached poster (given to me by Aidan Carroll of Focus Fitness)

Course - 100 euro
www.kravmaga.ie

Odysseus

Hi CarrolLorraine,

I trained with Mick eariler this year as did a couple of the guys from here, good stuff I have to say, I would certainly recommend it. Pity I have too many committments over the next few months.

Baggio...

I second that! It's definitely worth checking out.

Baggio.

Millionaire

Thats looks like a great seminar! I was reading Micks articles on geoff thomspon site, and he is the real deal if he is posting articles on there.

Highly Recommended!!

Any DVDs planned for down the line?

yomchi

Excellent! Mick Coup in September, Lee Morrison in November! Its going to be good few months!

Baggio...

Millionaire wrote:

Any DVDs planned for down the line?

Sure is! Apparently Mick's in negotiations with a production company at the moment.

Keep an eye out for Mick's website which is coming soon. I'm sure there will be some details listed there.

Baggio.

Mick Coup

Just a few more details regarding the Sept seminar:

C2: Core Combatives Foundation Elements Seminar

Content:

Combative Attitude & Strategy
Offensive Tactics
Primary Tools
Secondary Tools
Support Skills

Aim:

To present, explore and confirm the essential and fundamental (hard) skills, drills and emergency default tactics utilised within the C2 concept-model of personal protection.

Overview:

The seminar will focus on the development of simple, efficient and instinctive methods and applications of dynamic physical force that will dramatically increase an individual’s ability to survive personal attack.

Scope:

Extensive threat management (soft) skills will not be addressed during this particular seminar. Training will primarily consist of the last resort physical (hard) skills, and emphasis will be placed heavily on the development and utilisation of unarmed impact tools to neutralise a physical threat.

Any questions, don't hesitate to contact me here or at http://selfprotection.lightbb.com/viewforum.forum?f=5

Mick

Millionaire

http://selfprotection.lightbb.com/viewtopic.forum?t=182

Basic Combatives Overview...

Baggio...

Mick Coup wrote:

Core Combatives Foundation Elements Seminar

Hey all,

I've done the foundation course a couple of times now and it's really excellent. I'd definitely recomend you guys check it out.

Rob.

yomchi

I'll be there for sure, anyone know when the final date for payment is?

Budo.Judo.Kev

Mick willing to give a freebie to a member of the boards.ie/sdma MMA community so they can do a review for us and see if it's worth while for the outher 50 to go do a course? Could be quite lucrative in the long run for you.

Baggio...

Budo.Judo.Kev wrote:

Mick willing to give a freebie to a member of the boards.ie/sdma MMA community so they can do a review for us and see if it's worth while for the outher 50 to go do a course? Could be quite lucrative in the long run for you.

Roper

Dennis Martin on the self protection forum wrote:

One of the guys mentioned he’d watched a video of a noted MMA instructor, who had disparaged Combatives by saying, in effect, it’s a lot of out of shape guys in cammo gear. Actually, that’s a fair one. Putting on cargo pants to teach does not make a Combatives teacher. Regarding fitness I remember being unimpressed by a lot of the guys who talked the talk in magazines...some of them looked like they couldn’t run up a flight of stairs without stopping five times.

Okay, so, the more I read about combatives and RBSD, the more it seems the top guys have more in common with the 'sporting' mindset than some combatives folk would like to have us believe. I've read some of GT's stuff and his use of Judo and other 'sporting arts'. Maybe, just maybe, there's some common ground here no?

Scramble

Roper-

The thing that has always struck me about Geoff Thompson is that he has always promoted combat sports as a base for his approach to self defence. Not just in that he advocated boxing, judo, greco-roman and freestyle wrestling, sambo, groundfighting and muay thai, but also in the sense that he argued that more than one should be trained. This was pretty pioneering back in the day. Him and Peter Consterdine also released books on weight training and conditioning, and wanted their guys to be physically as well prepared and in shape as possible. Someone could probably have come from an MMA gym and gone into GT's gym and trained without much adjustment (and vice versa).

GT has no trademark gimmicky self defence technique guaranteed to devestate an opponent, places little emphasis on the use of weapons as far as I can see, and has never really promoted a defence against weapons syllabus strongly. What he's taught consistently is drawn from the same combat sports that we see popping up in MMA- admittedly, with a 'soft skills' component dealing with the whole ritual of real fighting as he sees it (pre-fight, post-fight and whatnot). So yeah, in terms of the actually approach to training I think there is definitley an obvious crossover with MMA. The difference being, really, what GT's motivations were.

From what I remember of his biography he willingly admitted that he had a lot of fear and suppressed anger, and that he has been lucky to come out the far end of a lot of fighting which came about as a result. Seems like nowadays he has moved into a much mellower place, and I admire the fact that he has been willing to reinvent himself as more of a self-help guru than anything else.

I think in many ways even though he is one of the pioneers of the whole self-protection scene in the UK, he actually probably still has one of the best takes on the whole area. I think a lot of people who came after him missed some of his fundamental points totally, when they went down a road of ignoring his emphasis on combat sports.

Musashi

RBSD generally involves the paring down of TMA into a few techniques that work most of the time for most people. It takes into account the environment, multiples, weapons etc. At it's most basic it is how to stop an attacker as quickly as possible, maybe several times? Most Martial Arts like more techniques, either for "Style" reasons or to keep customers paying.

How many clubs could do what Mick Coup does, show you two or three hand techniques, a couple of kicking techniques, and the short range variations of those, and leave it at that! Practice those six or eight moves and you've got a self defense arsenal, get fitter and stronger and they will work better. Most other stuff is gilding the Lily, and giving you more unnecessary choices to make when stressed.

What Mick teachs leaves you limited decision making to do in fight, "Is he close or far, head open to striking or not?". That's it, strike the head with palm heel unless he's too close, go to elbow until range is good then palm heel. Head covered up altogether? Hook or low line kicks until the head is clear then see above! This is basics done well, if it's not needed then why do it? Sure you could do a fancy wristlock throw to takedown and stomp, but you could have hit the guy a dozen times instead!

Mick is one of a group of very highly regarded RBSD Instructors world wide, (not respected by Mall Ninjas), by people looking for real instruction and no BS or padding. His course was excellent and shift work allowing I'll go again! Why do the foundation course again? Because it's the basics drilled home and done well which is the default option when stressed, tired, injured or whatever. If they work you need no other technique, if they don't, well you won't need any more moves either way

The fact that he's posting here is unusual to me, I thought he'd be too busy with his teaching and his own forum. That he is willing to enter into discussion here, where there is a lot of doubt of RBSD in general, shows his character. Can you imagine if Dan Inosanto or Paul Sharp were to drop in and post here? :eek: That is the level he is at, and developed his ideas by doing, not by rote learning. In conflict there are certain universal truths, and he's seen them and learnt from the experience, and can pass it on. An unusual combination of fighter and teacher, we are lucky to have a few on board here, I intend to learn from them.

Happy Days lads

Baggio...

Musashi wrote:

The fact that he's posting here is unusual to me, I thought he'd be too busy with his teaching and his own forum. That he is willing to enter into discussion here, where there is a lot of doubt of RBSD in general, shows his character. Can you imagine if Dan Inosanto or Paul Sharp were to drop in and post here?

Good post mate,

R.

Budo.Judo.Kev

Well with the Musashi endorsement where do i sign up . (he must teach some slick knife defense)

Odysseus

Baggio, Musashi, looking forward to meeting you again;)

Budo.Judo.Kev

100 euro is kinda expensive though for me.

Odysseus

Have you hard of MABS, maybe they can help!

Millionaire

Yes Roper....there is massive cross over in RBSD.

If you listen to Geoff Thompsons Podcast....july I think... it will tell you alot about this. he talks alot about boxing for RBSD.... please listen to it... i think you will enjoy it... only 10mins long too.

If you look at www.senshido.com home of shredder, to graduate into the level 2 SD calls, you must complete at least 1 year of there Thai Kickboxing (with savate) classes too. essentially these guys train MMA, but with a RBSD angle, with the pre fight and avoidence stuff of course. If you see the intro to the Shredder DVD... the outtakes.. .look vert similar to some SBG clips posted too.

Roper

Musashi wrote:

How many clubs could do what Mick Coup does, show you two or three hand techniques, a couple of kicking techniques, and the short range variations of those, and leave it at that! Practice those six or eight moves and you've got a self defense arsenal, get fitter and stronger and they will work better.

Well, pretty much any boxing, Muay Thai or good FC Kickboxing club for a start. Thats not to dismiss what Mick does, I couldn't comment on that having not see nor experienced it. But maybe thats my point from the last post, there are a lot of guys who seem to like the RBSD angle because it fits in nicely with the "100 ways to kill a man" type of thing they're looking for. Then the closer you get to source, and the most respected guys in that community, you hear things like the one I quoted above, plus Mick's post on improvised weapons, plus others saying "get fit first", "learn thai/judo first". It just seems odd, and I'm not one for trawling back though posts and forums, that in a lot of the debates that have been on here the RBSD "guys" (gross generalisation) didn't reflect that view.

Its always been my view of RBSD that some like to call it a system, when its not, its more a goal. Much like MMA.

yomchi

Budo.Judo.Kev wrote:

100 euro is kinda expensive though for me.

I thought that too when I first went along to the Lee Morrison seminar earlier this year, after an hour in to it I realised I would have a paid a lot more!

Baggio...

Budo.Judo.Kev wrote:

100 euro is kinda expensive though for me.

You get what you pay for...

These guys are at the top of their field. I think 100 euro is a very fair price. I've done Mick's foundation course a few times now, and every time I learn something new.

Considering there are other "so called" CQB courses here that currently charge 150-200 ($$$$$$$:mad:) euro for a day - and the material is CRAP. It's not even proper Combatives (it's more likely to land a student in hospital).

Budo.Judo.Kev

Roper wrote:

Its always been my view of RBSD that some like to call it a system, when its not, its more a goal. Much like MMA.

Nice observation Roper, I'd tend to agree, MMA/RBSD is an application of a training method.

Millionaire

Roper wrote:

Its always been my view of RBSD that some like to call it a system, when its not, its more a goal. Much like MMA.

Yes pretty much.

The training methods, would be pretty similar, perhaps the RBSD goal would be more strike orientated, say as oppose to a sport fighter who might spend more time being better on the ground range. (though the SD guy, should have basic ground/grappling skills too of course!).

Or the SD goal might work on pre fight rituals a little, or open handed strikes, as he won't be gloved up.

Other than that.....I think the training would be 80 -90% similar, with fitness, speed, power, live sparring in all ranges, etc etc...

I am just back after the a Thai session, and in my mind I can see very little difference btwn a MT right cross, a Geoff Thompson RBSD Right cross, a Mu Gen Do Kickboxer who learned KM/Combatives and now 18 months Thai right cross, or MMA Right cross I see on UFC or Ultimate Fighter! LOL! :cool:

Roper

Millionaire wrote:

The training methods, would be pretty similar

I think that would more likely depend on the gym or individual.

say as oppose to a sport fighter who might spend more time being better on the ground range

Not neccessarily. Theres all sorts of fighters out there, strikers, wrestlers, BJJers etc.

Millionaire

Roper wrote:

Not neccessarily. Theres all sorts of fighters out there, strikers, wrestlers, BJJers etc.

Yes of course, but...

Would a fighter not have to have a decent ground game to have a decent chance in MMA fight, regardless of if he would prefer strikes, clinch or ground?

I am fairly confident in my own ability as a striker, (with reason of course!) but I would not enter an MMA event as it would be over for me if it went to the ground.

What I mean by my op, is that someone with an RBSD goal, may not devote as much training time, to ground, as in SD ground is the last place you want to be. Striking would be the Number 1 in terms of time devoted.

Roper

Millionaire wrote:

Would a fighter not have to have a decent ground game to have a decent chance in MMA fight, regardless of if he would prefer strikes, clinch or ground?

Yes of course. The only reason the best strikers in MMA are able to be just that is because they have good ground games.

What I mean by my op, is that someone with an RBSD goal, may not devote as much training time, to ground, as in SD ground is the last place you want to be. Striking would be the Number 1 in terms of time devoted.

Well, maybe this is where we differ, but if there was 1 range that I really didn't want to be in (like the ground in the STREET) then I would perfect the skills I needed to get out of that range. (Escapes etc.) To learn how to escape properly and stand-up, you have to learn how to grapple to a decent extent. Just like a fighter would work ontheir weak range, be it ground or stand-up.

I don't see too many dissimilarities here TBH.

kenpo_dave

Millionaire wrote:

Would a fighter not have to have a decent ground game to have a decent chance in MMA fight, regardless of if he would prefer strikes, clinch or ground?

I would have thought a good striker would need good takedown defense rather than a strong ground game
Now, I do believe its necessary to be equally skilled in each range, with maybe a bit of favour given to the preferred/strongest range, but not too much favour.

OSU,

Dave.

Roper

kenpo_dave wrote:

I would have thought a good striker would need good takedown defense rather than a strong ground game
Now, I do believe its necessary to be equally skilled in each range, with maybe a bit of favour given to the preferred/strongest range, but not too much favour.

OSU,

Dave.

Well, good takedown defense = good ground game = being able to get up once down. I know what you mean though.

thebristolbloke

Hi All,

I trained with Mick yesterday and all told it's about an hour and a half each way for me to get there by foot and train.

I learn something every time I go and I really do believe it's world class instruction. If you have the opportunity to go along to this course do so as I promise you wont regret it.

take care


phil


____________________________________________

Owner of the 'tactical' (ie is black and has a clip!) torch!!

Baggio...

thebristolbloke wrote:

I learn something every time I go and I really do believe it's world class instruction. If you have the opportunity to go along to this course do so as I promise you wont regret it.

Nice one mate...

I've trained with Mick a few times now, and as you said there is always something new to learn. Plus he's a very good instructor.

Mick Coup

Just a quick heads-up regarding the upcoming seminar, due to unavoidable factors the date has moved slightly to: Sunday 17th September.

Hope this hasn't spoiled any plans - looking forward to seeing some of you there!

Mick