Superhuman martial artists?

Wondering who here believes that the study of martial arts can develop abilities that transcend those thought possible by modern science.

Do you believe in chi projection?
Do you believe in energy disruption?

Dragan

columok wrote:

Do you believe in chi projection?

Nope. I believe in a Spirit, or call it what you will. I believe there is something in me that is more than neurons and organs and electrical impulses. I believe that this gives me the power to do amazing things.

However, if it gives the power to drive my hand through a concete wall i will still break my hand.

The power within can only affect within....and while you may convince yourself that it will allow you do to some great things, you will still pay the price for them physically.

The mind is a very powerful tool , and while i do not believe that i can use my chi to knock you out from afar, i firmly believe that with enough time, and patience and practice, i can CONVINCE the willing that i can do it.

columok wrote:

Do you believe in energy disruption?

Nope. I believe in a half brick in a sock. Disrupt that.

If i hit you right, you are going down, if i hit you right in the right place with the right thing, you are going down for a very long time.

Even if you can disrupt the energy from a blow, a certain sense of determination means i will find something you won't be able to stop....like a fridge.....dropped from a height!!!

kodute

columok wrote:

Do you believe in chi projection?

Nope

columok wrote:

Do you believe in energy disruption?

Nope

Believing in those things is like believing in Santa, the tooth fairy or creationism! :cool:

Millionaire

I don't know much about Chi, but I would like to find out more.

Fianna Gym Pearse told interesting story of two King Fu guys he went to china with, who studied Chi and did some amazing things. Maybe Fianna will tell story again?

Yeah he hinted at it before. Personally I want to hear more.

To be honest, without meaning to stir things up, there's only one person I've heard defend chi balls and energy projection on boards. I'd hope that those kind of myths have been widely disspelled.

Baggio...

Nope...... In my opinion they are just stories to "mesmerize" naive students. Just like our obese friend - George Dillman.

Defying physics!? - not possible. Well... not by any “ye old Kung Fu master”. I believe in good body mechanics and the "human will". That's about it.

Dragan

The thoughts of a Master on defying physics

dlofnep

Nope & Nope.

I do think however that some people are very head strong and can mentally prepapre themselves in amazing fashion.. Like the guys that Genki Sudo let rip on and what not.

Miles Long

I'm also not convinced on this one (reffering to both questions) but It would be interesting to hear a knowledgable account/story about the subject.

I'm all ears ... well eyes really.

pma-ire

columok wrote:

Yeah he hinted at it before. Personally I want to hear more.

To be honest, without meaning to stir things up, there's only one person I've heard defend chi balls and energy projection on boards. I'd hope that those kind of myths have been widely disspelled.

Who was that?

I'd rather not say Paul though he practices an art that makes some outlandish claims about their "signature" abilities.

pma-ire

columok wrote:

Wondering who here believes that the study of martial arts can develop abilities that transcend those thought possible by modern science.

Some people think so!

columok wrote:

Do you believe in chi projection?
Do you believe in energy disruption?

I myself don't believe in these things (even went through a long time of believing and practicing such things!)

But I do believe that we (humans) have massive potential when we focus our minds to achive seemingly impossible results!

Chi like many Chinese words can mean many things!!

It can be directly translated as energy and so can also take on as many meanings and forms of energy as the English word can!!

In TCM they use the theory of Chi being your live energy and when you get sick this energy is disrupted! So to many it is a very real thing! It really will depend on your cultural experience? Or how you take the meaning to the word Chi!

EWheelChair

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiEsktRiCXo&search=bas%20rutten

This man has abilitys that defy science.

Clive

Yes, I believe in a lot of stuff.

crokester

Im with the rest of ye on this one in that i dont believe there is anything external to the material body and mind that gives supernatural powers. But define supernatural powers; thats a difficult task. Is it something science cant explain? Is it the ability to perform fantastic feats? Todays supernatural is often tomorrows science. What was put down to God many years ago is now explained. Volcanos are no longer the rumblings of Gods but the movement of tectonic plates. Scientists today are completly perplexed about the power of placebo; how can a patient thats been given chalk recover from their cancer just bacause they were told it was life saving medicine? Thats something we will some day explain and put down to material cause and effect, but for the mean time, some people will still travel to Knock each year, become cured, and put it down to supernatural. How does this apply to MA!? Well we may find out that some people do have the ability to use their brains in different ways from others to do phenominal things, nothing supernatural about that, just unexplained for the moment!

Millionaire

crokester wrote:

Volcanos are no longer the rumblings of Gods but the movement of tectonic plates. /

Who made the tectonic plates?

or did they just come along my themselves one day?

crokester

HaHa! A Mr Stephen Hawkins might answer that a little better then me!

Millionaire

crokester wrote:

HaHa! A Mr Stephen Hawkins might answer that a little better then me!

LOL!!!! lets create a big creationist Vs evolutionist row!

judomick

just out of curiosity, could everyone please post the main art the study and whether they would be more inclined towards creationism or evolution?

MMA

Evomalution

Tim_Murphy

lets create a big creationist Vs evolutionist row!

Best to make it a row because an intelligent debate on the subject wouldn't take very long.

Picture from Family Guy:

Dragan

Kickboxing and i will go with........Evolution.....apparently it's all because someone left a sandwich on a beach.

SorGan

Dragan wrote:

Kickboxing and i will go with........Evolution.....apparently it's all because someone left a sandwich on a beach.

GOD left the sandwich on a beach, he told me through the microwave..:)



Well in certan ma, its more about diverting/ amassing the energy we all use to walk/talk/jump, into diferant parts of the body for various effects..
now on paper this sounds, if not normal then potentialy plausible.
But as for knocking people out from across the room and sh1t, no thank you.:mad:

pma-ire

judomick wrote:

just out of curiosity, could everyone please post the main art the study

Hmmm... TaeKwon-Do/Korean Karate I guess??

judomick wrote:

and whether they would be more inclined towards creationism or evolution?

Evolution!

Miles Long

TKD - and I'm pro evolution!

This is a little one sided. Would it be possible to mail someone to get thought from the far side of the fence for the thread?
Did some one mention religious Ma clubs? Maybe one of them?

FiannaGym.com

Hey guys. I absolutely believe in Chi. It has answered loads of questions for me that I am sure modern science could do but Chi was convienient.

Anyway, the story about me going to China basically goes like this...

I went to China for a San Shou match. It was held in the Jing Wu (From fist of fury, fist of legend and fearless films) which had a mix of various kung fu styles, Chi Kung and San Shou. The San SHou fighters fought, I dont know if that indicated an understanding of what was effective in fighting or something else, but lets not speculate.

I god to see up close the dudes lying on glass while getting rocks broken on their chests with sledge hammers. I got to punch a dude as hard as I could in the guts 5 or 6 times, all while he laughed. Now I've hit dudes who have conditioned their abs and this was very different. Anyway...

That was all interesting and all but myself and the other European San Shou fighter didnt train while we were there, but a couple of blokes from Liverpool did....

In one week they trained 6 hours a day, at the end they got "shocked" by the CHi Kung instructor and then sat down, placed bricks on their heads and another dude smashed the bricks with a sledge hammer!

On eof them learned to smack himself in the chest with a cleaver. I even had the "pleasure" of hitting him in the chest with the cleaver (which we bought in a kitchen shop) full force. No at that time I couldnt slash him but he asured me that that was the next step.. I was pretty impressed with wwhat he could do anyway.

THe second guy, Paul Rimmer, learned to place a spear in his throught (and before you think he put it against the bone or at a particular part or what ever) he didnt he just put it in and leaned is aprox 18 stone frame on it to bend the shaft of the spear. He could also put chop sticks against his throught and smash them by driving them into his neck. All pretty impressive. WHat is most interesting is that Paul Rimmer introduced MMA to me on that trip. He trained in Next Genn with Chris Brennan just like I did and now runs Next Generation LIverpool.

Also, when they trained this Chi Kung they didnt need to breath or do movements to prepare themselves, thats a myth that emerged from the Shaolin Monk shows where they play up the show a bit. THese guys could just turn around and do it. Also, hard Chi kung of this type, once its developed, only needs to be harvested about once a month, apparently.

Pretty interesting stuff Im sure you agree. Science doesnt claim to answer everything. As I have said before, on these boards people use "logic" to argue in defence of "science" which of course is such a nonsense since "Science" is by definition "illogical".

So while people live in the ignorance of a culturally fascilitated logic/science rationale it stands to "reason" that other cosmologies could by assimilated too.

Either way, if I had the chance to learn this stuff again I totally would, As everyone knows I'd prefer to be training in CHute Boxe but this stuff would be cool to know.

Peace

Silverfox

None in particular.


Evolution.

Millionaire

thats interesting! so Chi Gung?

I would love to learn some in future too!

kodute

Firstly let me say that sounds pretty cool. I really admire these guys ability to perform these acts on their body! I dont believe this was a mystical energy called Chi though. Nor do the Shaolin Monks summon energys to do what they do. These tricks have scientific explanations.

FiannaGym.com wrote:

THe second guy, Paul Rimmer, learned to place a spear in his throught (and before you think he put it against the bone or at a particular part or what ever) he didnt he just put it in and leaned is aprox 18 stone frame on it to bend the shaft of the spear.

This is a well documented "trick" along the lines of firewalking. People with no Chi training whatsoever can accomplish this. The cartilage in ones throat is surprisingly strong!

FiannaGym.com wrote:

Also, hard Chi kung of this type, once its developed, only needs to be harvested about once a month, apparently.

Im sorry, could you elaborate on this? What do you mean by harvesting?

Do they actually go out and harvest the Chi from the fields and sell it to George Dillman so he can throw it at his students?:rolleyes:

pma-ire

kodute wrote:

Do they actually go out and harvest the Chi from the fields and sell it to George Dillman so he can throw it at his students?:rolleyes:

Look Dillman is a muppet!

Don't tar everything that he claims to be able to do with his name!!

Niall Keane

In the style I practice there is what is called Tai Chi Nei Gung or 100 Day Gung. When practiced the student takes a test after 100 days where someone jumps onto their abdomen 3 times from a height of 6ft. look up PTTC sites and you’ll find vids and photos of this. This is the basic level. You should be able to accept force if you want to deal it out!
Chi in martial arts always refers to breath and circulation. Nei means internal. Think of airbags in cars, and the Diaphragm muscle rather than the abs. basically you are training the chi –in the jumps case the lungs (airbags) and Diaphragm muscle to react to pressure. A sensitive coordination is required. Hence the exercises are preformed slowly.
The first stage of Nei-Gung is unity of breath and movement, the second unity of intent & focus with movement / application, the third (complete) stage is mastery, where every inch of the body is aware and instantly able to be utilized in defense or offence.
This is not magic just gung fu – attainment through great effort. Will it help you win competition fights, well sometimes it breaks the opponents will and you do, sometimes, because you can accept and easily ignore attacks such as thigh kicks, you don’t notice them as an attack, and the opponent will gather points for something that doesn’t bother you? And so from my own experience – I lost a semi at the 2005 worlds, despite having been the only one to knock with punches, and throws my opponent to the Lei Tai, the fact was after watching the video I had to acknowledge that given a kick to the thighs is worth 1 point, a throw 2 points and a knock down 2 points, his frequency of low kicks landing was greater tan my throws or “punches landing him on the canvas”., and so therefore he justified his split decision win. So this ability could piss you off???
If you are looking for science, when we dance around an opponent to gain a breather say, if we hinder the chi i.e. circulation by tucking down the head and contracting our arm muscles in the guard we prevent / delay circulation (chi) and thus recovery, if we as the tai chi chuan classics tell us - suspend the head top, and be relaxed, the blood flows more freely, taking away toxins and releasing oxygen (gathering chi) into our bodies muscles, giving us more stamina. It’s as simple as that, to generate a strategy that allows us this comfort time goes beyond science and into the realm of art, where we entice our opponent’s response to allow us to do this. That’s my few pence worth anyway.
As for empty force and projecting chi, besides coughing, I believe some fools thought it magical when a competent fighter could faint and draw, or in Eastern terms, create a gap in their enemies consciousness. Anyway as a story grows by the telling, eventually, “getting me to drop my guard, became being able to move me without touching me, and finally with successive generations of lineage holders who never fought became able to knock someone down without touching them.” What do you think? Could I be right??

Roper

"Pain Blocking" and all of its various incarnations is actually a fairly common thing. Think hot coal walking and the Jim Rose circus!

There's nothing mystical about being mad enough to do this stuff, its mind over reflex. Sword swallowers (no they're not all retractable swords, I've met and seen a real one in action) essentially ignore the gag reflex to be able to do the things they do. It takes work, time and effort. Whay you'd want to do it, I don't know, but the world is full of strange people!

Now when it comes to people conjuring up mystical one touch knockout powers and such, well, that comes down to their victims having the ability to ignore the "this is stupid" reflex.

SorGan

Roper wrote:

"Pain Blocking" and all of its various incarnations is actually a fairly common thing. Think hot coal walking and the Jim Rose circus!

There's nothing mystical about being mad enough to do this stuff, its mind over reflex. Sword swallowers (no they're not all retractable swords, I've met and seen a real one in action) essentially ignore the gag reflex to be able to do the things they do. It takes work, time and effort. Whay you'd want to do it, I don't know, but the world is full of strange people!

Now when it comes to people conjuring up mystical one touch knockout powers and such, well, that comes down to their victims having the ability to ignore the "this is stupid" reflex.

mr roper
Far be it for me to claim a lot of knowllege on this subject,perhaps niall can help me out, but from what i understand it goes a bit farther than blocking pain but in some (claimed/witnessed)cases resisting injury..:)

judomick

Roper wrote:

"Pain Blocking" and all of its various incarnations is actually a fairly common thing. Think hot coal walking and the Jim Rose circus!

people can walk on hot coals because wood is a really bad conductor of heat, if it was metal or some other good conductor it wouldnt be possible without serious burns, it just looks really cool and theres fire which always looks dangerous

http://express.howstuffworks.com/mb-firewalking.htm

FiannaGym.com

I hate these threads, they're never "Hey I just learned something new" but always "hey I misunderstood something due to my despirate need to asimilate it into my existing cosmology".

Peace

SorGan

columok wrote:

Wondering who here believes that the study of martial arts can develop abilities that transcend those thought possible by modern science.

Do you believe in chi projection?
Do you believe in energy disruption?

is science wrong? it seems a few irish science chaps may be changing the rule books on energy.http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060818/bs_afp/irelandscienceenergy
perhaps they dont know everything yet.

kodute

SorGan wrote:

is science wrong?

Science is never wrong because it has theories, theories can change when new facts or observations come to light.

SorGan wrote:

it seems a few irish science chaps may be changing the rule books on energy.http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060818/bs_afp/irelandscienceenergy
perhaps they dont know everything yet.

Approach this whole free energy malarky with a bucket-load of scepticism. :rolleyes:

Roper

FiannaGym.com wrote:

I hate these threads, they're never "Hey I just learned something new" but always "hey I misunderstood something due to my despirate need to asimilate it into my existing cosmology".

Peace

To quote Melvin Udall, "I'm drowning and you're describing the water!" Its all very well sitting on the edge and pointing things like that out, but you've just stooped to condescend, not contribute. If you hate them, why contribute?

Cheers,
Barry