Turn the Nuts; slow or push?

Mellor

Live tournament. Around 70 players start. Last 18, top 8 get paid. 1st is €1000.
I am second to chipldr by about 2k. Most of the table is way behind.

Blinds are raising quickly and due up in next few hands.

Blinds 400/800.
Player1 c.8k (Dealer)
Plater2 c.6k
Player3 4k
Villian 24k
Player4 10k
Hero 22k
Player 20k

Villian (UTG) makes it 1600. Player 4 folds. I call with AdQd. Fold. Fold.
Small blind calls and big blind folds. (Pot 5600)
Flop 2h5d10d.
Villian bets 3000.
I call. (Pot 11600)
Player 2 folds.
Turn 8d. Making me the nut flush.
Villian bets 2000.
After checking my cards and a pause, I flat call. (Pot 15600)
River 5c.
Villian pushes all-in for 17k+.
Action??

Rnger

Any reads on him here? Is he any good? Have you seen him min raise utg before, does he do this with KK/AA? I'm calling here against Joe Villian.

Legend_DIT

I'm calling the river here - only worry is Pocket 10's or 2's if I'm reading it right...

I would've raised the turn (probably to 6k), but I don't think a flat call is awful...

Killme00

Yeah you gotta raise the turn

I would still call here

Mellor

He's an above average player. The way the table is being played, min raise is standard, and people are raising/calling with pairs or two face cards, so range is pretty big.
I know I could of raised on the turn, but wanted to represent a drawing flush, and then push the river to look like a steal.
His all in is biggest bet of the night, does he want a call?.

fuzzbox

I raise the turn, and then I'm all in on any river.

As played, I have to call and take my medicine if he beats me.

BrokenArrows

he could easily be in the hand with low pocket pairs ie 22

If you say he is a good enough player than he could put you on the flush and is pushing cause he is pretty sure you are going to call.

The reason i say this is because a similar hand happened to me today. Except a straight instead of a flush was the guys hand. I knew he had hit but his card to hit made my house so i pushed and gota insta call.

Got a nice $600 for that hand.

empirix

Personally, i'm all in here Pocket 10's is your worry here

TheRock

In the absence of a read or previous it's an instant call for me.
I'm not putting him on pocket 10s, 5s or 2s with a min raise UTG. Pockets Aces or Kings perhaps.

I dont know about raising the turn. I've the nut flush and there is nothing scary on the board. Villian has been leading the betting and I want him to lead on the river. If he is on Aces, Kings or Queens I'd want him to make 2 pair or even trips and get all his money. If the board pairing gave him the full house then its just one of those things.

What did you do? What had he? come on tell us......

Bandana boy

I lay down knowing I get beat here to often
but you called with nuts on turn hoping for a river bet you got river bet so call it has to be

On a look back dude bets 2K into 12k thats a blocking bet if ever i saw 1 and you have to raise here 100% of the time

Gholimoli

Bandana boy wrote:

I lay down knowing I get beat here to often
but you called with nuts on turn hoping for a river bet you got river bet so call it has to be

On a look back dude bets 2K into 12k thats a blocking bet if ever i saw 1 and you have to raise here 100% of the time

there is not a chance in hell you would lay this down man.

Bandana boy

Gholimoli wrote:

there is not a chance in hell you would lay this down man.

not true
If i was playing there is no chance i am not all in or pot committed on turn but that bet on river after action we have seen i lay down unless i have history to the contrary

Bandana boy

if we are being honest
i have made my move on the flop

Gholimoli

Bandana boy wrote:

if we are being honest
i have made my move on the flop

yeah this is more like it ,but dont say your capable of folding the nut flush there cuz we both know otherwise;)

Rnger

He has a full house

Good man daniel, good man yerself

fuzzbox

Bandana boy wrote:

if we are being honest
i have made my move on the flop

Yeah, me too, but there you go.

Prob, we only get him to fold AK with a flop raise and JJ+ stays in ... cos nobody ever folds overpairs.

valor

fuzzbox wrote:

I raise the turn, and then I'm all in on any river.

As played, I have to call and take my medicine if he beats me.

I play it like this

Bandana boy

Gholimoli wrote:

yeah this is more like it ,but dont say your capable of folding the nut flush there cuz we both know otherwise;)

Ah dont know me as well as you think G man
I have laid nut flush to action from certain players before
hell i have laid down 2nd house as well

sure i laid down a monster hand against u last night

fuzzbox

Bandana boy wrote:

Ah dont know me as well as you think G man
I have laid nut flush to action from certain players before
hell i have laid down 2nd house as well

sure i laid down a monster hand against u last night

You lie.

You cant even lay down middle pair no kicker !!!

Bandana boy

fuzzbox wrote:

You lie.

You cant even lay down middle pair no kicker !!!

thats only against u fuzz when i suspect(and am right) that you have nothing

2nd pair no kicker can be good against postion whores continuation bets
Sure i know 2nd pair no kicker has me dominated many a time when i am contining from the button

i am telling u i laid down a monster last night to the G-mans push i have tightened up a lot :eek:

fuzzbox

Bandana boy wrote:

thats only against u fuzz when i suspect(and am right) that you have nothing

Oh .... but you suspect that I have nothing 100% of every hand that we ever play together !!!!

Bandana boy wrote:

i am telling u i laid down a monster last night to the G-mans push i have tightened up a lot :eek:

So you only see ... what? .... 46% of flops now? .

Gholimoli

Bandana boy wrote:

thats only against u fuzz when i suspect(and am right) that you have nothing

2nd pair no kicker can be good against postion whores continuation bets
Sure i know 2nd pair no kicker has me dominated many a time when i am contining from the button

i am telling u i laid down a monster last night to the G-mans push i have tightened up a lot :eek:

you had absoloutly nothing last nite when you layed it down and you know it.
i was so certain that you had nothing but a draw that i pushed with my third pair knowing i was ahead even if i got called man.
you also cant let your button go with out a raise which made it easy for me to extract a good sized bet with 85s on a missed flop.
i agree with Fuzz that you cant let "second pair no kicker" go either never mind a made nut flush.:D

Gholimoli

fuzzbox wrote:

Oh .... but you suspect that I have nothing 100% of every hand that we ever play together !!!!



So you only see ... what? .... 46% of flops now? .

nah more like 64% of them...;)

Bandana boy

fuzzbox wrote:

So you only see ... what? .... 46% of flops now? .

Depends on the level at 1-2 about 32% at 5-10 about 42% and varied in between

but thats fine for my game

Gholimoli

Bandana boy wrote:

Depends on the level at 1-2 about 32% at 5-10 about 42% and varied in between

but thats fine for my game

do you really play 5-10 man?

Bandana boy

In fairness g man that hand was a little bit of a race to get the bluff in first
I nearly (and should have) CR you on Flop as i also knew your where light and i had nice draw hit monster hand on turn I led to block your push as i really wanted to see river which obv didnt work
But i dont think on two occasions we played you can call me a cs because that is not true

Bandana boy

Gholimoli wrote:

do you really play 5-10 man?

occasionally when i am feeling bullish

Mellor

Bandana boy wrote:

occasionally when i am feeling bullish

Back to the original topic, I was planning on letting him bet into me until I had the river, I had to call 15k to win 30k, was going to push with any card on the river. So I called.
He turned over 22 and said sorry.
Think it was just a hand were I was alwas going bust. Even a c.6k raise on the turn from me would of been called.

I was out and bitter.

fuzzbox

Mellor wrote:

Back to the original topic, I was planning on letting him bet into me until I had the river, I had to call 15k to win 30k, was going to push with any card on the river. So I called.
He turned over 22 and said sorry.
Think it was just a hand were I was alwas going bust. Even a c.6k raise on the turn from me would of been called.

I was out and bitter.

With circa 14k in the middle, a turn push is not out of order.

fuzzbox

Bandana boy wrote:

occasionally when i am feeling suicidal

fyp

Rnger

A little bit of info about the villian's utg raising range could have ended this preflop. The way it did play out (once he made a set/full and you made a flush), your bound to go broke.

Mellor

Rnger wrote:

A little bit of info about the villian's utg raising range could have ended this preflop. The way it did play out (once he made a set/full and you made a flush), your bound to go broke.

The standard in the tourney is low, is a local €25 game with a large field. I'd consider him to be a good player though, but the tourney was approaching the stage where the blinds can't be allowed limp, and any big raise is only call with an all in raise. The range is massive. I figured I have overs to a pair, or higher face cards.
Just one of those habds I guess.