Ruling please

WH BONNEY

Blinds 300 & 600
Seat 10 utg +1 is contemplating a raise. Seat 1 is not aware and raises to 1800. Almost at the same time (but just after seat 1's chips have hit the felt)seat 10 raises to 1200.

Where does seat 1's bet stand.

This happened last night and I am 99% certain the wrong ruling was given. It turned out that it wasnt important, but for future reference I would like to know what is correct.

Lplate

AFAIK once his chips are over the line that's where they stay. It's the player's own responsibility to know the action before him. What happens next depends on the rules of the establishment. The first raiser has raised 600, so p1 has raised another 600, however in some places he'll have to put in another 600 to "double" the first bet.

peeko

yeah the guy who bet out of turn has committed his chips to the pot...

The_Flyer

what about player 10 though? Does he get to take his bet back or does that have to stand too even though the action was on him and he is now being disadvantaged?

biteme

Seat 10's bet stands and Seat 1 has to make a minimum raise of what ever seat 10 bet. Action continues as normal then.

Mr. Flibble

biteme wrote:

Seat 10's bet stands and Seat 1 has to make a minimum raise of what ever seat 10 bet. Action continues as normal then.

I presume Saet 1 could also opt to fold and forfeit his 1800?

Mellor

biteme wrote:

Seat 10's bet stands and Seat 1 has to make a minimum raise of what ever seat 10 bet. Action continues as normal then.

600 to call. Seat 10 min raises 600 to 1200 total. Seat 1 mins raises 600 to 1800 total. Seam pretty in order. Seat 10 was betting anyway so the only player at a loss is Seat 1. He may not have raised if knew of previous bet, but he was out of turn so tough luck.

biteme

Mr. Flibble wrote:

I presume Saet 1 could also opt to fold and forfeit his 1800?

yup of course.


I would like to know what ruling was given though.

nicryan

well it depends on the club rules...in the fitz I think the raise to 1200 stands and the raise by seat 1 to 1800 is an underraise so unless he declaired raise its just a call of the 1200....


-Nic

WH BONNEY

Thanks guys.

The ruling that was given was that seat 1 was given back 600 in chips as his raise was not a enough to double seat 10's raise, so it was deemed a call of seat 1's raise.

I was of the opinion that once his chips crossed the line his bet stood, specifically because he acted out of turn and therefore was the first to enter the pot.

Regards - WH

Scouser in Dub

doesn't seem right to me

span

WH BONNEY wrote:

Thanks guys.

The ruling that was given was that seat 1 was given back 600 in chips as his raise was not a enough to double seat 10's raise, so it was deemed a call of seat 1's raise.

I was of the opinion that once his chips crossed the line his bet stood, specifically because he acted out of turn and therefore was the first to enter the pot.

Regards - WH

it depends on wheather he said raise or not. If he did he must add another 600 to make it a full raise or he can fold.

If he just threw in the 1800 without saying raise then it would be counted as a call of the 1200 raise

WH BONNEY

Span,
I think your missing my main point ie seat 1 acted out of turn.

nicryan

it doesn't matter if he acted out of turn...by the time the betting actually got to him it was 1200 to go...and he underraised...so if he didn't say raise its just a call.


-Nic

span

WH BONNEY wrote:

Span,
I think your missing my main point ie seat 1 acted out of turn.

I know seat one acted out of turn. It's just a question of whether he said raise or not when he threw in his chips

Scouser in Dub

This is where I am confused though if the BB was 600 and seat ten raised it to 1200 thats still only a 600 raise which would allow seat 1 to raise it to 1800

or am I wrong here

from sport bet.com

Where the blinds are 5$ and 10$

In the more likely case that the first raiser makes a somewhat larger bet, for example, a bet of $40 (which would be a raise of $30), the next player could fold, call the $40, or raise. If he raises, he would have to place at least $70 in the pot, because his raise would have to be at least as much as the previous raise. The only upper limit on the size of his raise is the number of chips he has in front of him when the hand begins.

5starpool

Scouser in Dub wrote:

This is where I am confused though if the BB was 600 and seat ten raised it to 1200 thats still only a 600 raise which would allow seat 1 to raise it to 1800

or am I wrong here

Depends where you are playing. In Ireland (generally) a valid raise has to be twice the total of the last amount (so therefore 2400 in this case). Online, and in other countries 1800 would be a valid raise to the 1200 bet (from 300-600 blinds).

I think seat 10 should be penalised for min raising in the first place. A good strapping should do the trick.

Scouser in Dub

makes sense now, cheers

WH BONNEY

Looks like the TD was spot on with his ruling.

Thanks guys.

Mr. Flibble

nicryan wrote:

well it depends on the club rules...in the fitz I think the raise to 1200 stands and the raise by seat 1 to 1800 is an underraise so unless he declaired raise its just a call of the 1200....

I think the ruling given is not inline with the rules used in most clubs.

Because player 1 put the chips in before player 10 then they must stay in. If they went in after then it should be a call. If you imagine that seat 1 put in the 1800 then seat 10 waited 20 seconds then minraised the blinds to 1200 I dont think anyone would say seat 1 should get 600 chips back.

But perhaps the ruling given is fairer than a by-the-book ruling.