Public / Private Road

VeVeX

Has anyone an idea where I could find out if a part of road in a shopping center is a publc or a private road??

elexes

get onto the shopping center manager / local co. council will have the info also

Henry Ford III

Why?

mikemac

Do rules of the road apply on private land? Maybe a stupid question

It's just that at my local shopping center there are zebra crossing and it's a rare motorist that doesn't speed past me while I'm crossing the road on one. In fact, I can't remember the last time someone stopped and let me use one.

Maybe they know something I don't

SGKM

I was stopped by the guards about 6 years ago (when I was 14) driving a car with my dad on the private road which leads up to my uncles farm. He turned a blind eye because he knew my uncle and told us not to drive there again because any road (publicly or privately owned) that the public has access to is regarded as a public road.

Victor

There are different meanings to the word "private". What you really want to find out is do the Road Traffic Acts / Rules of the Road apply.

In some cases they do.

dermot_sheehan

Shopping Centre Car parks are private in the sense that they're private land and there's no public right of way over it. That means the shopping centre can close the gates whenever it wants and exclude whoever it wants.

With regard to licences, roadworthiness, insurance, drunk driving, dangerous driving, etc, etc, the Road Traffic Act defines public place as:

"public place" means any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge

Which would cover a shopping centre car park.

VeVeX

A friend of mine got a ticket for parking on a single yellow in Blanchardstown Shopping center.

I was just thinking that if the shopping center management painted it there themselves how relivent is that line to the Garda.

corktina

.........which raises the question, what process does the council/NRA have to got through to determine traffic regualtions and speed limits etc in a given location...I cant believe that they can just impose whatever they see fit.....

popebenny16

Firstly, a public place is one where the public in general have a right to acccess, therefore the car park is a public place for the Road Traffic Acts.

Secondly, speed limits, parking restrictions and general traffic managment are governed by local council bye-laws. The Council engineer will make a recommendation to the county manager and the by-law will be drafted and enacted by the council by way of either a formal meeting or by order of the County Manager, depending on the bye-laws of each county. It may be worth checking out if and when and by what method this yellow line was put in. in respect of the blanchardstown shopping centre all the roads though it (not the car parks) are in the charge of the county council, they have the right to put parking restrictions there.

Rather interestingly, there was doubts over the validity of the 60kph speed limit on the Naas road during the widening, some judges were of the view that they relevent bye-laws werent used and threw out speeding charges when people were going over the 60. Might be worth checking out, might not.

Victor

popebenny16 wrote:

Rather interestingly, there was doubts over the validity of the 60kph speed limit on the Naas road during the widening, some judges were of the view that they relevent bye-laws werent used and threw out speeding charges when people were going over the 60. Might be worth checking out, might not.

Road works speed limits are not done by bye-laws, but by managerial order.

corktina

Victor wrote:

Road works speed limits are not done by bye-laws, but by managerial order.

and therefore are not enforcable? temporary traffic lights also i imagine? I guess the gards could prosceute for driving without due care and attention or suchlike though.....

Wishbone Ash

In the confines of Dublin Airport, the Airport police regularly carry out speed checks but AFAIK offenders can only be fined, they cannot have penalty points applied as it is private property. When there is an RTA within the airport, the Airport Police usually attend the scene first. The Gardai only attend if a person is injured.

mackerski

popebenny16 wrote:

in respect of the blanchardstown shopping centre all the roads though it (not the car parks) are in the charge of the county council, they have the right to put parking restrictions there.

This being so, the centre practice of having their own staff regulate traffic flow on the roundabout access from centre roads would be pretty dubious.

Dermot

Wishbone Ash

I saw a Garda directing traffic today on a private road. I thought it was quite unusual and I certainly haven't witnessed it before.

mackerski wrote:

the centre practice of having their own staff regulate traffic flow on the roundabout access from centre roads would be pretty dubious.

In the old branch of Superquinn in Swords, the parking attendant used to regularly stop traffic on the main street to allow cars to exit from the shop. I used to drive on regardless as I didn't think he had any authority to do this. (It was next door to the Garda Station too!)