Up and coming hurling teams?

GreenDoor

Who are the up and coming Hurling teams? I think in 4-10 years time there will be more teams like Dublin, Antrim, Laois etc who will be able to challenge the top 8. Wexford are getting worse by the year but they'll improve also I'd say.

Are there any other besides the 3 I've mentioned?

monosharp

GreenDoor wrote:

Who are the up and coming Hurling teams? I think in 4-10 years time there will be more teams like Dublin, Antrim, Laois etc who will be able to challenge the top 8. Wexford are getting worse by the year but they'll improve also I'd say.

Are there any other besides the 3 I've mentioned?

Dublin ? Not likely.
Antrim ? Perhaps but they have an extremely small playing base.
Laois ? With a player like James Young anythings possible.

Kojak

GreenDoor wrote:

Who are the up and coming Hurling teams? I think in 4-10 years time there will be more teams like Dublin, Antrim, Laois etc who will be able to challenge the top 8. Wexford are getting worse by the year but they'll improve also I'd say.

Are there any other besides the 3 I've mentioned?

Wexford, like Offaly, will keep falling down the ladder over the coming years as they don't seem to have put in the time at under-age. Wexford especially.

This is why I believe that IF Dublin can hold onto their good underage hurling teams and players when they are around 18-20 (Because many of them are pretty good footballers also and may be drawn to the idea of playing in front of bigger crowds, more exposure etc.) then they will probably be the second strongest team in Leinster (behind Kilkenny).

Laois I'm afraid will continue to struggle. Antrim are caught in "no-mans land" as they are just about to hold their own in the top division while they are able to hammer the sh1te out of teams in the Christy Ring Cup.

A dark horse for the future would be Mayo. It may sound strange but they, along with Carlow, are putting in huge work at underage.

monosharp

Kojak wrote:

Wexford, like Offaly, will keep falling down the ladder over the coming years as they don't seem to have put in the time at under-age. Wexford especially.

This is why I believe that IF Dublin can hold onto their good underage hurling teams and players when they are around 18-20 (Because many of them are pretty good footballers also and may be drawn to the idea of playing in front of bigger crowds, more exposure etc.) then they will probably be the second strongest team in Leinster (behind Kilkenny).

Where do you get the reasoning behind that from ?

Galway and Limerick have being mopping up at underage level for years, have you seen any great significant change of power because of it ? Because i haven't.

And "second best team in leinster" is hardly something to be that proud of. Kilkenny are leagues above anyone else in Leinster, Wexford on the way down.

You could be the second best team in Leinster and still be just capable of taking 5th 6th place every year.

thirdmantackle

antrim minors nearly beat Limerick last year

antrim minors gave Galway a very close game this year

antrim have the hurlers, its just a case of them being isolated up in the Glens and not having enough competitive games to bring them up to the required level

Mayo or Carlow won't become much stronger - they don't have a big enough pool of players, despite the signs at underage, as they've only 7/8 hurling clubs

my best bets would be: Dublin, Kildare, Laois and possibly meath to become stronger

DUB

monosharp wrote:

Where do you get the reasoning behind that from ? Galway and Limerick have being mopping up at underage level for years, have you seen any great significant change of power because of it ? Because i haven't..

Okay it's not mopping up all the silverware but Galway got to the all Ireland final last year. inderage success is not a guarantee of success but it's an indicator that a county might make a breakthrough of some sort.

monosharp wrote:

And "second best team in leinster" is hardly something to be that proud of. Kilkenny are leagues above anyone else in Leinster, Wexford on the way down.

You could be the second best team in Leinster and still be just capable of taking 5th 6th place every year.

We've been very competitive with Kilkenny at u21 and minor level over the last number of years. Kilkenny have been winning all sorts at both levels during the same time period, therefore it's not out of this world to say Dublin might expect to move up the pecking order in the next 10 years, this improvement has been set back in no small way by several of the better hurlers defecting to the football panel. Keaney, Dotsy etc etc. I'm not saying we'll be lifting the Liam Mccarthy anytime soon but if we're not contenders for improvment then I do't know who is.

I'd say Antrim as well. Really hope so anyway.

aidan24326

It would be great to see a couple of new teams, like Carlow or Dublin, becoming competetive at the top level. But these teams are still a fair bit behind the very best. Dublin are progressing well at underage but will always have the problem of keeping players in hurling, while the likes of Carlow,Kildare and Mayo, despite their good work at underage level they are still a country mile behind the Corks and Kilkenny's of the hurling world and unfortunately that doesn't look likely to change anytime soon.
What you have now in hurling is Cork and KK at the top, then Galway,Clare,Waterford,Tipp and Limerick on the next level. Then a third tier of Offaly and Wexford, followed by a fourth tier with Antrim,Down,Westmeath,Dublin and Laois. After that the rest are just making up the numbers in the Ring and Rackard Cups. It really is a pity that we don't have more strong teams in hurling, but sadly that has always been the case.

DUB

The Dublin senior team are starting to make progress, Offaly only beat us by three points in the qualifiers, Limerick only by 6 after three great saves by their keeper, allbeit in bad conditions. It'll be interesting to see how we go again next year, the average age of these guys is about 21-22. We've hopefully Hiney back to bolster the defence next year and Keaney says every time he is interviewed that he wants to go back hurling at some stage, that his dream is to win a Leinster hurling title. True we're still a long long way off Cork and Kilkenny but i think we can get up a tier in the next couple of years, if these lads get experience and we keep the talent coming through who knows. The football panel is now very competitive for places so they shouldnt be turning any more hurlers heads for awhile.

Flukey

The big 3 are always there or thereabouts. In the 90s we had 5 All-Irelands in a row that were not won by any of the big 3, which is a record. Since the last of those, Offaly's win in 1998, the big 3 have held the All-Ireland title between them.

As to the up and coming teams, often they are just that: up and coming. They never quite get there. Dublin have some hope at present, but we've been here before, and not that long ago. The early 90s saw a very good hurling team in Dublin, that almost made the breakthrough, but just didn't quite make it. Laois have had teams like that too. Antrim likewise. Down and Derry too, plus others. Some have got within a puck of a ball of a victory that would have made them, but unfortunately it didn't happen.

As we've discussed in the Quarter Finals thread, what needs to be done is to put more work in on the ground and for the GAA to properly support that. Then the up and coming teams can arrive.

As I said in that thread, the Rackard, Ring and McCarthy Cups should be open for the teams themselves to choose which they compete in. There are a few teams there, that could do with more experience playing the bigger teams and although things are supposively being done to promote Hurling, some teams are being excluded. There area lot of counties with potential, but unfortunately that potential is not being tapped into or even given a chance to be tapped into.

GreenDoor

I don't count what happened before. This is a new era in hurling since the last couple of years since the Hurling development commitee made the Ring and Rackard cups. Now all teams have an opertunity to play during the summer. This is why county boards are now taking it more seriously and developing the game.

Take it from me that Dublin will definetly be a top class hurling team in (Guessing) about 5 years time. They in my opinion will be better than Wexford and Offaly's of this world. This is because of the under age development being done in Dublin. They have appointed people to see this true.

Antrim and Carlow and the likes are also putting effort into underage teams which will benefit them in the long term.

I know people say that this county has a small population etc but only 15 players can play at once.

The small village of Newtownshandrum were unheard of (even in cork) years ago and suddenly burst onto the scene winning the all Ireland club championship. This wasn't because of a freak it was because they were developing their players for years and it eventually paid off.

thirdmantackle

same with Athenry, never a force in hurling until a certain Mr Cloonan started teaching there

best way to improve hurling would be to get/encourage/kidnap young male primary teachers from kilkenny, cork, tipp and other traditional hurling areas and plant them up the country to places like Mayo, Roscommon, Laois, Meath, Westmeath, Kildare, Wicklow etc

the results would be seen in 15 years time

Danno

Laois have the potential to be challenging in the Leinster Final soon. Established players like James Young, Joe Phelan, Tommy Fitz, Joe Fitz, Patrick Mullanney, Mick McEvoy, Cahir Healy and Packie Cuddy will be joined with Willie Hyland, Conor Dunne, Matthew Whelan, Noel Delaney and Zane Keenan next year. A good campaign with this crop of players could put us right back there troubeling the big guns...

DUB

GreenDoor wrote:

I don't count what happened before. This is a new era in hurling since the last couple of years since the Hurling development commitee made the Ring and Rackard cups. Now all teams have an opertunity to play during the summer. This is why county boards are now taking it more seriously and developing the game.

I'd be inclined to agree. I also think that the coaching set-up in Dublin has totally changed, we've now 3 hurling development squads a year starting from 14 up, instead of one. This is exposing three times the talented hurlers to top class coaching then before, I always felt there was a slight weakness in the one development squad in that some people develop later then others and they might miss out on the dev squad. They're all far more likely to be caught now, plus as they're Dublin north, west and south, it means players have to travel across the city less.

You've also full time club coaches and hurling coaching courses being run that hundreds of people are attending. If nothing else club hurling in Dublin should really start to improve. All in all it is setup for sustained improvement, not just a flash in the pan one off team that does well for a couple of years.

I can see why they're putting this effort into Dublin hurling, If the hurlers can gain sustained success there is potential for a bandwagon to rival that of Munster rugby. If this happened then there is no reason for players to defect to football to play in front of a packed hill16 ... okay i'm getting carried away now .... :cool:

Danno wrote:

Laois have the potential to be challenging in the Leinster Final soon. Established players like James Young, Joe Phelan, Tommy Fitz, Joe Fitz, Patrick Mullanney, Mick McEvoy, Cahir Healy and Packie Cuddy will be joined with Willie Hyland, Conor Dunne, Matthew Whelan, Noel Delaney and Zane Keenan next year. A good campaign with this crop of players could put us right back there troubeling the big guns...

I read last year sometime that Paudie Butler set-up some really good program in Laois that had Laois hurling people very happy, but it didnt expand as to what he did. Have you any idea what those programs were?

Danno

The Hurling for Laois programme is still in existance and is quite successful. However, funding drawn down for it was later split with Carlow for their similar plans. Pity, they didn't double the cheque value!

Laois need a total new hurling board and a manager with vision. A club V county ethos needs to be eradicated. Basically, a Messiah is needed here before this generation of talent comes and goes.

Men like Niall Rigney and Tony Dunne and the two Cuddys who have graced the fields in the 90s were the best hurlers around, pity they never won any medals.

blackbelt

Teams like Dublin,Westmeath and Laois should come up in the next decade.Dublin hurling used to be big in the 60s and 70s but I think the hurling all ireland is really a 4 team race with teams like Cork,Kilkenny,Galway and Clare being way too strong for all other opposition

thirdmantackle

except Galway being out of it...

Waterford are a better hurling team than either Galway or Clare. Don't rule out the Banner though

while the GAA are putting extra money into hurling in the weaker counties, it won't make any difference because the same people who presided over hurling's stagnation will be entrusted with its revival.

The funding from Central Council is often just replacing money that the provincial councils were providing, so its not really extra money in many cases

Amazotheamazing

If underage success were anything to go by Galway would win every other year and Limerick would be able to play more than one half of decent hurling a championship. Galway in particular can't keep wasting the talent, surely they'll get their chance to dominate hurling soon?

Collie D

Dublin hurling can only improve, it is being promoted by the County Board. When I was younger, the club I played football for didn't even have a hurling team and neither did any of the other clubs around that I know of. Now, I see lots of kids walking about with hurleys (this was usually a sign of somebody about to get their head kicked in but they actually play). The only difficulty is keeping them in hurling and not losing them to football, although having said that Conal Keaney has been brilliant for the Dublin football team since he decided to stick to one code

thirdmantackle

imagine how good of a hurler he would be if he stuck to that...

GreenDoor

thirdmantackle wrote:

while the GAA are putting extra money into hurling in the weaker counties, it won't make any difference because the same people who presided over hurling's stagnation will be entrusted with its revival.

The funding from Central Council is often just replacing money that the provincial councils were providing, so its not really extra money in many cases

Some counties like Roscommon go out of their way to keep hurling down.

One of the worst counties in the country has to be Kerry. On the radio the other day a man was on who said hurling is the main game in many parts of Kerry. I was stunned. Why then have Kerry not got a half decent hurling team I wonder? There is a fairly large population in Kerry and it surely could have a decent hurling team. The Kerry county board are another trying to keep hurling down.

Other counties with very bad records include Tyrone, Armagh etc.

Collie D

GreenDoor wrote:

Other counties with very bad records include Tyrone, Armagh etc.

Well if their football teams are anything to go by, I'd prefer if they didn't hand out big sticks to them

thirdmantackle

thats not quite the full picture in Roscommon

we actually have a seperate Hurling Board. They are the main problem! Same faces for 20 years, with no idea of how to do anything right

GreenDoor

thirdmantackle wrote:

thats not quite the full picture in Roscommon

we actually have a seperate Hurling Board. They are the main problem! Same faces for 20 years, with no idea of how to do anything right

Thats the point I'm making. County boards will pretend to be doing something to keep the top GAA men off their backs.

Roscommon don't even have enough sliotars to train with.