betfair, laying bets

Chucky the tree

Not 100% sure how this laying bets lark works so need a bit of help.


Use Derry city vs IFK gothenburg as an example.


You can lay IFK for 2.14. So if i do at 4euro the liability comes up at 4.56euro.
So does this mean that if Derry either win or draw i will win 4 euro, however if IF winn i will have to pay 4.56?

wb

Chucky the tree wrote:

Not 100% sure how this laying bets lark works so need a bit of help.


Use Derry city vs IFK gothenburg as an example.


You can lay IFK for 2.14. So if i do at 4euro the liability comes up at 4.56euro.
So does this mean that if Derry either win or draw i will win 4 euro, however if IF winn i will have to pay 4.56?

To convert betfair odds into traditional odds, just take away one. Therefore 5's becomes 4/1...... 3 on betfair is 2/1 etc.

In your example, the lay price is 2.14, which works out at one euro, forteen cent to one - in traditional odds. Since you are being the bookie, if you lay the team, you will need to pay out 1.14 for every euro that you let the backer stake if Derry win or it is a draw. ..... If you let the backer use the minimum €4 stake, and derry win or it is a draw, you will owe out €4.56.... If the bet goes right, you can keep the stake. There is a way to back and lay under the minimum though.


Check out this sticky from the Horse Racing forum:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054910815

Regards,

Wayne

GreenDoor

I find the betfair odds stupid tbh. Why can't they just have normal odds like if a team is evens it would be 1.0 instead of the stupid 2.0. I cannot understand this.

What I'd advise a new user to do would be do some small bets and get used to it. It's a little confusing at the start but it's easy when your used to it.

wb

GreenDoor wrote:

I find the betfair odds stupid tbh. Why can't they just have normal odds like if a team is evens it would be 1.0 instead of the stupid 2.0. I cannot understand this.

.

While I suppose it is offputting for new members, the decimal system offers way more scope to offer detailed 'in-between' prices compared to tradtional odds. Remember, just take away one! I hated it at first, but to be honest after a while, I started to prefer it, and now dislike working out bookie odds.

For example: take the odds of 7/4.......

To work out what the stake to one unit is, you would have to divide 7 by 4 which ends up at one euro, seventy five cent to one. Not very handy unless you are good at maths or have a calculator.

A quick glance at betfair odds will tell you this immediatley as it will be expressed as 2.75........ simply take away one, and you have your answer.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

westtip

Chucky the tree wrote:

Not 100% sure how this laying bets lark works so need a bit of help.


Use Derry city vs IFK gothenburg as an example.


You can lay IFK for 2.14. So if i do at 4euro the liability comes up at 4.56euro.
So does this mean that if Derry either win or draw i will win 4 euro, however if IF winn i will have to pay 4.56?

As it turned out it would have been a good lay. My advice on betfair is always check if you are getting value, and don't forget the cost of commission. If you fancy a particular bet on a football match - always check the prices on one of the odds comparison sites - eg www.betbrain.com Look at the best price for a match. lets say the top price of a match on the team you fancy is 1.44 (4/9 in old money), with an average price over a number of bookmakers of say 1.38, the 1.44 represents value - to match 1.44 on betfair (ie to get the same profit of 44 cent for every euro bet) you will need to get a price of 1.46 to take account of the 5% commission you will pay on your winnings. The prices on betfair do tend to be better and the total book does tend to be nearer 100% - so go on Betfair and bid to back your team at say 1.48, this price will pay you 1.456 for every unit staked. If you get your price matched - and this is more likely to happen 2 or 3 days before the event, you are in a strong position. If the market then gets strong and your team shortens up to say 1.40 you have the opportunity to lay your team at 1.40 and give yourself a green screen (where whatever the result you cannot lose)

eg back team A with 100 euro to win at 1.48 - will give you potential winnings of 48 euro less 5% commission = 45.6 euro.

team A shortens on Betfair to 1.4 so lay them to lose 40 euro. Ie you are prepared to accept a bet of 100 Euro from a punter who wants to win 40 Euro.

Result: If Team A wins. You win 45.6 Euro on your win bet and Lose 40 euro on your lay = net profit 5.6 euro.

Result if Team A loses or draws: Your win bet loses 100 euro but your lay wins you 100 euro so you break even.

What's more if you get to this situation, the 140 euro you used to bet and lay will be released back into your betfair account to use on another bet or be available to draw from your account.

In total you have used 140 euro in your bet: 100 on the win bet, 40 on the lay and will have either broken even or made a small profit - you will lose nothing. If the result was a win you won 5.6 euro with a turnover of 140 - a profit of 4% on turnover over a three day period this may seem like small winnings, but Put in perspective - Where will you get 4% interest in three days. You would be betting like a bookmaker, with small profit/loss per transaction but need to have lots of transactons.


Beware though you can get your fingers burnt and sometimes prices go in the opposite direction.

uRbaN

I use three different online betting accounts and Betfair offers the greatest value for your bet in most cases. Having to understand and get used to the interface is a small price to pay...

GreenDoor

wbailey wrote:

While I suppose it is offputting for new members, the decimal system offers way more scope to offer detailed 'in-between' prices compared to tradtional odds. Remember, just take away one! I hated it at first, but to be honest after a while, I started to prefer it, and now dislike working out bookie odds.

I've always prefered decimal odds to the traditional bookie odds.

wbailey wrote:

........ simply take away one, and you have your answer.

Thats what I have the problem with. Why do we have to take away the 1? Makes no sense at all. I've gotten used to it over time but can't see the point.

GreenDoor

The only good thing I can see is it helps the layers by given the impression of bigger odds. Sort of like shops selling things for 99c instead of 1e.

Bateman

GreenDoor wrote:

I've always prefered decimal odds to the traditional bookie odds.


Thats what I have the problem with. Why do we have to take away the 1? Makes no sense at all. I've gotten used to it over time but can't see the point.

Because the "1", is your unit, your stake, which is included in your winnings. If you place a bet at the bookies, and win, they give you your stake back together with your winnings. It's the same on bf, but subtracting the "1" makes it much easier to seperate your stake from your profit. If I can get used to it, anyone can.

homah_7ft

I have to say I prefer the decimal system too. Back on topic I always back and never lay. I don't know why. Maybe I'm just too stuck in my ways.

dundandy

lay betting, like anything else in life, is easy when you know how. I think your confusion is due to the odds being low. Let me try to explain my way.

If you back £10 at 10/1 you would get £100 return plus your stake (£10) If the bet won

If you lay (a horse say) £10 at 10/1 your bet would return £10 if the horse lost. If the horse wins the race (and therefore your bet loses) you would have to pay out £100!
You can see that laying can be risky if you don't know what you are up to!

The decimal odds system is in all honesty better than fractional odds - especially at low odds. Unfortunatly we have been brought up on fractional odds and are like old dogs - we are sometimes slow to cotton on to new tricks.:(


I can recommend an excellent introduction to lay betting (and fractional odds and betfair) called The Bookmakers Bet by Ted Ball. It is really a complete laying system aimed at finding wrongly priced favourites in horse racing and then laying them but the introductions would be applicable to football too if that is your interest.

The book can be downloaded from www.the-bookmakers-bet.com last time I checked Ted was giving the books out on a read before you buy deal. Even if that offer has expired it is still worth the read.

Bateman

I think I might lay Palermo later tonight. 1.7 looks short and they are a team in decline IMO. Maybe a lot of their recent poor results have come in competitions they clearly didn't care about (Coppa Italia and UEFA Cup), but I just don't think it's healthy for a team to try to turn it on and off like a tap.