Peta idiots want veggie cats and dogs!

Saruman

http://www.goveg.com/feat/pledge2bveg/


Heard this on the radio today!! They want cat and dog owners to take their pets off meat and on to veg!! OR even vegan!!!
WTF? They are animals.. they are carnivores.. hell cats cant live off veg, they have to have meat according to vets!!

The URL posted was the only thing i noticed though it does not seem to refer to animals other than the "i want my firends to go veg" link.

on a side note.. i somehow clicked a link that took me to http://www.meat.org/
Jaysus.. some hardcore video there that might make people go veg.

layke

I can't see anything thats specifically says animals to go veg. There is a picture of a cat on the pledge your friends bit but thats all.

Edit :: I want a kebab.

spurious

My vet put my poor old dog Sam (aka Helen Keller - deaf and blind) on a mainly veggie diet years ago.
Didn't do him a bit of harm. He's 15 next month - probably his last Santy this year....sniff...

eth0_

layke wrote:

I can't see anything thats specifically says animals to go veg. There is a picture of a cat on the pledge your friends bit but thats all.

Apparently some pet food companies use animal testing. So I can understand PETA wanting a boycott of those companies.

But turning your pets vegetarian? That is CRUEL and unnatural.

PETA aren't too far removed from those animal liberation nuts who use terrorist tactics to further their 'cause', imo.

Saruman

Dogs i think can get away with it. However cats according to vets cant.... any vets on boards who know?
Oh do not watch that meat video if you want to stay in a happy mood... left me depressed.

joejoem

Has Jordan actually made it to the head of PETA?

eth0_

spurious wrote:

My vet put my poor old dog Sam (aka Helen Keller - deaf and blind) on a mainly veggie diet years ago...

For good reason, i'm sure. Maybe his digestive system was in a bad way and couldn't digest meat anymore.

eth0_

joejoem wrote:

Has Jordan actually made it to the head of PETA?

You're thinking of Jodie Marsh. Jordan being 1,000,000 times smarter than that washed up old tart.

Jotter

My cats eat fortified dry food mostly bec wet food makes them sick but I have come across food for cats thats say chicken flavour and has peas and carrotts in it!! Like a little sunday dinner!! weird!

RandomOne

I'm trying to find an article where it explains why cats can't survive on a veggie diet but dogs can. (Still searching) Something to do with chemcials/nutrients in fur and feather (literally, the fur and feather) that cats need. Unless a food manufacturer can adequately replace these synthetically, they have no hope of getting veggie cat owners to switch.

Edit: Found link http://www.vegsoc.org/info/catfood.html

nando

Dogs can survive on a vegetarian diet if it carefully designed which, however, is extremely difficult to achieve at home. There are commercial brands available.

Cats CAN NOT survive on a vegetarian diet as they are unable to synthesise certain amino acids themselves and MUST consume these in their daily diet. It is extremely dangerous to place a cat on a vegetarian diet and will definitely result in serious medical problems.

Tar.Aldarion

Dogs can live fine on a vegetarian diet with no suppplements.

Cats cannot synthesize several nutrients they need, taurine, vitamin A (cats cannot convert the pro-vitamin A that is abundant in plants to vitamin A proper) and to certain fatty acids. The absence of taurine causes the cat's retina to slowly degenerate, causing eye problems and (eventually) irreversible blindness. This is called CRD.
You have to give cats supplements in their food to make them vegetarian, but it is not a hard thing.

joejoem

eth0_ wrote:

You're thinking of Jodie Marsh. Jordan being 1,000,000 times smarter than that washed up old tart.

I like Jodie Marsh, she makes my pants feel tight.

grimloch

If I took my dog off his precious meat, he'd turn feral overnight and give me the biting of a lifetime.

Tabitharose

here's the peta link

http://www.peta.org.uk/feat/vegcatdog.asp


I'm a veggie but would under no circumstances attempt to change my pet's diets to veggie :rolleyes:

BeerWolf

I'm Pro-Animal, but PETA's just a bunch of loonies.

metaoblivia

That's ridiculous. I have two cats and feeding them a vegetarian diet wouldn't benefit them. If PETA is so animal conscious, then they need to accept animals for what they are.

RandomOne

PETA aren't suggesting the pets go veggie, they're just using a picture of a cat on their marketing. Still, enough people will read it as getting their pets to go veggie!

grimloch

RandomOne wrote:

PETA aren't suggesting the pets go veggie, they're just using a picture of a cat on their marketing. Still, enough people will read it as getting their pets to go veggie!

Yes they are, did you read the article that Tabitharose posted? This sentence is particular:

If you are concerned about the health of your animal companion and about the cruelty of the meat industry, now is the time to stop buying meat-based commercial pet food.

They then go on to describe all sorts of vegetarian options. They don't even discuss the possibility of feeding your dog meat that doesn't come from a tin.

They're definately suggesting it.

Our man in Havana

Cats are obligate carnivores - they need MEAT to thrive & live a healthy life. I have heard of Vegan owners who have turned their cats veggie! & apparently the only thing you need to worry about is a problem with crystals in the urine tract that need vet treatment & cause the cat LOTS OF PAIN! but other than this they are "apparently" healthy!!!!!

I have 10 cats & 1 kitten & they all live on meat! Just the way nature intended.

DaBreno

It might be worth a little experiment : Suppose we put a load of PETA heads on a plane, no food or radio, and crash it in the Andes killing the pilots. What do you suppose they would do for grub....?

Tar.Aldarion

Bond-007 wrote:

Cats are obligate carnivores - they need MEAT to thrive & live a healthy life.

No, I posted why they do not.

I have heard of Vegan owners who have turned their cats veggie! & apparently the only thing you need to worry about is a problem with crystals in the urine tract that need vet treatment & cause the cat LOTS OF PAIN! but other than this they are "apparently" healthy!!!!!

They are not being cared for properly then, so?

It might be worth a little experiment : Suppose we put a load of PETA heads on a plane, no food or radio, and crash it in the Andes killing the pilots. What do you suppose they would do for grub....?

I suppose their position is that they can eat meat when they need too, which people certainly don't need to in todays society where meat is basically just a pleasure as people do not need it to be healthy.

I also suspect that film may exist.

peasant

Trying to turn a cat veggie or vegan is the most perverted form of "animal love" imaginable.

Some people take it into their minds that they are doing the animal kingdom a great favour by turning vegetarian or vegan.

While this is probably true in regards to the parts of the animal kingdom that are part of the human food chain, trying to do it to a cat (who is by design a carnivore) is just despicable.

Because it means transferring human "values" onto a defensless animal, that is in ones care and responsibility with total disregard for that animals needs and circumstances. Total and utter disrespect for the one animal the vegetarin/vegan is directly responsible for while he/she is busy "caring" for the rest of all creatures.

Get a cop on ...a cat always was, is and always will be a carnivore ..no matter how many supplements you stuff down its throat with its tofu ...

Do to yourself what you will, preach to the world if you must, but leave the poor cat out of it.

Demonique

eth0_ wrote:

Apparently some pet food companies use animal testing. So I can understand PETA wanting a boycott of those companies.

But turning your pets vegetarian? That is CRUEL and unnatural.

PETA aren't too far removed from those animal liberation nuts who use terrorist tactics to further their 'cause', imo.

PETA are affliated with the Animal Liberation Front who have been known to use terrorist tactics

As someone said on another forum, I wouldn't sell my last turd to PETA

tallus

peasant wrote:

Trying to turn a cat veggie or vegan is the most perverted form of "animal love" imaginable.

Some people take it into their minds that they are doing the animal kingdom a great favour by turning vegetarian or vegan.

While this is probably true in regards to the parts of the animal kingdom that are part of the human food chain, trying to do it to a cat (who is by design a carnivore) is just despicable.

Because it means transferring human "values" onto a defensless animal, that is in ones care and responsibility with total disregard for that animals needs and circumstances. Total and utter disrespect for the one animal the vegetarin/vegan is directly responsible for while he/she is busy "caring" for the rest of all creatures.

Get a cop on ...a cat always was, is and always will be a carnivore ..no matter how many supplements you stuff down its throat with its tofu ...

Do to yourself what you will, preach to the world if you must, but leave the poor cat out of it.

I totally agree with this post. My cat would find his meat elsewhere if I didn't feed it to him.

Schlemm

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Dogs can live fine on a vegetarian diet with no suppplements.

Cats cannot synthesize several nutrients they need, taurine, vitamin A (cats cannot convert the pro-vitamin A that is abundant in plants to vitamin A proper) and to certain fatty acids. The absence of taurine causes the cat's retina to slowly degenerate, causing eye problems and (eventually) irreversible blindness. This is called CRD.
You have to give cats supplements in their food to make them vegetarian, but it is not a hard thing.

Supplements are very often not as available to the body to use as the nutrients in their natural form. A natural form of taurine is much better to the animal than an artificial source. In addition to CRD, taurine deficiency can cause heart problems, reproductive failure and developmental abnormalities. A balanced diet is better than a supplement any day.
They also need arachadonic acid (they can't synthiesize it from linoleic) and linoleic acid.
Not only do they need a huge amount of protein, but the amino acid profile of that protein is very important: they have a dependence on arginine, due to the demands on the urea cycle, and animal proteins are generally better in their amino acid profile, digestibility and arginine content.
Their niacin requirement is 4x higher than dogs, and animal tissue is higher in niacin. Cats cannot synthesize niacin from tryptophan.
With regards starch and other carbohydrates, cats tolerate carbs rather than utilizing them and can tolerate a level of starch of 4 grams per kilogram body weight, which is not a lot of starch when you consider that the ave. cat weighs 4kg. Their enzymes are simply not geared up to use carbs efficiently, and they rely on a process called gluconeogenesis to maintain blood sugar by creating carbs from non-carb sources. Their enzymes and gene expression have changed over the course of their evolution and they are basically designed to eat meat.
Potassium deficiency is also seen in vegetarian cats.
(About the urinary caliculi, this condition occurs when cats are fed too much magnesium, and is often seen when cats are fed too much fish.)
And while people say that it is possible to form a vegetarian diet for a cat, it would be difficult not only for the owners to manage, but for the cat to be healthy. Anthrophomorphism isn't always the best principle when deciding what is best for our pets.

Nala

I read somewhere once that if you take meat out of a cat's diet the cat will be dead within a month.

My cat would never speak to me again if she didn't get her (big) bowl of Go-Cat every morning... I feed her before I feed myself!!!

peasant

Schlemm wrote:

Anthrophomorphism isn't always the best principle when deciding what is best for our pets.

Can we have that as a sticky on top of the whole forum, please???

stovelid

eth0_ wrote:

You're thinking of Jodie Marsh. Jordan being 1,000,000 times smarter than that washed up old tart.

They're both dogs so it's a valid move.

Rigsby

Can anyonetell me is "Peata" the Irish equivalent of "Peta" ? A friend was thinking of joining because they do a lot of good work with bringing approved pets to visit people in nursing homes. If they were associated with "Peta" and their idea of dog/cat vegetarians I'm sure she would have nothing to do with them.

fits

nope.. completely different organisation.
peata use pets for therapy
peta is a militant animal liberation organisation....

Rigsby

fits wrote:

nope.. completely different organisation.
peata use pets for therapy
peta is a militant animal liberation organisation....

Thanks Fits,

That's a relief !!

trilo

Did anyone look at that link.. http://www.meat.org

The video was shocking, i could'nt watch it all.

I usually buy irish meat, i just hope that the meat i buy, the animals do not suffer that kind of cruelty.
I'm just thinking, the meat i buy from Aldi or Lidl is foreign, I know some of the lamb comes from New Zealand. It's made me think twice now about buying meat from their.

Let's just hope that animals are not treated in anyway like that here in Ireland.

Schlemm

trilo wrote:

Did anyone look at that link.. http://www.meat.org

The video was shocking, i could'nt watch it all.

I usually buy irish meat, i just hope that the meat i buy, the animals do not suffer that kind of cruelty.
I'm just thinking, the meat i buy from Aldi or Lidl is foreign, I know some of the lamb comes from New Zealand. It's made me think twice now about buying meat from their.

Let's just hope that animals are not treated in anyway like that here in Ireland.

I've done work on dairy, beef, sheep and pig farms in Ireland and I have never seen animals being treated as bad as they are in some of those peta-esque videos. A lot of the movies on the internet are of farms in the USA, etc. and the practices in agriculture are quite different to the practices in Ireland. A lot of those movies will also show a lot of extreme situations which tend to occur a lot less in reality than the videos make out.
In Ireland, most farmers will try and turn their cattle and sheep out to grass as often as possible, because grass is cheap. Plus it's better for the animals and they tend to thrive better on grass too.
The average yield of a dairy cow in Ireland is about half that of a dairy cow in the USA, and even though they can suffer some of the metabolic problems that affect dairy cows, they do not burn out as quick as some of the USA herds. They are turned out to grass in the warmer months usually, wheras some USA herds are kept in cubicle housing all year round.
The EU are also quite strict on the use of hormones and growth promoters, etc. when compared with some other countries. They have banned many of the substances that used to be used in the past to improve fertility or increase milk yield, eg, growth hormone is banned in the EU.
Chicken and pigs are still an area of concern, however, and sows are still kept in farrowing crates and dry sow stalls. They can sit and stand and walk about a pace back and forth, and this is how breeding sows are kept throughout life. Battery hens in cages also have a poor welfare. The EU is bringing in new legislation for group housing sows and providing 'enriched' cages for battery hens, but personally I do not think these measures will go far enough to make signifigant changes to welfare, and will be a huge burden on farmers in terms of cost and labour.
However, free range pork and chicken is available and this is worth looking out for in the shops. There are also loopholes in labelling legislation that allow producers to label meat as Irish if it has been processed in Ireland (eg, into burgers or nuggets or whatever). So make sure that you're buying Irish. Buycotts work better than boycotts when promoting good animal welfare in farming,...just look at what happened in organic farming, and freedom foods in the UK.

fits

Good post there Schlemm. Irelands grass based agriculture for dairy, beef and sheep herds is actually pretty good from a welfare point of view.
Personally, I buy normal Irish beef and lamb... but make the extra effort to get free range chicken and pork.... battery farmed chicken is disgusting to my palate. There's also a guy nearby who rears saddle backed pigs and their meat is so much superior to 'supermarket' pork.

Demonique

PETA - People Eating Tasty Animals

Nala

Believe me, I am fully in favour of some of PETA's beliefs- their anti-fur campaign is spot on. Killing animals for fashion is ridiculous. But as far as I am concerned, cats have pointy teeth for a reason- because they are MEAT eaters. I don't care what PETA say, it would be just as cruel for me to deny my cat her natural diet as it is to deny all the cows, pigs etc their natural lives or whatever.

Besides, as I've said earlier, she'd never speak to me again!!!

Wibbs

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

No, I posted why they do not.

Not according to Schlemm and other sources I've read.

They are not being cared for properly then, so?

So in an ideal situation where the cat(or dog) is kept on a veggie diet very strict in it's sources of protein and amino acids etc then they may be alright. Given the diet of many animals on a meat(canned) diet isn't exactly up to scratch it stands to reason that a mad veggie diet is likely to cause serious harm under less than ideal circumstances.

As it is many of the pet foods contain way too much sugar. In the wild dogs/wolves are primarily meat eaters and can live longer healthier lives than their captive cousins. While they do ingest more veggie matter than you may suppose, they thrive on a balanced diet that contains animal protein. In wild cats the animal protein angel is even more pronounced.

You know that old chestnut about not giving a dog meat as it will make them vicious? That was an advertising notion created by the dog food industry in the US many moons ago. An obvious one is wild animals don't require dental help from vets as dental caries is very rare. Domestic dogs and cats suffer from it far more than before. Feeding them grains is even more bizarre.

You take two pups from the same litter and I'll feed one meat, bones offal etc with some veg thrown in. You feed one on a pure veggie diet and the comparisons in skeletal development and general health will be plain to see in a couple of years.

I suppose their position is that they can eat meat when they need too, which people certainly don't need to in todays society where meat is basically just a pleasure as people do not need it to be healthy.

Another debate for another time, but while most eat far too much animal protein and of the wrong sort, many many sources would consider that statement in error. Eggs and dairy types ok, but pure vegans?

Frankly this stuff is laughable. It's bad enough when the militant veggie brigade insist that humans(especially children) don't need some form of animal protein to thrive, not just survive. The usual comparisons between us and pure carnivores is regularly trotted out. Now when dealing with those self same carnivores the blinkers go on and they suggest turning them veggie too. It's ridiculous.

In an ideal world idiots like PETA would get eaten. Now where can I source a famished Siberian tiger and the local PETA branch - and some padlocks for the door. Shouldn't take long.....:D