Cork Ball swapping

Evil_Bilbo

Sorry if this has been posted before

anyone see all that sliotar swapping that the cork team are doing these days? Whats the crack with that? They have their own (different) sliotars that they're used to playing with?

Every puck out or other chance they have they seem to switch the ball. Its the players (on the opposition) that spot this, not the officials. I remember Limerick horsing a few balls into the crowd on saturday (after they went out of play) just to get an ordinary sliotar back in play.

and for that cork penalty, the rock was coming up with a new sliotar (obviously to go for a goal), but the limerick players stopped him (quite forcibly, but he went down like a soccer player) - when he realised he wasnt going to be allowed to take the penalty with the new ball, he just walked back - and then deane pointed it.

I personally think this should be stopped as it gives an already amazing team an unfair advantage. Should bookings be handed out for this kind of behaviour? I noticed their hurleys are a little bit different to anyone elses too (maybe fair enough - though a "standard" hurley should be used by all) - but the whole ball swapping has really made me dislike this cork team altogether.

monosharp

Evil_Bilbo wrote:

Sorry if this has been posted before

anyone see all that sliotar swapping that the cork team are doing these days? Whats the crack with that? They have their own (different) sliotars that they're used to playing with?

Every puck out or other chance they have they seem to switch the ball. Its the players (on the opposition) that spot this, not the officials. I remember Limerick horsing a few balls into the crowd on saturday (after they went out of play) just to get an ordinary sliotar back in play.

and for that cork penalty, the rock was coming up with a new sliotar (obviously to go for a goal), but the limerick players stopped him (quite forcibly, but he went down like a soccer player) - when he realised he wasnt going to be allowed to take the penalty with the new ball, he just walked back - and then deane pointed it.

I personally think this should be stopped as it gives an already amazing team an unfair advantage. Should bookings be handed out for this kind of behaviour? I noticed their hurleys are a little bit different to anyone elses too (maybe fair enough - though a "standard" hurley should be used by all) - but the whole ball swapping has really made me dislike this cork team altogether.

ergh .. just firstly about the hurleys.

Just like sliotars there are max and min requirements for hurleys, i.e > such and such a width, bas no bigger then X etc etc. That kind of thing.

The Cork hurls are mostly made by Ben and Jerry O'Connor (The cork players) and are perfectly fine by the standards. I have one myself.

The same goes for sliotars, there are i think 7 or 8 different kind of sliotar approved for use by croke park. Cork and Clare prefer the "Cummins" variant while most other counties prefer the O'Neills ball.

Now the venue, fixture is supposed to provide the game ball (Almost always O'Neills) and thats supposed to be the only ball on the field of play. But this is a directive, not a rule. i.e > There is no penalty/rule against someone taking their own sliotar onto the field.

Then again, i have used the cummins ball and Clare use the cummins ball and i have never seen an o'neills or a cummins ball bounce like the Cork one does. I think someone should get their hands on a Cork sliotar and dissect the ****er.

DUB

Yea as far as i know the 'Cummins All star' is within the set parameters so I can't see why people have a problem with them swapping it. Unless of course they've their own 'special' ones. Thought it was hilarious to see yerman O'Sullivan making his way up the pitch to take the peno with a sliotar down the back of his shorts, ha ha ha ... Noticed that one of the all stars was still in use in the following game ... The only difference I've noticed is the All star is less bouncy then an O'Neills, it's a nice ball.

oh, and the o'connor hurleys are awful lookin yokes arent they, the boss seems to be more centered then the usual off to one side toe, i wonder if this lends any advantage.

thirdmantackle

Eoin Kelly of Tipp had a funny looking hurley yesterday, noticed it when he was standing to take frees (where he uses an illegal lifting technique by the way)

the shaft of the hurl isn't straight but curves from the handle end towards the bos - never seen that before

monosharp

DUB wrote:

Yea as far as i know the 'Cummins All star' is within the set parameters so I can't see why people have a problem with them swapping it.

It is within the parameters and thats not peoples problem with it. Its the fact that the venue/stadium sets which ball to use and no other ball is supposed to be allowed on the pitch. Its a directive from a meeting back in 2004 but theres no "penalty" against swapping the ball. I'm not sure of the difference between a directive and a rule but there you go.

p.s > The cummins ball is far far bouncier then the o'neills. Not the other way round.

oh, and the o'connor hurleys are awful lookin yokes arent they, the boss seems to be more centered then the usual off to one side toe, i wonder if this lends any advantage.

Thats irrelevant, i'd safely say that any county team has players using tens of various hurls by different makers. A hurl is a very personal preference and as long as its within the standards then theres no problem at all with it. Its nothing the same like the situation with the sliotars.

Its the same as footballers wearing different brands of boots.

And by the way the o'connor hurls are actually grand, i got a few off them before and my only problem was they are very light but that was my own fault, i should have asked for a heavy bás.

monosharp

thirdmantackle wrote:

Eoin Kelly of Tipp had a funny looking hurley yesterday, noticed it when he was standing to take frees (where he uses an illegal lifting technique by the way)

the shaft of the hurl isn't straight but curves from the handle end towards the bos - never seen that before

Firstly he does not foul the ball. Here are the rules governing taking a free.

2.5 For all free pucks, including penalties, the ball may be struck with the hurley in either of two ways:

(a) Lift the ball with the hurley at the first attempt and strike it with the hurley.

(b) Strike the ball on the ground.

There is no time limit set on (a) and referees only pull on it when a constant upward motion is not maintained.

Secondly, i don't know where this "kelly fouls the ball because ..." came from because DJ did it all the time as well as loads of hurlers today. DJ was infamous for this especially taking penalties, (he did the time on the hurl + the christy ring foot forward) Kelly seems to get the red light for it because of his high profile and yet i'd safely say most inter-county free takers do the exact same.

There is nothing Kelly does thats any different from anyone else, he takes a little more time over the ball before lifting then most. The slightly longer lift is something done by loads of inter-county hurlers and as already mentioned Kelly did not invent it.

the shaft of the hurl isn't straight but curves from the handle end towards the bos - never seen that before

Either i don't understand what your saying or you've never seen a hurley in your life that wasn't bought from elverys.

DUB

monosharp wrote:

p.s > The cummins ball is far far bouncier then the o'neills. Not the other way round.

Not the one I have out the back garden isnt, its a harder less bouncy ball to the O'Neills balls I have.

Keano

thirdmantackle wrote:

Eoin Kelly of Tipp had a funny looking hurley yesterday, noticed it when he was standing to take frees (where he uses an illegal lifting technique by the way)

the shaft of the hurl isn't straight but curves from the handle end towards the bos - never seen that before

good point about the free taking, its a very common theme though these days. DJ Carey did the same for years, Henry Sheflin does the same. Little things creeping into hurling that need to be sorted.

Reading in the paper yesterday that the ball Cork use is different and some clown from the gaa said that the ball is not an official ball but that other types of ball are being used!

monosharp

Keano A Legend wrote:

good point about the free taking, its a very common theme though these days. DJ Carey did the same for years, Henry Sheflin does the same. Little things creeping into hurling that need to be sorted.

And yet again a comment without any reasoning.

What exactly is wrong with that free taking ? Its not breaking the rules in any way and the only difference between it and "normal" free taking is that the sliotar is kept on the bás for a half a second longer if even that.

What is the problem ?

A much more serious "thing" creeping into the game is the Cork short puck outs which don't go beyond the 21. This is clearly against the rules yet they constantly get away with it.

Reading in the paper yesterday that the ball Cork use is different and some clown from the gaa said that the ball is not an official ball but that other types of ball are being used!

Whatever about the poster above saying that cummins balls are not as "bouncy" as o'neills. They ARE. He said they are "harder", that has nothing to do with how bouncy they are. In fact a harder ball would probably bounce more then a softer ball.

Anyways ...

I have used the cummins ball and Clare use it all the time but i have never seen a cummins ball bounce like corks one in the munster final over Brendan cummins cross bar. That was reminiscent of the "rubber" ball back in '03.

DUB

I said it was harder less bouncy. I thought that was a fair enough description, if you drop a Cummins onto a concrete surface it'll bounce less high then an O'Neills, unless I've got a dodgey one or a different one to what the Cork team are sneaking on.

5 Times

Kelly definitely fouled the ball. Whether anyone else used to get away with it is irrelevant. Goalkeepers often get away with coming off their line for penalties aswell. Dosn't make it right. Lifting the ball should be one movement. Resting the ball on the hurl for half a second (long time in a hurling match) allows the player to get a couple of yards closer to the goals and the slower lift enables the player to get a better backwsing and hence more power into the shot. It was a foul. Fact

I feel sorry for Kelly. He dragged Tipp along this year singlehandedly. He was clearly upset on the field against waterford. He deserves to be in a good team like Kilkenny, Clare, Waterford or Cork. Tipperary hurling is gone to the dogs. Redser is the new hurling idol. Where once decent youths admired decent hurlers like Pat Fox and Nicky English you now have a huge ruffian element of young Tipperary Redzer supporters. It has to be said that barring the 89, 91 team Tipperary have been bad for a long time. In fact they have only played in 5 All Ireland Finals sice 1972 - the same as Limerick.

As for switching the ball and all that fiasco. Cork are trying to use a ball which has not officially been approved for the matchday fixture by the relevant authorities. They can make hurleys - who says they cant make slioters. Who knows what the secret ball O'sullivan o'sullivan had was made of. Its a joke. I can just imagine the ball being kicked out of play in the a world cup qiarter final. Some dodgy german kicks in a totally different kind of ball for ballack to take a penalty. Do you think he would get away with that - I think not. It was good to see that poser O'sullivan knocked on his ar*e by the limerick boys.

The last three games I attended were the leinster football and hurling finals and I was in thurles last saturday. Clearly with 82000 people present for dublin v offaly clash the GAA resources must be considerable. Yet, there practices and decisions are constantly appalling. The stewards were helpless against the dubs who invaded the field while the game was still on. There were streakers on both leinster final days and again the stewards and gardai thought it was great craic. There were several incursions onto the field by Dublin youths, for want of a batter expression, several times during thegame. One of the o'connors was attacked by a limerick lunitic after half time in thurles on saturday. Two fights broke out in the crowd near me at the wexford kilkenny match at croker and the stewards didnt take a blind bit of notice even though one of the fight went to serious fistycuffs. Matty Forde stood on someone haed, John carroll used his hurley as a dangerous weapon after losing one of his teeth and the satndard of refereeing in general is appalling. Not to mention the umpires who usually just guess - who could blame them tthey are all >85 years of age and are not appointed on merit.

The GAA are a joke. The Hurling Championship set-up is laughably bad. There are examples of proper championships being run in nearly every country in the world in various sports but only our own special brand of monkeys in the gaa could invent the overcomplicated nonsense we are rendered with. The leinster and munster championships have been completely devalued. Its time to get real. No wonder the popularity of hurling has hit crisis point - the whole thing is a laughing stock.

Keano

monosharp wrote:

And yet again a comment without any reasoning.

What exactly is wrong with that free taking ? Its not breaking the rules in any way and the only difference between it and "normal" free taking is that the sliotar is kept on the bás for a half a second longer if even that.

What is the problem ?

A much more serious "thing" creeping into the game is the Cork short puck outs which don't go beyond the 21. This is clearly against the rules yet they constantly get away with it.



Whatever about the poster above saying that cummins balls are not as "bouncy" as o'neills. They ARE. He said they are "harder", that has nothing to do with how bouncy they are. In fact a harder ball would probably bounce more then a softer ball.

Anyways ...

I have used the cummins ball and Clare use it all the time but i have never seen a cummins ball bounce like corks one in the munster final over Brendan cummins cross bar. That was reminiscent of the "rubber" ball back in '03.

They are breaking the rules keeping the ball on the hurley that bit longer but the rubber ball is the problem... Needs to be sorted ASAP!!

DUB

5 Times wrote:

The GAA are a joke. The Hurling Championship set-up is laughably bad. There are examples of proper championships being run in nearly every country in the world in various sports but only our own special brand of monkeys in the gaa could invent the overcomplicated nonsense we are rendered with. The leinster and munster championships have been completely devalued. Its time to get real. No wonder the popularity of hurling has hit crisis point - the whole thing is a laughing stock.

I agree, it's a mess, how can you keep the better team apart till the last couple of rounds of a comeptition? It's got to be the worst competiton structure in any sport I'm aware of. It's testament to the sport that it remains as popular as it is! It's popularity isnt really in crisis, it's just diping after the massively competitive 90s.

monosharp

5 Times wrote:

Kelly definitely fouled the ball. Whether anyone else used to get away with it is irrelevant. Goalkeepers often get away with coming off their line for penalties aswell. Dosn't make it right. Lifting the ball should be one movement. Resting the ball on the hurl for half a second (long time in a hurling match) allows the player to get a couple of yards closer to the goals and the slower lift enables the player to get a better backwsing and hence more power into the shot. It was a foul. Fact

No its NOT a fact.

There's nothing in the rules that defines the lift to say that a player can't balance the ball for as long as he wants.

2.5 For all free pucks, including penalties, the ball may be struck with the hurley in either of two ways:

(a) Lift the ball with the hurley at the first attempt and strike it with the hurley.

(b) Strike the ball on the ground.

There is nothing in the rules to say a free taker cannot "slowly" lift the ball, where did that come from ? Should everyone have to lift the ball at a certain speed ? Will we get a gardaí speed camera in ?

And what are you on about when you say "because other people got away with it". Other people GET away with it. I'd be very surprised if there was a single team in Ireland where there wasn't a player who doesn't strike this way.

And he nor anyone else who does it, doesn't move a couple of yards closer. Have you EVER seen a penalty taken in hurling ? Have you EVER seen a free being taken ? They ALL move closer.

This cannot be a foul because its a FACT that there is NOTHING in the rulebook against it. The only possible rule that can be applied to this sort of free taking is time wasting.

monosharp

Keano A Legend wrote:

They are breaking the rules keeping the ball on the hurley that bit longer but the rubber ball is the problem... Needs to be sorted ASAP!!

HOW is it breaking the rules ??????

Here are the rules for taking a free. Where does it say "Can't keep the sliotar on the hurl for longer then x" ???

2.5 For all free pucks, including penalties, the ball may be struck with the hurley in either of two ways:

(a) Lift the ball with the hurley at the first attempt and strike it with the hurley. <-- Where does it say what Kelly and i'd say the majority of hurlers in this country is against the rules ??

(b) Strike the ball on the ground.

Keano

Where in the rules does it say that a player can hold the ball on his hurley for a couple of seconds??
The rule as you stated says the player must "(a) Lift the ball with the hurley at the first attempt and strike it with the hurley."

Yes it does not say it is illegal nor does say it is legal.

monosharp

Keano A Legend wrote:

Where in the rules does it say that a player can hold the ball on his hurley for a couple of seconds??
The rule as you stated says the player must "(a) Lift the ball with the hurley at the first attempt and strike it with the hurley."

Yes it does not say it is illegal nor does say it is legal.

Kelly does NOT even hold the ball on the hurley for a "couple" of seconds. Watch his and a lot of other players free taking, the ball is constantly being risen. It is one smooth upward movement from the ground until it leaves the bás and he strikes it.

What is wrong with that ?

Keano

Not one clean action its not. I have watched him many times and was at the game on Sunday. He clearly lifted the ball and kept it on his hurley for a couple of seconds and then stuck in the net! All I am saying is that he does do it and I have seen a lot others do it. It happens and lets just get on with it!

monosharp

Croke Park’s Head of Games Pat Daly believes that any team attempting to introduce unofficial sliothars during games should be punished.

Cork full back Diarmuid O’Sullivan appeared to have a new sliothar – believed to be a Cummins All-Star ball – tucked into the waistband of his shorts as he came forward to take a penalty during Saturday’s All-Ireland quarter-final against Limerick. The change of ball didn’t go unnoticed to the Limerick players who tried to stop him.

In the end, Joe Deane took the penalty and put it over the bar, but it wasn’t the first time Cork have been accused of switching sliothars. It’s believed that the All-Star sliothar can travel up to 30 metres further than standard balls.

“This is gamesmanship and it’s not tolerable,” Daly said.

“There’s only one team engaging in this type of codology and that’s Cork. We didn’t see it in Croke Park with any of the four teams.

“All match balls are supplied by the committee in charge (GAC). The notion of bringing a bag of balls into the goals is totally absurd and contrary to the principles of fair play.
“There are rules with regards to bringing the Association into disrepute and they could be used to cover this.

“There are no specific rules to deal with this because it was never anticipated that anyone would engage in this sort of behaviour.”

Replay for Limerick on the cards ? It should be!

ublinina2

2.5 For all free pucks, including penalties, the ball may be struck with the hurley in either of two ways:

(a) Lift the ball with the hurley at the first attempt and strike it with the hurley. <-- Where does it say what Kelly and i'd say the majority of hurlers in this country is against the rules ??

(b) Strike the ball on the ground.


Regarding Kellys method of taking penalties , he is actually breaking the rules / sportmanship and something needs to be done about it.

He is a class hurler and if Tipp supplied more ball to him last Sunday , they would have won. Everytime he got the ball , he either won a free or got or generated a score.

The rule does not state that it is ok for a player to balance the ball on the hurl while taking a free ( otherwise known as start of a solo).

If MONO's interpretation of the rule is true , then there is nothing to stop a hurler from balancing a ball on his hurl indefinately or soloing in one movement after jab lifting the ball and striking.

When DJ took penalties , particularly in his early years , he ran to jab lift the ball and the ball rose out in front of him about 4m further and struck it. Nothing in the rules to stop this happening and this was a great skill in itself ,which i have yet to see replicated by any player.

monosharp

ublinina2 wrote:

Regarding Kellys method of taking penalties , he is actually breaking the rules / sportmanship and something needs to be done about it.

My god, look at how other free takers take it. I'd say more people take it the same way as Kelly then don't.

The rule does not state that it is ok for a player to balance the ball on the hurl while taking a free ( otherwise known as start of a solo).

He doesn't balance it, look at any replay. It is a very slow but constant lifting motion, not once does the hurl stay level, it is constantly in an upwards motion. Perfectly legal.

looder

jaysus lads why is it only tipps eoin kelly that gets ridiculed for this???

most of the top free takers do it. is it just that because he's so good everybody wants to find a fault in his game?

monosharp

looder wrote:

jaysus lads why is it only tipps eoin kelly that gets ridiculed for this???

most of the top free takers do it. is it just that because he's so good everybody wants to find a fault in his game?

I suppose the next thing they'll be accusing him of is superhuman abilities since he doesn't need to look at the posts before he scores. Then again, hes usually facing the wrong way with 2-3 defenders after him from an impossible angle, soo ...

GreenDoor

I'm from Co Cork and I'm disgusted with the carry on of the Cork team. Cheating is what they are doing. I think they are acting like soccer players trying to con everybody. Act like hurlers Cork!