Where are new laws announced?

Random

This new driving with mobiles law that came in at midnight last night or the last ... where was it annouced?

Now, I know it was in all the papers and on TV ... but none of them seemed to class themselves as an official annoucement?

Is there a place where new laws are announced or are you just supposed to check every now and again?

focusing

That's a good question.

Iris Oifigiúil is the official journal of the State, and it lists laws as they are signed into law, but it doesn't print the entire text of the statute in question.

As far as I know, that Act was passed by the Oireachtas, but had to be commenced by the Minister for it to come into effect.

I'd have to check Irish Current Law Statutes in a good law library to tell if a commencement order had been made, but most people don't have access to that (it's €820 a year just for the updates). There's also a time lag between orders being made and the next update.

The State doesn't really help, since the official websites that should tell the citizen what is and isn't illegal are hopelessly inadequate. Acts.ie and irishstatutebook.ie only claim to cover up to 2003, and even oireachtas.ie doesn't have the commencement orders to tell you whether a particular act is in force.

There is no way a lay-person could be expected to deal with the Companies Acts, because they've been amended so many times and there isn't an official publication of them in a consolidated format.

A provision may be in the 1990 Act, but have been amended several times. There's no reasonable way to tell if an amendment has changed the provision unless you have access to a copy of Consolidated Company Legislation (€660).

Which begs the question, if there’s no way for you reasonably tell if a law exists or is in force, can you be convicted under it?

I asked for a copy of a bye-law from my local authority about parking that was affecting me. I was told that they wouldn’t send me a copy in the post. I’d have to visit their office, pay a fee and receive a photocopy of an official text. Photocopies were in local libraries, but couldn’t be removed. There’s no text online.

I think they’d have a hard time enforcing it against me in the courts.

And the State isn’t much better. Lawyers rely on the private sector, in the form of the Irish Current Law Statutes and Consolidated Company Legislation, to do what the State should be doing.

There should be a laws.gov.ie website that gives in html and pdf format an updated, consolidated text of each act as it is amended, stating which sections are commenced and which aren’t. At least some local libraries should have a hard copy. It could even have a “laws enacted or amended in the past X months” search function.

Essentially, for example, when the 1990 Act is amended, the State should publish an updated version of it, rather than asking us to check through dozens of subsequent amending acts or finding a copy of an expensive private sector publication.

We’d then have a distinct Company Law Consolidated Code, which a lay person could use and understand, and would have no excuse for breaking.

Sorry that’s so long, I just find the time-wasting involved in the current system more than a little frustrating. Please forgive the rant.

If someone has some time-saving research tools that I’ve missed, please share!

sh_o

http://www.ucc.ie/law/irlii/si/sidisprecent.php Is also a good resource that is free - it will point you in the direction of recent statutory instruments. I am not sure how up to date or how often this is done, but it is a good starting point to look and see if there has been an SI for a particular act. Normally you will then have to look for the SI and the act to see if it is relevant for your particular issue.
It certainly is not an ideal situation for legal practioners or (more importantly) the general public.

Also Iris Oifigiul contains the names of the acts that have been signed into law by the President. It is available online http://www.irisoifigiuil.ie.

dermot_sheehan

Iris Oifigiuil (official gazette) publishes when acts are signed by the president, when commencement orders are signed by the minister (some acts have a section saying this act may come into force on a day the minister may proclaim, and regulations made under the acts.

I believe in the issue of notice to the citizen of new laws, the constitution requires that the President "Promuglate" new laws, which I think is satisfied by publication in the official gazette. In the case of ministerial regulations the Statutory Instruments Act 1948 I believe requires that no one is bound by a regulation unless notice of it is published in the official gazette or 2 national newspapers.

Fact is finding out whether a law has been amended is a chore in Ireland since we don't have a concise code but rather a series of statutes and regulations that amend and repeal each other. Of particular annoyance is that regulations under the european communities act can repeal primary legislation so when checking whether a law is in force you must also check all regulations as well as statutes since the date of enactment to make sure it wasn't repealed.

Irish current law statutes annotated is handy. When not on the library searching on google with "site:irishstatutebook.ie" in the search box is handy enough.

Random

Can you tone town some of the jargon a little... I'm a bit lost sometimes when it comes to this - thanks

So basically... posting it in the Irish Independant and Ireland on Sunday suffices as a law being annouced to the people? What if you don't read these papers? The whole system seems a bit odd .. .

dermot_sheehan

ciaranfo wrote:

Can you tone town some of the jargon a little... I'm a bit lost sometimes when it comes to this - thanks

So basically... posting it in the Irish Independant and Ireland on Sunday suffices as a law being annouced to the people? What if you don't read these papers? The whole system seems a bit odd .. .

Ok,
Basically Acts passed by the Oireachtas: are normally published in official gazette, but whether they are or not does not effect their validity.

Ministerial Regulations: Are ordinarily published in official gazette, if not and the State wishes to prosecute you for disobeying them they must prove they took efforts to alert the public to them. This requirement is due to section 3 of the Statutory Instruments Act 1947 http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA44Y1947S3.html

Some Acts of the Oireachtas however come into force the day the President signs it, some come into force when the minister signs an order. An example of the later is the Criminal Justice Act 1994 which in s.2 says it shall come into force on a day that the minister appoints. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA15Y1994S2.html



For the Road Traffic Act 2006, according to section 23 of it, it comes into force on a day the minister directs by order. To know if this came into effect there would be two notices in the official gazette. One stating that the law had been signed by the President, another (which could be several weeks or months later) stating that an order had been signed by the minister bring the act into effect.


Hope this clears things up

focusing

The more I think about this, the more crazy it seems.

When lawyers find it nearly impossible to keep track of amendments, commencements, regulations and statutory instruments, how on Earth can Joe Public be expected to know what the law in a particular area is??

Even the most careful citizen could find themselves breaking the European Communities (Potato Ring Rot) (Amendment) Regulations 2006.

We're all net-literate and interested in the law. Can any of us find a copy of these regulations online?

jhegarty

Has anyone ever used "I don't know the law changed" as a successful defence ?

sh_o

sorry for the jargon but: Ignorantia juris non excusat (Ignorance of the law is no defense).

The courts are fairly strict on this - however, if the law was invalidly created, or beyond the authority of the person creating it (ultra vires) then that is a different matter

Random

Ignorantia juris non excusat (Ignorance of the law is no defense).

It should be if no one can provide me with a book stating "the definite laws of the land".

focusing

I think that you could get together a defence of:

"there's no way a reasonable, law-abiding non-lawyer would have had any realistic chance of knowing that's illegal"