We are going for.....

mjffey

the full Monthy! Yes.

Electricity +30%, Gas +35%, water charges are comming.:mad:

I don't know how we are going to do it, but next year we'll have a go. Solarpanels, windturbines, woodpellets and rainwater harvesting. The whole lot.
I dont'care about pay back time. It's principles now!
As long as they're businesses with monopoly position everything is better then paying their exorbitant salaries and pensions.

What was it in the Godfather?????????? Go to the matresses? Yes we will. Who follows?:D

davidoco

mjffey wrote:

Solarpanels, windturbines, woodpellets and rainwater harvesting. The whole lot.
I dont'care about pay back time. It's principles now!
As long as they're businesses with monopoly position everything is better then paying their exorbitant salaries and pensions.

Anyone with a bit of sense getting a few quid on the SSIA should be looking into splashing out on one of the above.

I've just started to experience FREE hot water from solar and just the feel good factor has been worth every cent.

For those people getting 20k on the SSIA 25% of that was free money so 5k to a solar water setup would be a great idea.

bk

Unfortunately non of those are practical for the majority of us living in the cities (apartments, etc.)

<put on flame retardant suit>
So the only true solution is Nuclear
</put on flame retardant suit>

Uuuh Patsy

davidoco wrote:

Anyone with a bit of sense getting a few quid on the SSIA should be looking into splashing out on one of the above.

I've just started to experience FREE hot water from solar and just the feel good factor has been worth every cent.

For those people getting 20k on the SSIA 25% of that was free money so 5k to a solar water setup would be a great idea.

Dacvidoco, Would be very interested in hearing about your solar setup. What, Who, How Much? Am serioulsly looking into similar but need some experienced advice.

davidoco

Uuuh Patsy wrote:

What, Who, How Much?

It’s a full Viesmann system consisting of 2 Vitosol 100 solar panels with Vitosolic controller, 200 litre Viesmann steel cylinder and a triple pass Vitorond 100 oil boiler.

We had a German company supply the system and come over and install it. It cost over 10,000 euro but that included loads of plumbing work by the two german guys so it would be difficult to gauge the actual cost of the solar.

I’ll get some pictures sorted and posted as it looks very impressive in the utility room.

Experience after two months - just loads of hot water and I mean loads of hot water but we have been having very good weather down in the south east.

davidoco

bk wrote:

Unfortunately non of those are practical for the majority of us living in the cities (apartments, etc.)
QUOTE]

Without knowing the exact figures I guess most of us live in 3 bed semis or detached houses so solar and water harvesting should be a viable option.

bk

davidoco wrote:

Without knowing the exact figures I guess most of us live in 3 bed semis or detached houses so solar and water harvesting should be a viable option.

The majority of new housing in the main population centres is apartments, even homes in new developments have strict restrictions on what can be put on the roof (satellite dishes, etc.).

The main problem is €10,000!!! and bringing over guys from Germany!!

I'm sorry but most people aren't going to be willing to pay and do that. And those guys certainly won't have the capacity to deal with any sort of real demand.

davidoco

My figures are irrelevant. I picked a product, the guys took a flight with Ryanair and I put them up for a week. I got quotes from Irish plumbers to put in bog standard stuff (grant boilers/copper cylinders) and the price wasn't much less.

If you look at the http://www.systemlink.ie/calculator/solar.asp site you will see that they are quoting about 4,000 euro for a solar system with new tank installed. And of course there is a grant available with that.

davidoco

davidoco wrote:

I’ll get some pictures sorted and posted as it looks very impressive in the utility room.

As promised. I had a word with the germans and they would be interested in doing more of this sort of work here. You buy the components in Germany with their help, ship them over, they fly over and fit the stuff. There might be an issue about using 22mm/15mm fittings instead of Irish 1/2" or 3/4". My whole house is 28mm, 22mm and 15mm.

If you want this sort of plumbing done in Ireland by an Irish plumber you can have it but at what price?

piraka

Whats the purpose of the oil boiler?

davidoco

The oil boiler is required for heating the water when there is no sun or when the hot water isn’t at the required temperature when you require it. And of course the oil boiler is used to heat the house. The solar panels are only for hot water.

piraka

Doh, of course, effectively you got a complete heating system for €10,000.

Do-more

Very neat installation David.

One question, I was just discussing with a mate today.

Do you have any sort of "intelligent" controller for the solar and boiler. e.g. if the solar is say getting the water temp up to 50C and you top this up to 65C with boiler or immersion, will the controller stop the circulation pump for the solar from running so that it won't end up dumping the heat back to the atmosphere?

davidoco

See page 20 of the viessman guide.

http://www.viessmann.co.uk/downloads/SolarTechnology.pdf

To answer your question, I do know that the pump stops when the tank temperature reaches (I think) 50. I assume that when the boiler is firing and has heated tank water temp to a point higher than the temp at the panels the pump stops. This is controlled by the Vitosolic 100.

NextSteps

I'm very interested to read about your solar system as we're planning to do the same when we refurbish and extend our house in the next few months. Could you tell me how much space the solar 'stuff' takes up on the inside of the house? Do you need a whole utility room or is it stuff that could be disguised behind a kitchen cabinet, like a gas boiler?

davidoco

This picture shows what you need in the house. Most systems will have the small red tank, the controller (small grey box) and the pump (black box with three dials on top).

On a refurbish you will probably look to put these items into your hotpress. Remember that you will need to replace your existing hot water cylinder with a larger, dual coil and better insulated one (steel or copper). Note that your hotpress won't be a "hot" press any more as yoru pipework and cylinder should be so well insulated that there won't be any heat.

There are loads of different types of solar systems, some have small tanks that the water drains back into, some have just a little red pump and the controller, some use the actual water in the cylinder and don't use a heat exchanger (coil) etc etc

NextSteps

Thanks for your reply. It's good to get an explanation in layman's terms! If you have time, I have a few other questions:
Is it (any of it) noisy? Would you want it tucked away in a utility room (which of course I don't have) or can it be somewhere in the living quarters?
How physically close do the dials and pumps have to be to the panels, or is this a consideration? What about the (not hot) hot press?
How big is the hot tank?
Does all this have to be on an outside wall, the way the gas boiler does?
Have you noticed any disadvantages yet? Specifically, have you scalded yourself in the shower or had to climb up and clean the panels, or is there much upkeep?
How long do you expect the system to last?
And, of course, how many panels do you have and how much hassle was it getting the government grant?
Thanks again - and enjoy your hot water!

davidoco

UB wrote:

Is it (any of it) noisy? Would you want it tucked away in a utility room (which of course I don't have) or can it be somewhere in the living quarters?!

There is no discernable noise. It could go in the attic.

UB wrote:

How physically close do the dials and pumps have to be to the panels, or is this a consideration?

I don’t think this matters, but you would be looking to keep your pipe run from the cylinder to the panels on the roof as short as possible.

UB wrote:

How big is the hot tank?

http://www.viessmann.co.uk/products/domestic/dhwcylinders/vitocell300.php

UB wrote:

Does all this have to be on an outside wall, the way the gas boiler does?

No

UB wrote:

Have you noticed any disadvantages yet? Specifically, have you scalded yourself in the shower or had to climb up and clean the panels, or is there much upkeep?

Both showers and the bath fittings are thermostatic so they have a built in limit at which they will let out water. The sinks are fitted with cheaper mixing valves

http://www.rwc.co.uk/Product.aspx?page=CAT1

UB wrote:

How long do you expect the system to last?
And, of course, how many panels do you have and how much hassle was it getting the government grant?
Thanks again - and enjoy your hot water!

I don’t know how long it is going to last, the only thing I can see needing replacing are the panels.
See picture above I have two panels on the roof
I got no grant, as the installer would need to be on the approved SEI list.

dixiefly

Anyone know about the makes of solar panels that are available in Ireland? What are the good ones?

davidoco

The grant is a good thing. Most people will only fit 2 to 3 sq m of panels. There’s a grant of €400 per sq m. But if you can source the panels and equipment yourself, get a regular plumber to install them (say a day 250 to 300 euro) you might save money.


http://www.navitron.org.uk/faq.htm

http://www.filsol.co.uk/ this company is about an hour from the boat at Pembroke (Rosslare Ferry)

http://www.solartwin.com/diy.htm#kit has delivery to Ireland


https://www.rvr.ie good Irish site with idea of prices

GerryM

I just wanted to get my spiralling gas and ESB bills down so, like a lot of people, I'm coming late and green (in the old fashioned sense!) to all of this. You're much further up the curve, David, so I was wondering what your top of the head reaction might be to the following:

I rang an Irish company who told me: 'What you need is about 5 square meters of solar panel which will cost €4500 - but you get grants of €300 per sq. m off that so the real cost to you is €3,000. That'll do you for hot water and some space heating for about 9 months of the year. For the rest, you need a wood pellet burner which will cost €7,200 but you get a grant of €4,200 off that so again the cost to you will be €3,000. Total net cost €6,000and you've a combined solar and wood burning system......."

Okay, on the face of it that sounds like a much better deal than €10,000 just for a couple of sq. mt of solar panels, but obviously you've done your homework and rejected the sort of deal that was put to me. Separately, I've read a blog where a chap with some passionate feelings about what he regards as a profiteering factor on the part of some suppliers in Ireland http://wood-pellet-ireland.blogspot.com/

So I suppose I'm getting a bit confused and wondering if I'm being sold a pup....what makes your choice so much better than the locally offered ones?

You've written a lot already so I don't want to be another newbie pestering you, but any quick thoughts would be great if you have a moment.

Thanks

Gerry

davidoco

I need to clear one thing up because I don't think people are reading my posts. My solar hot water did NOT cost €10,000

REPEATED FROM ABOVE

It’s a full Viesmann system consisting of 2 Vitosol 100 solar panels with Vitosolic controller, 200 litre Viesmann steel cylinder and a triple pass Vitorond 100 oil boiler.

I built a new house (2500 sq ft) and the "loads of plumbing work" referred to above was for the whole house plumbing, everything, every wash hand basin, every bath, every sink, every copper pipe (no qualplex), every waste pipe, every radiator, every TRV, every fitting, two toilets etc etc. The oil boiler itself costs I think over €2,000 euro. The cylinder I think about €1400.

So we not comparing like with like when most people are now looking to upgrade their existing systems with solar powered hot water.

davidoco

GerryM wrote:

I rang an Irish company who told me: 'What you need is about 5 square meters of solar panel which will cost €4500 - but you get grants of €300 per sq. m off that so the real cost to you is €3,000. That'll do you for hot water and some space heating for about 9 months of the year. For the rest, you need a wood pellet burner which will cost €7,200 but you get a grant of €4,200 off that so again the cost to you will be €3,000. Total net cost €6,000and you've a combined solar and wood burning system......."

Firstly the grants for the wood pellet burners weren't around when I made my decisions and it's one thing I would 100% go for now if you had the space for the pellet storage. If the €7,200 (less grant of €4,200) you are being quoted includes installation and some sort of storage for 2 to 3 tonne of pellets, then that's a reasonable price.

5 sq m of solar panels - if the quote is for €4,500 installed with new (>200 ltr) dual coil cylinder (steel or copper http://www.lycrisbyrne.com/glass.html) then that's not bad. Please name the company as I'd like to see what you mean by space heating - solar panels heat water for washing etc. They don't usually have any use for heating except in some thermal store/underfloor heating installations which I imagine are relatively more expensive.

GerryM

David, thanks for taking the trouble to reply. I'll have to see if I can dig out the name of the company that gave me that quote - I was just ringing around a few of those on the SEI list, but I know they said nothing about including and installing a cylinder - I'm pretty sure that quote was just for the panels incl. installation of these. I do have an underfloor heating system which I think is why they said I'd get some space heating out of it as well.

Thanks

Gerry

davidoco

Here is a very good site which gives plenty of detail about solar hot water heating.

This is their price list
http://www.ecologics.ie/?page_id=8

For the average house with an existing muck standard hot water cylinder this would be your equipment costs

20 tube (best) panel €750
Roof mounting kit €18
New dual coil Copper cylinder 157ltr €600
Anit freeze, insulation, pressurised kit, pipe work, safety fittings €400
Solar controller €120
Circulating Pump €130

Total therefore, €2018 euro. Add €500 for any plumber to fit it and you have solar hot water for €2518. If the plumber is on the SEI list and will do it for €500 (would take one day to fit) you will get €600 back from SEI as a grant therefore cost to you €1918.

GerryM

David, thanks for that - especially the Ecologics link - their site is informative and they seem to have a good approach.

Gerry