DeVore for the Dail...

Sleepy

I've thought about this a few times before and I'm curious as to what other boards.ie users think. Has boards reached that critical mass where it could actually influence an election? Were DeVore to stand in a Dublin constituency would there be enough of us here to actually help get him elected (assuming he'd pick up a few votes from the local community through regular canvassing as well).

Are we there yet? If not, how much longer do you think it'll be before the internet starts to have an impact on real world politics?

bonkey

Sleepy wrote:

Has boards reached that critical mass where it could actually influence an election?

Maybe, but I doubt it.

Were DeVore to stand in a Dublin constituency would there be enough of us here to actually help get him elected (assuming he'd pick up a few votes from the local community through regular canvassing as well).

Again, I doubt it. I doubt you'd get the majorioty of boards users to back any candidate, regardless of who it was.

If not, how much longer do you think it'll be before the internet starts to have an impact on real world politics?

Once people stop thinking of it as "the internet" and start thinking of it as just another communication media.

EWheelChair

I wouldn't vote for him.. but i can't speak for anyone else.

tba

And Im not registered!

Raskolnikov

Sleepy wrote:

Were DeVore to stand in a Dublin constituency would there be enough of us here to actually help get him elected

You could say the exact same thing about Aine from sligozone.net, moreso given the fact that her site is concentrated on the one catchment area.

Are we there yet? If not, how much longer do you think it'll be before the internet starts to have an impact on real world politics?

The internet and blogging in particular has already had a big (and growing impact) on politics in the USA.

edanto

He probably wouldn't get elected just as 'DeV', but if he had the time and the inclination to get involved with a party that complemented his own ideas, he'd sure as hell have a good headstart.

What gets someone elected? As well as the things they stand for, it's also the publicity around them and their image. Number one is up to him. For publicity, I'm sure that lots of boardsies would help out and as for his image, we'll he's an affable guy.

So, short answer, yes he could, but would he want to?

Diogenes

I think the obvious thing would be, "what are his policies?" "What is he standing for?"

Earthhorse

Would he stand on a platform of creating a "benign dictatorship"?

If so, he's got my vote.

damien

So you think we should give Devore or No. 1s or No. 2s? Fair enough. I do think a grassroots political campaign could leverage boards.ie for sure but it takes way more than that to get elected. It would be a very clever way of generating publicity though.

Crucifix

If he was in my constituency, I would definitely consider voting for him.

Hobbes

Vote for Amp... A Vote for Amp is a vote for more owls*.


* This political message has been brought to you by the Amps for Owls foundation a subsidery of TCN.

flogen

damien.m wrote:

So you think we should give Devore or No. 1s or No. 2s? Fair enough. I do think a grassroots political campaign could leverage boards.ie for sure but it takes way more than that to get elected. It would be a very clever way of generating publicity though.

Publicity, certainly... I doubt he would be elected though but you never know, he could come out with some pretty radical (by which I mean rational) policies!

Keeping in mind that while boards.ie has quite a big membership 1) it's spread across Ireland and the rest of the world, 2) many are not of voting age/registered and 3) how many would actually vote for DeV because he's DeV?

Independents only have a chance if they pick important issues from their area too so that rules out any online-focused policies.

अधिनायक

I wouldn't vote for him.

He has a little virtual society running here and the model he chooses for its operation is dictatorship via trusted generals. Nice.

The automatic pant-shitting in the face of any corporate complaint makes him look more spineless than RTE. Even Joe Duffy can do consumer complaints phone-ins ffs.

Finally pretending that boards.ie is a community rather than a pension plan is cynical.

Hobbes

Clearly someone who needs more owls.

I wouldn't vote for him, he banned my mate.

Villain

He couldn't be any worse than whats currently in the Dail, could he?

Hobbes

अधिनाय&#2325 wrote:

Finally pretending that boards.ie is a community rather than a pension plan is cynical.

Thought I'd comment on this part. While afair boards.ie makes money, it is no where near money that would help you retire. He does have a day job you know.

WhiteWashMan

i suspect most people would miss the tom murphy name while looking for the devore tick box.

besides, ecksor is the real power behind boards.ie.

but really, it would depend if his politics were aligned with my own. i dont think personal relationship should dictate who runs a country (unless you happen to be in america and your brother-in-law is running the counting system)

seamus

I'm guessing that although Tom would like to change the world, he doesn't strike me as having a desire to join the Dáil. He strikes me as the kind of guy who'd prefer to make large changes through other (peaceful, obviously) actions.

Although I'd happily trust the guy to make reasonable & objective decisions, and I'd consider him close to incorruptible, I'd still need to see his plans & policies. Making plans for a community website of which you are an owner is one thing, making plans which affect the whole country are another.

milltown

Eh, hasn't he and his minnions said on many, many occasions that boards is not a democracy. He is a dictator. How the hell would that qualify him to run for political office in a democracy (admittedly a very bad one).

Am I banned?

Gone West

I'd vote for him.

अधिनायक

Hobbes wrote:

Thought I'd comment on this part. While afair boards.ie makes money, it is no where near money that would help you retire. He does have a day job you know.

'pension plan' is Tom's phrase, not mine.

The plan presumably is to keep the base feature set free and grow the membership and brand to a level where addtional pay features may be added or just sell it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this but it would be a bit more honest to admit it than to keep crapping on about 'community'.

anyhow: vote for honest open people!

seamus

अधिनाय&#2325 wrote:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this but it would be a bit more honest to admit it than to keep crapping on about 'community'

Unfortunately with the search down it would be tough for you to check up on this, but the admins have been fairly honest (and even ovezealous) when it comes to telling the community about the plans for the future.
Tom has always said that:
1. Nothing which has previously been free (registration, PMs, etc) will ever be turned into a subscriber perk.
2. Subscribers do get and will get added perks, but that doesn't mean that all new features will be denied to new and non-subscribing members.
3. He would like to make enough money from it such that he would never have to work a normal job (or that running boards.ie would be his full-time job).
4. Boards.ie would never be sold.

So little if anything has been held back. Calling it a community and making money from it, are not mutually exclusive. That's a bit like saying that Concern isn't a charity because Irish people make money from it.

Although I'm not so sure about number four. Every man has his price. I very much doubt that it would be sold off to just anyone.

Beruthiel

Deleted User wrote:

I wouldn't vote for him, he banned my mate.

Which only goes to prove he can take positive, swift action when a problem occurs.

I'd vote for him if he had a good solution for dealing with knackers, our medical system and road traffic in Dublin.

Beruthiel

Beruthiel wrote:

Which only goes to prove he can take positive, swift action when a problem occurs.

I'd vote for him if he had a good solution for dealing with knackers, our medical system and road traffic in Dublin.

Or that he and his minions tend to overreact to rule breaking. I could forsee him ordering the execution of jaywalkers.

Diogenes

milltown wrote:

Eh, hasn't he and his minnions said on many, many occasions that boards is not a democracy. He is a dictator. How the hell would that qualify him to run for political office in a democracy (admittedly a very bad one).

Am I banned?

I think theres a world of difference between how you would manage a small private community or business and act as a democratic representive.

Look at military types, most would never dream of breaking with, or disagreeing with "the chain of command" but don't expect outside society to revolve on the same principles.

I mean you can behave differently towards something you own and build privately, and then behave a completely different towards stuff in public.

अधिनायक

seamus wrote:

4. Boards.ie would never be sold.

I doubt Tom will back this one up.

So little if anything has been held back. Calling it a community and making money from it, are not mutually exclusive. That's a bit like saying that Concern isn't a charity because Irish people make money from it.

The primary purpose of a charity is to help some disadvantaged group. If you met one of the directors of Concern and he told you they saw their charity as their pension plan, you might be disturbed. But boards is not a charity it is constitued as a private company which is legally obliged to maximise returns to its five shareholders. Any other activity by its directors would be illegal. As it stands, building a community must always be a means to an end for boards.ie Ltd.

that's enough giving out!

flogen

Beruthiel wrote:

Which only goes to prove he can take positive, swift action when a problem occurs.

I'd vote for him if he had a good solution for dealing with knackers, our medical system and road traffic in Dublin.

tbh I'd happily support a candidate who promises to ban real world muppets from their constituencies

Diogenes

This thread must be a massive ego post for the bloke.....

Earthhorse

अधिनाय&#2325 wrote:

But boards is not a charity it is constitued as a private company which is legally obliged to maximise returns to its five shareholders. Any other activity by its directors would be illegal.

No company is legally obliged to maximise returns to its shareholders. That's a ridiculous statement to make.

ecksor

Sleepy wrote:

I've thought about this a few times before and I'm curious as to what other boards.ie users think. Has boards reached that critical mass where it could actually influence an election?

I don't think so. Consensus isn't easy to find on any political issue on boards and therefore to think of it as a coherent lobby group doesn't seem practical. However, like any form of media then it would seem to make sense that there is the potential to influence opinion amongst users but I doubt we'd influence many on any issues that matter. After that, there is the practical issue of boards users being concentrated in a constituency. How many people does it take?

I jokingly blogged about this idea about 3 years ago I think.

अधिनाय&#2325 wrote:

The automatic pant-shitting in the face of any corporate complaint makes him look more spineless than RTE. Even Joe Duffy can do consumer complaints phone-ins ffs.

OT here but: That's the second post from you going on about how weak an admin is in the face of legal complaint. If you actually have any insight into the law in this area and therefore some suggestion as to the best course of action to take in such matters, then we'd love to hear it because we're looking for a solution.

Since I suspect that you're a reincarnated poster then I can't really take any claims of cowardice as being anything other than hypocritical until you actually admit who you are.

Ruu_Old

I'd vote for DeVore, he can't do much worse than the bunch in there right now.

अधिनायक

The primary duty of directors according to the ODCE is to

exercise their powers in good faith and in the interests of the company as a whole.

In this context 'interests' are understood as 'financial interests'. In other words; their primary duty is to make money for the company.

Case law established that directors cannot pursue any agenda not in keeping with the goal of maximising company profits.

U.S. Supreme Court in Dodge v. Ford Motor Company, 1916 prevented Ford from below cost selling with the aim of helping the US economy.

a business corporation is organized and carried on primarily for the profit of the stockholders

Hutton v. West Cork Railway Company, decided that charitable donations by companies were illegal unless their PR benefit outweighed their cost

charity has no business to sit at boards of directors ...
There is, however, a kind of charitable dealing which is for the interest of
those who practice it, and to that extent and in that garb (I admit not a very
philanthropic garb) charity may sit at the board, but for no other purpose.

Earthhorse

अधिनाय&#2325 wrote:

In this context 'interests' are understood as 'financial interests'. In other words; their primary duty is to make money for the company.

Does the ODCE actually say that or are you just interpreting it that way?

I've no doubt that the directors of a company have a duty to act responsibly and pursue profits but I fail to see how they could be legally obliged to pursue "maximum profits" as that's an entirely theoretical figure. How could one reasonably enforce such law?

अधिनाय&#2325 wrote:

Case law established that directors cannot pursue any agenda not in keeping with the goal of maximising company profits.

Hutton v. West Cork Railway Company, decided that charitable donations by companies were illegal unless their PR benefit outweighed their cost

Correct me if I'm wrong but that case seems to be dealing with charitable donations not profit maximisation. And it's profit maximisation (specifically the maximisation bit) I'm having a problem with here. Who decides what maximum profits are?

Goodshape

I'd probably vote for DeV. I'd obviously have to know what he'd do with a seat in the Dail but from hanging around here for the past few years most of his ideals (at least the ones he's mentioned ¬_¬) seem not a world away from my own.

The possibility of engaging with him in open discussion on these forums would also be a major plus, and something actual politicians should be getting into, imho.

अधिनाय&#2325 wrote:

In this context 'interests' are understood as 'financial interests'. In other words; their primary duty is to make money for the company.

That sounds like your interpretation to me. Also, I think that the need to maximise profits is more of an issue with publicly floated companies, as they have an obligation to share holders not to purposefully piss away their money.

अधिनाय&#2325 wrote:

U.S. Supreme Court in Dodge v. Ford Motor Company, 1916 prevented Ford from below cost selling with the aim of helping the US economy.

Are you sure that wasn't more to do with the anti-competitive nature of such a move?

Time Magazine

Lads, hand-waving is interesting and in a hand-waving argument he might be able to get elected, but hand-waving doesn't win elections; and this is Politics after all so let's look at this logically. To get elected to the Dáil, you have to dislodge someone from their seat. Furthermore, to get a vote you have to take somebody else's vote. Who could he dislodge?

Dublin has eleven constituencies. In the next GE you can expect a helluva surge from Fine Gael so that things are going to very tight as is - three seats out of about fifty for the second largest party on the island is going to change.

1. Dublin Central - Bertie, Mary Lou, Tony Gregory, FG/Lab/Greens/FF fighting for last seat.
2. Dublin Mid-West - Mary Harney, FF, new Independent candidate Derek Keating, FG, Labour/Greens/SF all pushing for three seats.
3. Dublin North - Dirty Socialist Party vote increase here through the awful Clare Daly, Labour and Green seat, FF/FG fighting for last seat. Not a chance.
4. Dublin North Central - Ivor the Engine and Sean "did ye know me da?" Haughey will be slaughtered here but take at least one, FG to hold one, Finian McGrath, Labour. Hmm, maybe, but whose votes would he take? DNC wouldn't be the aim for a tech-savvy candidate. Assuming FF=1, FG=1, and Ind/Labour=1, would he really beat the defeated Labour/Ind vote?
5. Dublin North East - FG to take one FF seat, Labour to take one.
6. Dublin North West - SF/IRA-HIV/AIDS to take FF seat. Neither Ahern nor Shorthall to lose out.
7. Dublin South - Not a chance. Look how close (in terms of first preferences) the last two seats were. No votes to be taken.
8. Dublin South Central - FG Lord Mayer to pick up far more transfers from Gay Mitchell and push the already tight last two seats even tighter. No room for an unknown candidate.
9. Dublin South East - FG to pursue one-party strategy in its old stomping ground to really, really push the tightest constituency in the country. Either Eamon Ryan, Michael McDowell, Ruairi Quinn, poll-topper John Gormley or FG candidate to lose out; no way.
10. Dublin South West - Knacker to top poll again. If anyone will get in it's gonna be Brian Hayes, none of the others are gonna fall - look at the first preferences like.
11. Dublin West (wha') - Highest polling and youngest county councillor in the country (and resident uber-talented and uber-unapologetic) Leo Varadkar to oust someone here. Transfer pact for whiney Dep Burton to help her, no other seat insecure.

I don't think DeVore could be elected to the Dáil anytime soon. But tbh a candidate like him would be far better suited don Seanad, and he could get elected if he got vocal on things like broadband/infrastructe through one of the panels. Might help to hop on a party bandwagon though. I think the last University of Dublin seat (Norris and Ross have those two sewn up) would be too competitive, and is likely to be lost in the next decade anyway.

lostexpectation

Angry Banana wrote:

I don't think DeVore could be elected to the Dáil anytime soon. But tbh a candidate like him would be far better suited don Seanad, and he could get elected if he got vocal on things like broadband/infrastructe through one of the panels. Might help to hop on a party bandwagon though. I think the last University of Dublin seat (Norris and Ross have those two sewn up) would be too competitive, and is likely to be lost in the next decade anyway.

yeah but where is he on senate does he want it reformed or made elected?

lostexpectation

I think if candidate had a pledge of encouraging guards to beat up scumbags they would get the highest vote out of boards.ie

jimmycrackcorm

Devore is a just a figment of someones imagination.

oscarBravo

His own, I think.

arbeitsscheuer

A legend in his own ego.

P.S. Of course I'd vote for him. Be mad not to...

Dub13

Hobbes wrote:

He does have a day job you know.

No he does not,he is a jammy git.

smashey

"Dev" and "Dail Eireann" in the same sentence. Where have I heard that before?

The Corinthian

Sleepy wrote:

Are we there yet? If not, how much longer do you think it'll be before the internet starts to have an impact on real world politics?

No. As has been said already Boards is too demographically defused to make a difference in any one constituency. Many posters live abroad, let alone in a single Dublin constituency, are not registered to or cannot vote, or are of wildly differing political opinions to begin with. Add electoral laziness to the mix and organising them to vote for a single candidate in a single constituency would be akin to herding cats.

As for the Internet’s role in politics, this is already the case, although it’s measure of influence is open to debate. With the Western media increasingly seen as unable or unwilling to report objectively, many people - on both the left and right - have increasingly turned to the Web for their information.

The use of the Internet as a direct campaign tool, however, is still in its infancy. While numerous political sites exist, few have really leveraged the viral marketing strategies that would give them the mass audiences they really require to make a difference. Charities, being fundamentally businesses and thus incentified, are probably at the fore in this area.

My guess is that we’ll begin to see a real impact by the Internet in this area, first in the US (perhaps as early as the next presidential elections), but not in Ireland for a few years yet.

seamus wrote:

4. Boards.ie would never be sold.

LOL. I didn’t take you for being such an innocent Seamus.

TBH, that promise is right up there with “the cheque is in the post” and “I won’t do it in your mouth”

lostexpectation

The Corinthian wrote:

No. As has been said already Boards is too demographically defused to make a difference in any one constituency. Many posters live abroad, let alone in a single Dublin constituency, are not registered to or cannot vote, or are of wildly differing political opinions to begin with. Add electoral laziness to the mix and organising them to vote for a single candidate in a single constituency would be akin to herding cats.

As for the Internet’s role in politics, this is already the case, although it’s measure of influence is open to debate. With the Western media increasingly seen as unable or unwilling to report objectively, many people - on both the left and right - have increasingly turned to the Web for their information.

The use of the Internet as a direct campaign tool, however, is still in its infancy. While numerous political sites exist, few have really leveraged the viral marketing strategies that would give them the mass audiences they really require to make a difference. Charities, being fundamentally businesses and thus incentified, are probably at the fore in this area.

My guess is that we’ll begin to see a real impact by the Internet in this area, first in the US (perhaps as early as the next presidential elections), but not in Ireland for a few years yet.

LOL. I didn’t take you for being such an innocent Seamus.

TBH, that promise is right up there with “the cheque is in the post” and “I won’t do it in your mouth”

wasn't Dean thing much to do with revenue source, and afaik Ireland doens't seem to have the same sort of political funding drives, and certainly not over the internet

The Corinthian

lostexpectation wrote:

wasn't Dean thing much to do with revenue source, and afaik Ireland doens't seem to have the same sort of political funding drives, and certainly not over the internet

He also distributed campaign materials via download. Of course, simply sticking a PayPay button on your site is not going to raise funds alone - you really need a ‘hook’ to get people to and excited about your campaign.

TBH, I did a few Web sites for various candidates of various parties in the last local elections. Most really have a limited understanding of the Web and what it can do and so a Web site is often more a ‘be seen to have one’ thing rather than something to positively add to a campaign.

My opinion is, especially given the provincial nature of most national and local elections, that an Internet-based campaign would be most effective on an aggregate level (for parties rather than individual candidates), or for elections / votes with a constituency large enough, such European parliament elections, referenda or the Irish presidency.

seamus

The Corinthian wrote:

LOL. I didn’t take you for being such an innocent Seamus.

Well, be fair. I did say that every man has his price. I have no doubt that when Tom says it he fully means it, but as boards grows, so does the potential price, and the likelihood of selling.

Sleepy

Just to clarify this a little the 'Devore for the Dail' part of this post was rather tongue in cheek. This thread was intended to be more a conversation about the influence of the net on politics as The Corinthian, Raskolnikov and a few others picked up. DeVore as the 'public face' of boards.ie just happened to be the obvious choice were a candidate to be launched from this site (not that I wouldn't vote for you if you were to run Dev).

If a site like Boards.ie hit a critical mass where a moderate percentage of the Irish adult population were involved in it, I feel it could have a massive influence on the outcome of General Elections. TC hit on a major part of why I feel this could come to pass when he mentioned changing attitudes to western media. Many of us no longer trust the newspapers we read and FOX news shows exactly why you can't believe everything you see on television.

I don't really see any of this happening in our (i.e. the 'early adapters' of the internet) generation but moreso in the next generation, when kids grow up having the internet playing as big a part in their life as television played in our early years.

A Dub in Glasgo

There is no chance that this site can have a significant effect on any election. People are not going to vote a certain way because they happen to be a member of boards. As this site (any site) gets mass appeal, there will be very few things which bind people together to cause an impact in an election.

lostexpectation

Sleepy wrote:

Just to clarify this a little the 'Devore for the Dail' part of this post was rather tongue in cheek. This thread was intended to be more a conversation about the influence of the net on politics as The Corinthian, Raskolnikov and a few others picked up. DeVore as the 'public face' of boards.ie just happened to be the obvious choice were a candidate to be launched from this site (not that I wouldn't vote for you if you were to run Dev).

If a site like Boards.ie hit a critical mass where a moderate percentage of the Irish adult population were involved in it, I feel it could have a massive influence on the outcome of General Elections. TC hit on a major part of why I feel this could come to pass when he mentioned changing attitudes to western media. Many of us no longer trust the newspapers we read and FOX news shows exactly why you can't believe everything you see on television.

I don't really see any of this happening in our (i.e. the 'early adapters' of the internet) generation but moreso in the next generation, when kids grow up having the internet playing as big a part in their life as television played in our early years.

isn't boards demographic mostly young male IT workers rather then 'internet users' iykwim,

anyway look at what happend to net/grassroots in the US in ana articele entitled
Strip-mining the grassroots
http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/6/20/10248/3979

money, money, mo...