Discrimination & bullying

Dahakka

Good afternoon guys

I'll be brief, I promise, as most of us have better things to be doing.

I've recently gone through an experience in my workplace where I have been blatantly bypassed for a training course, which will have fundamental implications in my day to day job. No reason for this has been given. However, a colleague who works in my team (and who, incidentally, started out in the company on the very same date as myself) was chosen to attend the course. Upon enquiring about this with management, I was succintly informed that "the plan is to transfer knowledge (by the people who attended the course) to the remainder of the team". Now, I should point out that both individuals who attended the course have zero previous experience and knowledge whatsoever on the subject matter of the course, so draw your own conclusions as to the quality of the knowledge transfer that they can give on it.
I am not prepared to accept this, as I believe it is a blatant display of discrimination and/or bullying, so I have requested to set up a meeting with H R on the issue.
I have pointed to management that if a team is considered to be as such, the level of training should be equal to all members of it if the same level of performance & expertise is to be maintained.
What are your views & opinions on this issue? Would I have a point in saying that it is a case of discrimination and or/bullying or am I seeing too much into this? Please bear in mind that if I don't do this course I (an another colleague for that matter) will be in serious disadvantage in comparison to the rest of the team.

Thanks for your time, any views welcome.

Regards

Dahakka

leeroybrown

Firstly there was a thread on 'Work place bullying' on this forum recently. You might find some interesting information about the kind of bullying that some employees put up with.

This may come across as offensive but I'm just offering an honest opinion. I think your employer has every right to decide who they send on training courses, how many employees are sent, who is not and how the information is fed back to the rest of the team. Based on the information given the worst I could describe your situation as is 'a poor management decision' based on the assumption that you already know about the area and might be better placed to learn from the course.

Based on the information in your post I don't think that they are in any way 'discriminating' against you or 'bullying' you. You don't give any indication that there might be an underlying reason to deiscrimate/bully. All I can see is that two people were picked by management probably based on the available training budget or the ability to take people off the job.

I agree that not doing this course may put you at a disadvantage and that you should make an effort to get management to send you if possible or to arrange a meaningful knowledge transfer afterwards at a minimum but I don't think that it even enters the realm of bullying or discrimination.

Zillah

Are they obliged to train you? If not then I fail to see your complaint. They chose this other person over you. Perhaps they are better at the job than you and they wish to invest in this person for the future. Perhaps they could only train one and flipped a coin.

Do you have reason to believe they neglected you on grounds of race, gender, religion or sexual orientation? If not, I don't see how you have grounds for complaint. I certainly don't see how it could be seen as bullying.

Is there more to this you're not telling us?

gerrycollins

leeroybrown wrote:

Firstly there was a thread on 'Work place bullying' on this forum recently. You might find some interesting information about the kind of bullying that some employees put up with.

This may come across as offensive but I'm just offering an honest opinion. I think your employer has every right to decide who they send on training courses, how many employees are sent, who is not and how the information is fed back to the rest of the team. Based on the information given the worst I could describe your situation as is 'a poor management decision' based on the assumption that you already know about the area and might be better placed to learn from the course.

Based on the information in your post I don't think that they are in any way 'discriminating' against you or 'bullying' you. You don't give any indication that there might be an underlying reason to deiscrimate/bully. All I can see is that two people were picked by management probably based on the available training budget or the ability to take people off the job.

I agree that not doing this course may put you at a disadvantage and that you should make an effort to get management to send you if possible or to arrange a meaningful knowledge transfer afterwards at a minimum but I don't think that it even enters the realm of bullying or discrimination.

i agree with this and but also to point out that sending people with "zero experience" as the OP puts it might be more beneficial to the team as they will enter the training with empty heads and will be more inclined to do the job with the new training wheras a person with the experience might be act the know-it-all at training and the company will not benefit

Dahakka

Thanks for the replies

You all make valid points, however, you are missing a key factor; if I don't do this course, I will be forced to go back and forth to some people asking questions, which would severely hamper my status. To illustrate the issue, it's like training 5 pilots out of 10 to fly a new aircraft and then requesting the other 5 to fly the new planes just as well. At this point in my career I will not make concessions, given my past experience and professional status. In response to Zillah, there's no other underlying issues, personal or otherwise conflicts (that I am aware of) and nothing to do with gender, race, etc. And more importantly, the issue is not who's better than who. It is simply not acceptable to be skipped training for a particular matter and then be expected to rise up the ocassion when needed. Either you train everybody or you do not. A team is supposed to be homogeneous if a team performance is expected. Otherwise is a bunch of people "doing their own thing". As I pointed out to the relevant people here, conflict and dissent will inevitably soon follow should the issue not be resolved satisfactorily. I should highlight at this point that I am a very qualified IT professional, not a guy in a sweat shop who's been bypassed from a crash course on swift knitting.

Thanks for your time

Regards

Dahakka

LDB

Its only discrimination if it falls under one of the gronds under Equality legislation e.g. age, gender, family status.
So you would have to ask 'have i been passed up for this training because I am a Man/Woman, because I am younger/older than the others etc'

Bullying is usually not considered a one off event either so there would usually have to be other grounds in conjuntion with this.

The managers might just feel that the other people are better at their job than you I'm afraid!

eth0_

You seem to have a bit of an attitude problem from reading your posts here, and if that comes across in your work then i'm not surprised you got passed over!

Are you actually managing people or are you just on the team the longest?
If you're not actually in a position of power above the others on your team, what right have you to demand this training course? Perhaps your manager wants to spread knowledge and training out equally among your team, did you think about that?

Dahakka

Again, thanks for your comments.

I somehow had a feeling that somebody was going to mention an attitude problem, and I haven't been dissapointed.
Let's look at this issue from another angle, shall we? You are the most experienced member of a team and a training course for a subject in which neither you or your colleagues have any previous experience -but which will soon become part of the daily routine - becomes available. For no good reason, you are not sent to the course, while others are. Notwithstanding of this however, you will still be required to know what the course would have taught you. You are not given documentation of any kind, and will probably have to rely on the rehashed and rejiggled information that others which as much knowledge on the subject matter as I may have on ancient Hebrew may give you in broken bits and pieces.
I am not managing anybody, nor I wish to do so. But if I did, I would certainly make sure that everybody under me was properly trained for the job at hand.
In response to eth0_, if the manager wishes to spread knowledge, shouldn't it be spread to everybody?

Thank you for your time

Regards

Dahakka

LDB

Hi Dahakka,

Perhaps if the course hasn't commenced yet you could make a suggestion to you manager.... that if you are all requrired to have the knowledge for your day to day job then perhaps rather than sending a few people out on a course, they could bring someone in to do in house training so it sould cost no more to add another member into it.

You might find that a constructive suggestion will get you futher than a complaint.

daveg

As someone who works in training and education maybe I can shed some light on the matter. I organise the Technical Training of 70 Technicians and have come across this issue several times. Occasionally external/expert training will be made available. The slots on these classes are generally in the region of 3/4 places. The expectation of those 3/4 attending the class is that they will come back to deliver the training internally.

The decision of who to send takes into account the following variables. First and foremost previous knowledge of subject - Usually the most experienced will go as they will retain the most amount of information. Second level is ability to deliver the training back to other employees. This is also a big decision. Some do not have the temperament to re-deliver training. Some may not make themselves available on overtime to deliver back the training (we deliver training on OT as we run a 4 cycle shift pattern). Suitability for delivery of training back to our employees would often override the first decision. In other words the most experienced will not always be sent on the training courses.

Do you feel this may have been a factor in deciding who attends training in your case?

bbbbb

Dahakka wrote:

incidentally, started out in the company on the very same date as myself)

Irrelevant

Dahakka wrote:

I should point out that both individuals who attended the course have zero previous experience and knowledge whatsoever on the subject matter of the course

but neither do you, so also irrelevant.

Dahakka wrote:

I believe it is a blatant display of discrimination and/or bullying, so I have requested to set up a meeting with H R on the issue.

as has been said before, I suggest you look up what bullying actually, as this is not it. You'll make much more progress if you go to your boss with some constructive suggestions, as has already been suggested.

Dahakka wrote:

the level of training should be equal to all members of it if the same level of performance & expertise is to be maintained.

I don't know of any company that can send all employees to all courses.

Dahakka wrote:

would severely hamper my status.

Irrelevant, and unless these people report to you, hints at an attitude issue (already stated)

Dahakka wrote:

At this point in my career I will not make concessions, given my past experience and professional status.

Is the real issue that there is a shift in the ground here, and you'll no longer be king of the hill?

Zillah

I think your complaint here is that you're being expected to perform a job that you havn't been trained for.

The issue of them skipping you for training is irrelevant; they have no obligation to train you. What is a problem is the fact that they are then expecting unreasonable performance.

If thats an legal issue or not I don't know.

matrim

Dahakka wrote:

Again, thanks for your comments.
Let's look at this issue from another angle, shall we? You are the most experienced member of a team and a training course for a subject in which neither you or your colleagues have any previous experience -but which will soon become part of the daily routine - becomes available. For no good reason, you are not sent to the course, while others are. Notwithstanding of this however, you will still be required to know what the course would have taught you. You are not given documentation of any kind, and will probably have to rely on the rehashed and rejiggled information that others which as much knowledge on the subject matter as I may have on ancient Hebrew may give you in broken bits and pieces.

If you are the most experienced in the team, the manager may be looking to spread information around the team. This will limit the impact to the team if you are on holidays or sick leave.

That is what a team normally is. It isn't about having everyone on the exact same level of ability on every subject.
Someone is strong on one point, someone else is strong on another. When needed this knowledge is shared.

Dahakka

Thanks to all for your time and comments. Some of them are more helpful/relevant than others but I do appreciate the feedback. Zillah nailed it in the head though, while eth0_ resorted to the old and familiar attitude issue. The Manson clan had an attitude problem. Charles Whitman had a serious attitude issue. You could even suggest that Mr. Burns has a need for an attitude adjustment course. I don't.

All in all, very valid points. Thank you.

Regards

Dahakka

GreeBo

Zillah wrote:

I think your complaint here is that you're being expected to perform a job that you havn't been trained for.

So like the rest of the countries workforce then?
Who gets training for everything they do?
I'm a software engineer and I certainly dont get to go to courses for every technology Im expected to use.

You do appear to have an attitude problem as you have expressed distaste at having to ask your "teammates" for help.
Newsflash buddy, thats an attitude problem.

Dahakka

Hey buddy! Newsflash! I don't have an attitude problem! The thread was not about attitude! End of newsflash!

GreeBo

Dahakka wrote:

Hey buddy! Newsflash! I don't have an attitude problem! The thread was not about attitude! End of newsflash!

1,2,3,4,5.
Five exclamations marks.
No, no attitude problems there at all. :rolleyes:

Zillah

There actually was a lot of attitude in that post...