a few observations

Gholimoli

I was thinking my self how different my game is since ive started playing cash games. Then I was wondering what the difference is between the two types of players.
This made me think what I do differently now and I thought maybe it will be useful
To start a thread about it and people can join in and add their own thoughts and experience, which should make a great source of information.
The below is just a few observations from my short period in cash games and reading about it .
In no particular order:

1) Playing against draws
Don’t over bet the pot trying to protect against draws. This is often done in tourneys where you have your lifeline to worry about but in cash games this is where a lot of ppl makes mistakes and that’s where your money comes from. You don’t want to chase them away as long as you’re not offering them correct odds to chase.
Instead practice on not paying them off if the draw hits. This kills their implied odds and as long as you bet the correct amount it often puts you in win/win situations.
This can save you a bunch of money in the long run as well as earn you a lot.
The same way when your drawing make sure you know what your doing (ie you have the odds or implied odds etc) other wise your really in a lose/lose situation.

2) Playing lower limits
In lower limits all you really need is to play ABC poker.
Money is made by ppl making mistakes. in lower limits ppl have many problems in their ABC poker so if you know that well (or even better than them) then your naturally making less mistakes and therefore earning more. It’s really as simple as that.
Don’t get fancy with your plays (like I often do) when there is absolutely no need.
For example if villain will not fold TP no matter what, don’t try to get him to fold (and when the doesn’t and you have lost a buy-in in the process you call them a fish) instead when you get a hand that beats TP bet them hard and watch how they pay you off.
The need for more complex moves and poker playing in the upper limits in my opinion is because ppl know their ABC pretty well so you need to get your edge from somewhere else. But in lower limits most don’t know it all so ABC is all you need to apply to beat them. this often means playing TAG which is a real stable way of winning lower limits.

3) Learn to play poker post flop
In tourney hands often end pre-flop or on the flop. Future street play is not really needed that much. Part of this I suppose has to do with shallow stacks and another part could be risk of ruin and avoid getting bust. This often leads to tourney players not being able to play well on later streets.
The mistake they make is not really that noticeable in tourneys, again because of shallow stacks.
None of these apply in cash games and in fact most poker is played post flop. That’s why you really need to brush up on post flop play because that’s where you get your edge.
The deeper the stacks the more critical post flop play and the less important pre flop play becomes.

4) Don’t suffer from fancy play syndrome (like I do)
Don’t try to get fancy when there is no need for it (and honestly most of the time there isn’t). Just because you think you’re better than the table (and you very well maybe) it doesn’t make your QT weigh better against AQ on a Q high flop.
Don’t play more hands from all different position just because you think your better and you can pull them off.
The fact is statically (and this means no matter how good you are) most hands can’t be played profitably from most positions because they are just weak holdings. this is really simple but often (my self included again) ppl think just because they have more experience or what ever they can turn them these loosing hands in to profitable ones.
This way of thinking can lose you a lot of money.


5) Thinking in terms of the long run.
This I think the most simple yet over looked concept in cash games especially for tourney players. Even thought ppl know it and hear about it all the time yet something keeps them from actually applying it and believing that the long term is the long term.
I suppose for tourney players its easy to see why they don’t apply it that much because their results are much more immediate based.
The first time it really hit me what the long term really means was when I looked at my stats in poker tracker for 10K hands.
The amount I had lost from just completing the SB was really shocking and then I copped on how much I could save “in the long run” by just not completing as much in the SB and I did.
This is only one example. Playing the draws, chasing when you don’t have odds etc and practically all poker is in the long run.

6) Nothing wrong with folding
I think psychologically ppl hate folding the best hand. This often makes them call bets even though they strongly suspect they are beat, just for the off chance that they may be folding the best hand.
Truth is there is nothing wrong with sometimes folding the best hand. If you never fold the best hand your in real risk of becoming a calling station. Infact better players are more prone to be folding the best hand than worse players.
Use your judgment, look at the way the hand has been played and if you think your beat just fold.
Or you raise with AK and miss the flop and some one bets in to you. There is nothing wrong with folding here.

7) Table image.
Table image is important but again less so in lower limits.
People mostly play their cards in lower limits with little or no regards to how or what type of cards others are playing.
I mean if the dude thinks AJ is a very strong hand and good enough to call a reraise with out of position then his hardly going to fold his AJ just because you have been tight or you have not played a hand in 3 orbits.
He doesn’t care, to him his got AJ and AJ is AJ no matter who his up against.
Take notice of these players and don’t try to make a move on them based on your image.

8) When in doubt bet
A few months a go I posted a hand that I cant remember and there was a discussion about two different lines. One involved checking the turn and the other involved betting it. The two lines were pretty close in terms of expectation and I was wondering how to tell which is better/then Fuzz put me out of my misery and said
When in doubt bet.
This is very true, if you have a situation where you don’t know which line to take, bet it. Obviously I mean this with good hands and not bluffs but you cant ever be that wrong with betting with good hands.

8) Have a plan
Try to have a plan for the hand your playing. This takes a bit of practice but its really good when you get used to it. Don’t just call bets with no intention or plan for the next move.
Don’t just bet with no plan on what happens if you get called or if you get raised.
For example, im going to call this one bet but if he bets any more im going to fold.
This is perfect and there is nothing wrong with it.
Or im going to bet this and fold if I get raised.
But don’t play “spare of the moment “ poker. Even though it may work once in while but you will not have great results this way.
Feel free to change your plan every now and then as the hand proceeds and your plan is not set on stone but rather just so you have an idea where the hand is potentially headed.


9) Getting ppl to fold made hands
By made hands I mean a pair or better and usually TP.
If you never get any one to fold TP you haven’t really gone that wrong. But you can easily lose a couple of buy- ins trying (trust me I know).
In general its not good idea trying to get ppl to fold why they have .the lower the limit the more true this becomes. People just don’t like to fold and they like to keep you honest or what ever the reason is, they don’t fold often enough to make this a profitable play. Instead value bet all you want.

10) Aggression
To be honest I think its fun more than anything else .when you get some one to fold a good hand with nothing it kind of gives you a feeling of superiority .
Sadly its not really that simple and it can easily kill you.
To be honest this is just my opinion but I think good and proper poker(at least in low limits )and the type of poker that earns you good money in low limits is really boring.
Fold fold fold fold ,raise ,miss flop,fold again,call a raise,miss flop,fold again,raise with AA every one folds ….
Well you chose whether you’re in it to make money or have fun.
Im not saying you cant win by being aggressive.aggression in poker is D .if people are having a lot of problems with their ABC (and we all know they do ) then there is enough mistakes there to earn from with out having to use D that much.
Obviously the better the players get then the more important it becomes but try to understand it and control it well before using it as a constant weapon.




11) Experiment
After you get your ABC then try out different things.
Experiment with different styles, different opponents etc.
For example if you often raise from the button when folded to try not doing it and limp in. see how it works for you. Play bad hands out of position and see what kind of decisions you’re faced with post flop. See what is going through your head and what makes you take the actions your going to take. Those are probably the exact same thought process your opponent is going through when he is playing out of position.
Once you know these things it’s much easier to take advantage of them.
The fact is ppl remember things much better by experience them first hand than by reading about them .the best way to experience them is to play and experiment different things.

Now ive tried to make the text with as little spelling mistake as possible.
Im sure you will still find a good few in there but your hardly going to expect me to make a post with out my trademark!

shoutman

Great post Gholi.

This needs to be stickied.

NickyOD

No ****ing way am I reading all that!!!

shoutman

Ah go on nicky, you might learn somethin

tribulus

yeah great post, i've copied and pasted it into a folder of boards advice!

there's been some other long posts about general play, would be good if they could be merged into one or something

ntlbell

Gholimoli wrote:

I was thinking my self how different my game is since ive started playing cash games. Then I was wondering what the difference is between the two types of players.

Still a fish........:D

djkeogh

Enjoyable read, Sticking to it is sometimes harder though. **TILT**

Killme00

Thank you sir for some very sound advice.

I am just starting out again after not playing for a few months. I will be starting at the small stakes and building from there..using your advice of course.

again thanks

El Stuntman

nice post Gholster!!

but avoiding FPS is no fun....

MrPillowTalk

One of the major things that people who play a lot of tourneys dont do is actively try to play smaller pots pre flop.

In tournaments due to playing a smaller stack (BB wise) it can often be the correct play to make big raises in order to increase fold equity. However if you are better than your opponents trying to keep the pot small pre flop gives you a lot more options on the flop. The main advantage is that it is easier to get away from a hand, saved bets are very important in cash games.

Edit: I just read what I wrote there and I dont think Im putting my point across very well but cant really think of a more succinct way of putting it, others may do a better job.

Lafortezza

Hi Gholi,

one thing I think you might have missed is improving your hand-reading ability.
In several of your points you talk about how to play against Villain when he has TPTK or a draw or whatever. Learning to figure out what type of hand Villain is playing is one of the hardest to learn and possibly one of the most profitable.

If you have detailed stats and/or player notes on particular regular opponents, you will be able to get away from overpairs when you can recognise that Villain could have a set from his betting patterns. Similarly you can save money by recognising that somone may be going for a check-raise against you, or someone may be slowplaying a monster.

A minraise on the turn when the flush hits by Villain A could be the nuts, but against Villain B it could be top pair with a 1-card flush draw, knowing the difference is key when deciding what to do with your bottom set.

I'm guilty of multi-tabling and playing ABC poker and not paying attention to individual opponents when I really should be concentrating on the fact that the uber-tight nit called UTG just as I am about to raise 55 on the button.
Good post though.

pok3rplaya

Great post. I won't say I read it all but I skimmed through it and there is some great advice in there.

fuzzbox

This is an utterly excellent post.
Nice one Gholi

sikes

cheers gholi, im trying to make a move from tourney to cash, you saved me a lot of time and $$$

The Snapper

Excellent post Gholi. Shows way too much understanding for one so fresh on the cash game scene. I'll be giving you a wide berth at the tables so

Playing a little low limit cash myself now and the fancy plays can really wipeout hours of profit in one hand, when the fish does'nt fold to your raise and your read says he has to. So could'nt agree more about the ABC poker at low limit point. ( cost me a lot of $$$ to learn that, and a few wacks from the baseball bat for good measure ):o

RoundTower

Good post, you have obviously learnt a lot in the last 6 months.

gerire

Gholi

This is an excellent post, i really enjoyed and learnt from it. I will add it tothe biki tomorow

@tribulus: You said you have a folder of boards posts you dot happen to have links with them too? if you do pm me please

NickyOD

Gholimoli wrote:

8) Have a plan
Try to have a plan for the hand your playing. This takes a bit of practice but its really good when you get used to it. Don’t just call bets with no intention or plan for the next move.
Don’t just bet with no plan on what happens if you get called or if you get raised.
For example, im going to call this one bet but if he bets any more im going to fold.
This is perfect and there is nothing wrong with it.
Or im going to bet this and fold if I get raised.
But don’t play “spare of the moment “ poker. Even though it may work once in while but you will not have great results this way.
Feel free to change your plan every now and then as the hand proceeds and your plan is not set on stone but rather just so you have an idea where the hand is potentially headed.

I tihnk this is real difference between a fish and someone who knows how to play poker.

The_Chopper

NickyOD wrote:

I tihnk this is real difference between a fish and someone who knows how to play poker.

Unless you plan on pushing with 85o

Lplate

Excellent post Gholi. Tons of "thinking material". WD

ocallagh

Gholimoli wrote:

Now ive tried to make the text with as little spelling mistake as possible.
Im sure you will still find a good few in there but your hardly going to expect me to make a post with out my trademark!

with this kind of advice you can make as many spelling mistakes as you like!! excellent post. i have saved this to my laptop. fair play

5starpool

Terrible post.

Only joking, I had to try and add some negativity though.

Bp!

Hey Gh,

Very well written post and alotta good food for thought

NickyOD

The_Chopper wrote:

Unless you plan on pushing with 85o

The only thing wrong with that plan is that it fails when an idiot resorts to plan B. Call Call and Call again.

Ste05

Very well written Gholi, nicely done,