How to get river value?

pok3rplaya

Opp is 19/15 standard player.

Check or bet?

If bet, how much?
If check, do we want to check-raise, check-call or check-fold? And will he bet enough to make it work?


***** Hand History for Game 4754340456 *****
$400 NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, July 18, 10:42:25 ET 2006
Table Table 95881 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 4: lolYouFoldEZ ( $1108.71 )
Seat 3: mpope36 ( $428.51 )
Seat 2: k02z23 ( $500.40 )
Seat 1: Logoo111 ( $131.90 )
Seat 6: heartless333 ( $367 )
Seat 5: TheHumanChord ( $406.90 )
mpope36 posts small blind [$2].
lolYouFoldEZ posts big blind [$4].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to lolYouFoldEZ [ Kd Ah ]
TheHumanChord folds.
heartless333 folds.
Logoo111 folds.
k02z23 raises [$14].
mpope36 folds.
lolYouFoldEZ raises [$46].
k02z23 calls [$36].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6c, Ts, 4h ]
lolYouFoldEZ bets [$70].
k02z23 calls [$70].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7s ]
lolYouFoldEZ checks.
k02z23 checks.
** Dealing River ** [ Ad ]
lolYouFoldEZ ???

Gholimoli

if im not right then the pot is about $240 or so.
check the river and call anything up to hlaf pot.anything more than that is really hard to tell.
villain raises /the calls a reraise.
calls a flop bet/checks behind on the river dosent look that strong at all.
to be honest i think he has somthing like 99.
but he is likely to have a made hand which is not that strong,or his trapping with a very strong hand.
this is why i think a check/call is the best line.there is no point in betting as the only hands you beat that contain an A are Aj and AQ and i dont thin k he could call nearly a pot sized bet on the flop with any of them.

RoundTower

I would bet 140 or so. Not exactly sure of what the PT numbers mean but sounds like he is fairly tight? Second choice which may be better would be check/call more or less any bet.

Lafortezza

I check-call here. It looks like a pair 88-QQ or something. If Villain has a set then check-calling gets you to showdown cheapest. If you bet the river you let worse hands get away, and you let better hands than yours raise. Checking allows Villain to bluff at the Ace.
If villain has Ax then you might get a bet from him either.

fuzzbox

lafortezza wrote:

I check-call here. It looks like a pair 88-QQ or something. If Villain has a set then check-calling gets you to showdown cheapest. If you bet the river you let worse hands get away, and you let better hands than yours raise. Checking allows Villain to bluff at the Ace.
If villain has Ax then you might get a bet from him either.

What makes you think he will bet?
He just checked behind on the turn, so he sure as hell wont bet when the A falls. This guy thinks he has the best hand.

If you want value then bet (and I would fold to a raise)

Lafortezza

fuzzbox wrote:

What makes you think he will bet?
He just checked behind on the turn, so he sure as hell wont bet when the A falls. This guy thinks he has the best hand.

If you want value then bet (and I would fold to a raise)

Because we C-bet the flop and then check the turn, and then checked the river. What does Villain put us on? Hardly a monster.

Villain will likely bet a weaker Ace, and possibly bet a pair below Aces. If we bet we get called by a weaker Ace but a pair below Aces folds. Checking the river allows some crappy hand to bluff too.

fuzzbox

lafortezza wrote:

Because we C-bet the flop and then check the turn, and then checked the river. What does Villain put us on? Hardly a monster.

Villain will likely bet a weaker Ace, and possibly bet a pair below Aces. If we bet we get called by a weaker Ace but a pair below Aces folds. Checking the river allows some crappy hand to bluff too.

Lets consider villains hand a little.

He raised pf and called a reraise, and calls the flop bet, but then checks behind on the turn?

What about that play makes you think weaker Ace?

Since he checked the turn, he wont bet KK- on the river for value, as we cant call without an ace. (and he showed no propensity to bet the turn)

If he wanted to bluff, then the turn was a great spot to bluff.

I like a value bet here, because I just dont see villain betting the river with a worse hand, but he might well call with one (he might not, but that doesnt mean that we should not bet).

But I fold to a raise, because villain could play a set this way if he is tricky.

I bet because I dont see a worse hand betting the river, given the action, and I think we have the best hand. So value bet is a good play for me here.

Lafortezza

I don't disagree that a value bet is correct, I'm saying that a check and call is fine too. We don't have any info on Villain, but we can estimate his hand range for raising PF and calling a reraise to be TT+ and AJs+ since it's 6max.

There's probably 3 hands for villain here, set in which check-calling is better for us, Ax where maybe Villain will bet the river if we check, maybe he won't.
Or a hand like JJ-KK. If we bet, he folds, if we check maybe he might take a stab at the scare card.