[Article] Air passengers face long immigration queues

Victor

I was slightly bemused recently at some American being indignant having to queue (the queue being about six people long) while Europeans were waved through almost non-chalently.

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/breaking/8487391?view=Eircomnet

Air passengers face long immigration queues
From:ireland.com
Monday, 17th July, 2006

Hundreds of travellers faced lengthy queues to pass through immigration checks after landing at Dublin Airport today.

Fine Gael Transport spokeswoman, Olivia Mitchell, claimed passengers had been delayed at Garda immigration booths for up to 90 minutes.

"The two immigration booths available to EU and domestic passengers were simply unable to cope with demand today but it would seem this is not a new development and gardai on duty indicated that these kinds of delays were a regular occurrence," the TD said.

"Hundreds of people were forced to queue for immigration in intolerable and overheated conditions for over an hour and a half."

A spokeswoman for the Dublin Airport Authority said urgent discussions were taking place between airport managers and An Garda Siochana to rectify the delays at immigration.

"It is difficult as we don't have direct control of the area, An Garda Siochana manage and man the booths," she said. "It is becoming quite a difficulty for passengers."

However, the spokeswoman said she had not received any reports of a 90-minute wait for immigration. She said some passengers faced a wait of up to 20 to 30 minutes.

The immigration area was enlarged recently with an extra booth installed. But it was confirmed only two out of the four booths were being manned by gardai today.

Ms Mitchell said it was intolerable to allow the situation to continue whether it arose from garda availability or from an inadequate number of immigration booths.

"It's not just uncomfortable and dangerous for hapless passengers; it undermines any ambition Dublin airport may have to become a hub in the future. A successful hub airport must be able to ensure the efficient throughput of passengers and make certain that nobody misses their onward flights," she said.

dam099

Victor wrote:

I was slightly bemused recently at some American being indignant having to queue (the queue being about six people long) while Europeans were waved through almost non-chalently.

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/breaking/8487391?view=Eircomnet

He obviously never saw the queues for non-US citizens at many US Airports then, I've waited up to 2 hours at Miami and Ft. Lauderdale while US citizens walked by nonchalantly.

RuggieBear

90 minutes queues in Sydney, Australia as well for non nationals...just what you need after such a long journey.

Bluetonic

*Ahem*

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=51738746&postcount=68

Thought it was better to add it to where it had already been discussed.

therecklessone

Victor wrote:

I was slightly bemused recently at some American being indignant having to queue (the queue being about six people long) while Europeans were waved through almost non-chalently.

Now if we could just fingerprint and photograph them they might get some idea of what its like for us to visit their country...;)

mackerski

They could free up some capacity at "passport" control by doing what every other airport does and having free-travel-area arrivals bypass it, routing them instead past a reduced discretionary check that need not always be manned.

It makes my blood boil having to queue to get back into my own country when I'm arriving from the UK. I never produce ID unless asked for it, and that happened last week for the first time ever.

Dermot

peter1892

I've never had to endure a queue at immigration getting back into Dublin. The last time I travelled, the bloke in the booth didn't even look at my passport to see if it was an Irish/EU one...

On the other hand I've stood for over an hour at the US pre-immigration in Dublin airport, (and subsequently had my flight delayed for an hour) because there weren't enough staff on duty.

Queues at US airports...maybe 10 minutes at both LAX & SFO. It's about timing, in both of those cases there were a lot of staff on duty & not too many passengers waiting in line. In the case of my Dublin experience there were 4 or 5 full flights going out to the USA within an hour of each other & only 3 of the 6 booths were manned.

secret_squirrel

This happened to me before they added the extra booth. Grr 2 booths manned out of 3, at peak evening rush hour.

I assume this is from the A gates.

Its a little unfair blaming just the Guards (although they deserve a share) when it was DAA who added 6 or 8 new temporary gates using those portacabins.

Its blatently obvious that the escalator between the A gates and the Baggage hall was a choke point waiting to happen.

Having said that only having 2 booths manned out of 4 at a busy time is inescusable.

It would also help if DAA tried to condense the UK/Internal flights into 1 area where a more cursory check could be done as a previous poster mentioned. Its really annoying to come in from LHR into the B gates and get stuck behind a T/A flight thats just spilled 300 Yanks into immigration.

I would also note that the Booths are never fully manned at the B and C gates but they at least have enough booths to deal with the numbers of passengers coming through.

But lets face it the Guards arent exactly well known for their competence are they?

In other news there were 3 customs officers at the exit to the baggage hall on sunday night, I almost fainted from the shock.

therecklessone

secret_squirrel wrote:

Its a little unfair blaming just the Guards (although they deserve a share) when it was DAA who added 6 or 8 new temporary gates using those portacabins.

Debateable to what extent the new gates have exacerbated the existing delays, in the absence of extra contact stands you'd have passengers bussed to and from remote stands, they'd still be arriving @ the Pier A passport control at some point.

The problem might be relieved slightly by bussing passengers from remote stands through Piers B and C to spread the load slightly, but the economics may not work (how much use would there be for buses during the quieter periods?) and Ryanair would kick up a fuss about the extra workload involved.

A simple enough solution would be for the travelator corridor to/from Pier A to become one way for inbound passengers, allowing more space for passport booths and a dedicated channel for UK and internal flights (could be manned by DAA staff rather than Gardai, with access granted to anyone with the correct boarding pass like in most UK airports, Gardai could do spot checks if they wished). Outbound passengers could be routed via stairs/escalator to a ground floor corridor under the existing one, bypassing the inbound melee and emerging somewhere near the entrance to Duty Free. Make sense?

secret_squirrel

I think the bus idea makes a lot of sense, although agree the economics may be debatable.

Also the corridor idea (if a suitable one exists) also makes sense.

I wondered if putting the booths at the pier A end might make sense since there is more space to play with.

The downside for DAA it would probably mean loosing the corner of the duty free shop to make a corridor for departing pax.

lord lucan

customs officers on duty!!! in the last 12 years and with probably 60 returns through dublin i have only seen customs officers 3 times,amazing how everyone now walks through whatever channel they want as they're usually unmanned,only airport in the world i've ever seen this.:eek:

kona

had just got off a flight from new york last sat morning and all i have to say from the huge que i saw was entirely peoples own fault not customs. stupid ignorant(possibly dislexic) geriatrics and posers, strut into the hall and all head for both marked non-EU now the were irish in this que:eek: along with the yanks. i walked past straight through the EU booth no bother from the gate to baggage hall 5mins max.
this is the peoples stupidity, i hate when people blame their own stupidity on others, fuccking gobsh1tes

therecklessone

kona wrote:

had just got off a flight from new york last sat morning and all i have to say from the huge que i saw was entirely peoples own fault not customs. stupid ignorant(possibly dislexic) geriatrics and posers, strut into the hall and all head for both marked non-EU now the were irish in this que:eek: along with the yanks. i walked past straight through the EU booth no bother from the gate to baggage hall 5mins max.
this is the peoples stupidity, i hate when people blame their own stupidity on others, fuccking gobsh1tes

TBH, if you're going to be so harsh in your criticism of others, you might want to get your facts right. Customs do not run passport control, the GNIB does.

kona

therecklessone wrote:

TBH, if you're going to be so harsh in your criticism of others, you might want to get your facts right. Customs do not run passport control, the GNIB does.

whatever man, im pissed off at this countrys stupidity, new york is a much nicer place and i walked around manhattan no bother at night on my own even around the side streets of times square which are as dodgey as you get there . the people are easy to talk to and very nice, where as here you have junkies on the streets, and scum everywhere.
this country has taken a nose dive in the last 10years,politically and culturally look at the idiots on the road for fcuk sake.
in new york if sombody drops somthing and you pick it up they reply with 'thank you , sir'
do it on henry street you'll prob get ****ing stabbed or called a pr!ck.
im ****ing outa here once i get my degree off this government and by the way alot of my mates feel the same.

अधिनायक

Why are there two sets of Garda passport check booths, one in front of the other in pier A? I think they were both built in the last 12 months.

I faced long queues there for the first time recently (both EU and non-EU) maybe it's just the summer or are they checking more thoroughly?

Maybe the cops are on holiday or ringing in sick. Must be the most boring job on earth sitting in a box, picking on blacks all day. I've seen them playing computer games on their terminals. Every passenger they see has a pissed off look that says 'stop wasting my time, pig'.

Our man in Havana

Is there not a bypass lane at the B gates for UK flights? There was one there the last time I came from the UK.

MrPudding

Bond-007 wrote:

Is there not a bypass lane at the B gates for UK flights? There was one there the last time I came from the UK.

I don't think so. I have had to go past the booths twice now. First time was OK, second was a nightmare.

The queue was way back through the corridor and we had been there for 10 or 15 minutes before the someone appeared to man the "non-EU" booth.

Shambles TBH.

MrP

Our man in Havana

I don't see the reason of having passport/immigration checks on UK flights from within the common travel area. Was that not the whole idea of the CTA, no papers and no checks?

MrPudding

Bond-007 wrote:

I don't see the reason of having passport/immigration checks on UK flights from within the common travel area. Was that not the whole idea of the CTA, no papers and no checks?

Well I don't get checked in Luton, it is off the plane and straight through to the exit. Yet another example of the shambles that is Dublin Airport?

MrP

therecklessone

MrPudding wrote:

Well I don't get checked in Luton, it is off the plane and straight through to the exit. Yet another example of the shambles that is Dublin Airport?

MrP

Thats because you are delivered to a series of gates for domestic/Ireland flights @ Luton, so are clear of immigration immeadiately. Dublin currently has no such facility. Stansted and Manchester stream these passengers through a seperate channel at Border Control.

It is possible that the GNIB want all passengers through Dublin to at least pass through border control, given the high number of transfer passengers through Heathrow inbound to Dublin. In fact, I suspect that is the case.

jlang

I make a point of showing only my boarding card at immigration when I'm travelling between the UK and Ireland (couple of times a year). I generally have my passport in my pocket as I would have used it as ID to check in at the origin but I've never had to pull it out.

kona

Bond-007 wrote:

I don't see the reason of having passport/immigration checks on UK flights from within the common travel area. Was that not the whole idea of the CTA, no papers and no checks?

well not everybody from EU flights are EU citizens.

mackerski

Here's a thought - I can board a ferry from Scotland to Larne and drive into the Republic. Nobody knows. If stopped by the Guards, I'm not obliged to be carrying ID. They can try to satisfy themselves of my identity, but it's pretty much their problem, not mine. In particular, I'm not obliged even to own a passport to enter the country from the UK. I'm also used to the idea of being able to fly or drive through most of Europe without showing papers at all. The purpose (to me as a passenger) of a common travel area is the avoidance of heavy formality at borders.

It's against this background that I'm annoyed to be forced to wait to approach a booth at a "Passport" control just because Dublin airport can't find a way of separating inbound passengers by origin. It isn't like UK-originating flights are a negligible proportion of arrivals or anything.

Dermot

ardmacha

I make a point of showing only my boarding card at immigration when I'm travelling between the UK and Ireland

A boarding card should not be enough. Non EU citizen visas are not valid in both the UK and Ireland, just because you were legally in Britain doesn't mean that you are entitled to come to Dublin. Now there is a strong case that such visas should be valid in both Ireland and UK, but this is not the case. The present situation is not very satisfactory, but it is not just a question of segregating UK passengers.

Our man in Havana

ardmacha wrote:

A boarding card should not be enough. Non EU citizen visas are not valid in both the UK and Ireland, just because you were legally in Britain doesn't mean that you are entitled to come to Dublin. Now there is a strong case that such visas should be valid in both Ireland and UK, but this is not the case. The present situation is not very satisfactory, but it is not just a question of segregating UK passengers.

If that is the case why are there no checks on our land borders with NI?

Victor

mackerski wrote:

They can try to satisfy themselves of my identity, but it's pretty much their problem, not mine.

The can ask you for your identity, if they believe you are lying they can arrest you until such tiem as they can ascertain your identity. Less their problem, more yours.

mackerski

Victor wrote:

The can ask you for your identity, if they believe you are lying they can arrest you until such tiem as they can ascertain your identity. Less their problem, more yours.

Arrest? On what charge? It isn't an offence to travel without ID - if it were, there'd be a standard form issued to all citizens.

Of course, it's easy for me to say all this - I'm pasty white and not to be mistaken for a nasty foreigner.

Dermot

Victor

Sorry, by identity I mean name, address, date of birth.

The charge, if it arose, would probably be providing false information. Also, one can be arrested, but not charged.

mackerski

Victor wrote:

Also, one can be arrested, but not charged.

Indeed - but you can only be arrested in connection with some specific offence that has the potential to lead to a charge.

Dermot

Our man in Havana

Section 30 of the offences against the state act 1939. you can be detained in relation to no specific offence.

parsi

I know Cork is supposedly an independent republic but it browns me off having to queue at immigration in Dlublin after an internal flight..

jjbrien

I flew back from Nottingham last night and the immigration queue was the wrost I have ever seen in Dublin. The queue for immigation was from, the immigration booths all the way down the long corridor of pier A to just past the duty free shop. I would say there must have been at least 2000 people or more queueing for immigation. For 30 mins the queue did not move untill alot of people started shouting then the queue started to move. When I got up near the immigation boths only 2 of them was open. I noticed atr the end of the travelator there were two guards standing there one seemed to be a senior guard and another guard. They seem to be making sure nobody tried to get out via the departures area. They just standed there looking at all the people queueing for immigation.

I think last night the situation hit boiling point if people had been made to wait any longer there would have been a riot. I have never seen this kind situation at immigration in any other county and i travel quite a bit. To make matters worse when i got out to the taxi rank the queue there must have been 1000 people queing for taxis. I myself took the shuttle bus to the lon term car park beside alssa and then got a taxi quickly from the old airport road. Dublin airport is now finally out of control and something needs to be done.

Sarsfield

I flew back from Gatwick on Tuesday arriving about 11pm. Ran all the way from the new prefab gates to get past as many people as possible. Still ended up queueing for about 15 minutes. This was a Tuesday night at 11pm :rolleyes: And all 4 booths were open.

I was so frustrated as well as exhausted after my little jog (beads of sweat running down red face) that the immigration guy must have been suspicious and asked me a couple of questions before letting me through :eek:

Our man in Havana

Whats needed is a bypass lane for internal/UK arrivals. How hard is it to do that?

Alun

Bond-007 wrote:

Whats needed is a bypass lane for internal/UK arrivals. How hard is it to do that?

Depending on the geography of the airport building and the way arrivals gates are allocated, possibly not at all, but not everyone arriving aboard a UK flight is necessarily a UK/IRL/EU citizen. Internal arrivals are a different thing though.

mackerski

Alun wrote:

not everyone arriving aboard a UK flight is necessarily a UK/IRL/EU citizen.

Neither is everyone who crosses the border or arrives on a ferry. Or indeed everyone arriving in Gatwick, Stansted or Heathrow off flights out of Dublin airport. The proper and fair approach is to have different, more lightweight security checks for the common area, with the discretion not to man it at all.

The current situation, let's face it, just pushes abuse of the common area over to other modes of transport which, by their nature, can't be effectively controlled. Which is better - to have today's situation, where any illegal immigrant with sense will arrive by car over the border, or a discretionary check coupled with analysis of passenger manifests to help spot likely chancers?

Dermot

ardmacha

The best thing to do is to have the same checks on all points of entry into the country, however as the British are running Larne, Belfast airport etc this may not be possible. Failing this, the common travel area could be made a bit more common by allowing persons legally in Britain to come to Ireland for a short period without having to get a new visa (and vv), perhaps with some requirement to register. You could require people to carry passports when flying to Britain and have the airlines check their status, most Irish people have passports nowadays and most of these bring them on UK flights. If this is done airlines can be fined etc and passenger manifests would give some indication of the situation.

Andrew Duffy

jjbrien wrote:

I have never seen this kind situation at immigration in any other county and i travel quite a bit.

It happens; all it takes is for someone to call in sick and a big plane to come in late and you have a queue. I was in one in Barbados that filled the entire arrivals hall and took over an hour to get through. It was caused by three 747s and a 777 landing pretty much at once. Staggeringly, even after that delay there was another half-hour delay for the luggage to come out.

jjbrien

I landed in Toronto Canada on a 777, a Korean 747 landed at the same time aslo two 767's and serveal 737 all came in at the same time we were done with immigation and customs in less than 20 mins. It can be done bu having a big immigation hall like they have in Toronto, San Fransico and other big airports

HelterSkelter

I flew in last Sunday night from the UK. There was a much bigger queue than usual. The problem was that they didn't have a dedicated lane open for EU passports (which they always used to do). This means that EU passport holders had to queue in the same queue as non-EU citizens were getting the Spanish Inquisition at the booths. Usually with the EU passport holders lane open all the EU passport holders can whiz through.

HelterSkelter

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/moving_country/moving_abroad/common_travel_area_between_ireland_and_the_UK.html?search=common+travel+area

The Common Travel Area means that there are no passport controls in operation for Irish and UK citizens travelling between the two countries. Since 1997, some controls are in effect on arrivals in Ireland from the UK but this does not mean that you are required to carry your Irish or UK passport with you when you travel between the countries. You must, however, carry an acceptable form of photo-identification, examples of which are:

* A valid passport
* A driver's licence with photo
* An international student card
* A national ID card
* A bus pass with photo
* A Garda ID with photo
* A work ID with photo

The Common Travel Area also involves some co-operation on matters relating to immigration issues. An alien, for example, may be refused permission to enter Ireland if it is his or her intention to travel onwards to the UK and he or she would not qualify for admission to the UK under the (Aliens Amendment) Order, 1975.

Irish Immigration Officers have the power to carry out checks on people arriving in the State from the UK and to refuse them entry to the State on the same grounds as apply to people arriving from outside the Common Travel Area. These checks are carried out selectively.

secret_squirrel

Coming through the other day I noticed that there are two travelators going towards departures at the A gates. One was switched off.

Surely they could do a UK/EU lane only with a little booth at the beginning of the travelator?

However thats probably too easy for the morons at DAA and the GIB.

BendiBus

secret_squirrel wrote:

Coming through the other day I noticed that there are two travelators going towards departures at the A gates. One was switched off.

They're usually both working, and often both are very much needed. IT gets busy in that direction too.

upsfan

dam099 wrote:

He obviously never saw the queues for non-US citizens at many US Airports then, I've waited up to 2 hours at Miami and Ft. Lauderdale while US citizens walked by nonchalantly.

Not if you had been coming from Ireland thanks to immigration in Dublin/Shannon. (I realise by the airports quoted that you weren't.) I have been out the front door of Boston Logan literally less than five minutes after stepping off the plane (handbaggage only.) A lot quicker than many EU airports TBH.

The immigration queues do seem worse in Dublin these days, even for EU citizens.

antoinolachtnai

The CTA works ok in practice, at least for white, English-speaking people, but it is basically a legal fiction. The advice on the Oasis site is well-meaning and would work in practice most of the time, but is basically incorrect.

Think about this. There is no need for a passport to travel between the UK and Ireland for UK and Irish citizens. To avail of this privilege, however, you may be required to prove that you are a citizen of the UK or Ireland. The only ways of doing this are with a passport or perhaps a birth certificate in conjunction with a photo id. You need to carry this documentation to guarantee that you can avail of the common travel area. All this stuff about bus passes is bunkum. There is no way that a bus pass is sufficient ID to satisfy a Garda or HM Immigration of your bona fides as an Irish citizen.

It is worth noting that the statutory basis for the CTA is pretty ephemeral. It's more of an administrative convention than anything else.

I have been asked for ID on roads near the border by the British Army in the last year or two.

It is definitely not unknown to be asked for ID when travelling between Northern Ireland and Scotland. The UK authorities have plenty of powers they can rely on to insist on this, if they want to. I understand that there is also some Garda presence at Larne, though I could be wrong about this.

jjbrien

I got off a ferry once at Liverpool coming from Belfast and was asked to fill out a police form and show photo id to the police and this was after the troubles only 4 years ago. So you can get asked for id by police when traveling from the UK to the UK.

MrPudding

upsfan wrote:

Not if you had been coming from Ireland thanks to immigration in Dublin/Shannon. (I realise by the airports quoted that you weren't.) I have been out the front door of Boston Logan literally less than five minutes after stepping off the plane (handbaggage only.) A lot quicker than many EU airports TBH.

The immigration queues do seem worse in Dublin these days, even for EU citizens.

I landed in Newark last Thursday afternoon and from cabin door opening to passing immigration and customs was about 15 minutes.

It seems that if you have proper design, enough people and some cop on then anything is possible.

MrP