Getting caught with pillion passenger

kevthecelt

I have a moped and a provisional licence, the gardai caught me the other day when they were performing a check on the road, he said my insurance could get null and void if he catches me again, is it worth taking my girlfriend on the moped again or is it just too risky??

BaldiePablo

You're not insured to have a pillion so if you catch the Garda in bad form you could be done for no insurance (as it's invalidated by having a pillion). This is 5 points and a snowballs chance in hell of getting a normal insurance quote in the next 5 years .... wouldnt be very nice!

faceman

OP no offence but its that kind of behavious that is causing high insurances rates for us all when accidents happen. Where you even wearing protective gear?

kevthecelt

Of course we were, i didnt realise how serious it was, 5 points, ive only had the moped for less than a month so needless to say i wont be doing it again, cheers lads

sutty

IMO the Irish rules for carrying a pillion are a joke. Some one with 4 to 6 months driving expeance can get their full licance with ease. Then carry a pillion. Its a freaken joke. It should be down to expeance. IE: 1 or 2 years NCB with the insurance company. Bring a cert of this to get a restriction removed from the licance (full or prov). Remember a peace of paper doesn't make you a better rider. Expeance does! weather it be self leaned or instructed apon. But to be able to take a joke of a test and then be able to carry someone on the back is laughable. (which doesn't even touch on the subject of pillions)

Once I am comforable with my bikes. I have carried someone. On the Duc, the only person has been the G/F Last night I took her home to Waterford. (from Dublin) I have built up expeance and have gotten to know how the bike handles. But in terms of a smaller bike or moped. I would say you are more likely to be stopped by the cops on the off chance you are still on a prov. That said. I have knowen people on Prov and they where pulled over for driving in bus lanes or something else. But nothing was ever said about the pillion on the back.

madrab

yep, no sympathy from me either

its people like you, people with no insurance that drives up our premiums

murphaph

Fair play to the guard. Anyway, the OP seems to have learned his lesson. Just do your drivin test op and you can carry the missus legally.

pbergin

kevthecelt wrote:

is it worth taking my girlfriend on the moped again or is it just too risky??

I really hope you dont have to ask.
Dont carry anyone until you get a full licence, as previously said, you are not covered and could be done for no insurance, if you caused an accident its possible the insurance would void your policy and you really dont want that to happen

Victor

Its not worth it whether you have an accident or not. The last thing you want to do is maim someone and have no insurance.

If she wants a ride, stick to your bed and even then, remember your protective gear.

MunsterCycling

Yet if the Moped has a pillion seat then he has to insure for them???

subway

MunsterCycling wrote:

Yet if the Moped has a pillion seat then he has to insure for them???

in english?

Dub13

Here is a question I never taught of on till I read this thread.If someone is driving a 50cc using there full B license can they carry a pillion passenger...?

MunsterCycling

If a bike has a pillion passenger seat then the policy must include them, even if the seat is removed, its the original specs that they go on.

Maybe try reading it a couple of times subway, pretty clear what I meant.

MunsterCycling

How many 50cc machines have a pilion seat? Would at a guess say yes coz they are on a full licence.

Victor

A provisional licence prohibits pillion passengers. Breeching the rules of your licence can invalidate your insurance. That is the point being made.

MunsterCycling

No if you look more closely he isn't licenced to ride with a pillion he IS insured if the bike has a seat, althougth IMO he (not you OP) should be put off the road for stuff like this.

Insurence still has to cover you even if you break the law. (Although they will try to wriggle out of it)

robinph

Dub13 wrote:

Here is a question I never taught of on till I read this thread.If someone is driving a 50cc using there full B license can they carry a pillion passenger...?

I had wondered the same thing as I thought that my full car license only gave me a permanent provisional category for the 50cc's, but it is actually a full 50cc license category so I don't see how it wouldn't allow you to carry a pillon if there is a seat.

Just need to figure out which of the 'f', 'k', 'l' and 'n' categorys are for what and then I can make use of my full license for a tractor, combine, mower or road roller as well.

madrab

The pillion will be insure under EU law, however the driver, the moped & whatever is crashed into wont be insured

subway

MunsterCycling wrote:

If a bike has a pillion passenger seat then the policy must include them, even if the seat is removed, its the original specs that they go on.

Maybe try reading it a couple of times subway, pretty clear what I meant.

i read it slowly numerous times,
"he has to insure for them" makes no sense.

who is "he",
do you mean "he" has to provide insurance for them?
the insurance company?, the driver? the pillion?

if you not licensed to carry a pillion, then youre not insured to carry one.
pretty simple.

do you drive a bike, so you know the difference between carrying a pillion and not?

if you drive a bike, then you have insurance,
read your policy,
theres rakeloadsd of things your not covered to do.

MunsterCycling

subway wrote:

i read it slowly numerous times,
"he has to insure for them" makes no sense.

Are you following the thread? Them refers to the PILLION

subway wrote:

who is "he",
do you mean "he" has to provide insurance for them?
the insurance company?, the driver? the pillion?

Think you mustn't have had your weetabix this morning

subway wrote:

if you not licensed to carry a pillion, then youre not insured to carry one.
pretty simple.

Have you tried asking an insurance company for a policy without cover for a pillion? Regardless of what you are licenced for. You'll get some interesting answers.

subway wrote:

do you drive a bike, so you know the difference between carrying a pillion and not?

if you drive a bike, then you have insurance,
read your policy,
theres rakeloadsd of things your not covered to do.

Have full licence for A and B for many years, and yes there are many exclusions on the policy documents that we all get but the cover for a pillion (which is the topic of this thread IIRC) is not one of them.

Idleater

MunsterCycling wrote:

Have you tried asking an insurance company for a policy without cover for a pillion? Regardless of what you are licenced for. You'll get some interesting answers....

....but the cover for a pillion (which is the topic of this thread IIRC) is not one of them.

It is very possible to get cover without a pillion.

You could go for one of these
Or perhaps something more mundane run of the mill like these monoposto bikes.

L.

subway

munstercycling,

your sentence, in terms of the english language, doesnt make sense,
and i still cant understand it, my apologies.
ill assume you mean the insurance company is required by law to provide mandatory insurance cover for a pillion, even in the event that the driver is unlicensed[in terms of carrying a pillion]?

i have never asked for insurance without a pillion as i dont want or need it.
my argument stands that if i am doing somethign illegal then my insurance company will use that as an excuse to invalidate my insurance, or at least limit their liability.
the same as would happen if i was speeding / drinking or otherwise acting recklessly.

the original question relates to the implications of driving without a pillion,
im assuming penalty points and a fine are the order of the day and that will affect any future quotes, regardless of an accident or the previous cover held.

MunsterCycling

nereid wrote:

It is very possible to get cover without a pillion.

You could go for one of these
Or perhaps something more mundane run of the mill like these monoposto bikes.

L.

Just to clear this up for you nereid, yes you can get insurance without pillion cover IF the bike doesn't have a seat, if it does then you cannot get a policy excluding pillion cover!

MC

Idleater

MunsterCycling wrote:

Just to clear this up for you nereid, yes you can get insurance without pillion cover IF the bike doesn't have a seat, if it does then you cannot get a policy excluding pillion cover!

MC

Yeah, Sorry, that post was more in reference to the likes of the OP who might be interested in the monoposto mopeds, which might help bring down their insurance.

With the side benifit of them reducing all our policies because they won't have anyone riding on the back illegally.

No, Scratch that. That'll never happen. Anto, giz a backor on yer mopedo...

:rolleyes:

L.

MunsterCycling

It would be nioce though if we were allowed to have the choice like we used to have... Ahh the EU has much to answer for...

Oryx

OP like has been said, under eu law your pillion is insured as a third party regardless of your licence. Legally you cannot carry a pillion, but people like you did, said pillions were getting injured, and the law was changed and rates went thru the roof. You can be done for it, and an endorsement on your licence would affect any future insurance quotes. Whether your insurance is automatically null and void is open to question. Ive seen cases where its paid out no problem. Possibly would have to be argued in court. Im another one who wishes you and others like you wouldnt carry pillions because when you have an accident your costing us all money!

MunsterCycling

KatieK wrote:

I'm another one who wishes you and others like you wouldnt carry pillions because when you have an accident your costing us all money!

Here here.

MC

sutty

KatieK wrote:

Im another one who wishes you and others like you wouldnt carry pillions because when you have an accident your costing us all money!

But thats not true now is it. As the insurance company wont insure him or the pillion, so it doesn't cost us anything. If he is to blame, then the other driver would have to clame agenst the goverenment body that deals with uninsured clames. Which if I remember doesn't cost the insurance companys anything. If he is not at fault. He and the pillion will clame of the other person's insurance. (thats most likely a cager) So again its not costing anything extra to us the bikers. You want to know what is costing us money. Bloody insurance companys. That is it. They will give you all the speal they can think of as to why your insurance has gone up. But end of the day... its because they wanted to.

MunsterCycling

Sutty, where do you think the Gevernment Levy on your policy goes? Into the uninsured drivers fund, and yes he will be covered and can be claimed against as the insurance is still valid even if a rider breaks the law.

eg. You are hit by another vechicle that runs a red light, the driver broke the law by driving through the red light but their insurance still has to compensate you all the same. Insurance polices are not automatically voided because you or someone else broke the law.

Hotblack Desiato

sutty wrote:

But thats not true now is it. As the insurance company wont insure him or the pillion, so it doesn't cost us anything. If he is to blame, then the other driver would have to clame agenst the goverenment body that deals with uninsured clames.

Wrong. The Motor Insurer's Bureau pays out when there is no insurance - not when there is a policy but the conditions attaching to it are broken. The insurer still has to pay out. However they can then sue the policyholder for their loss.

Which if I remember doesn't cost the insurance companys anything.

:rolleyes:
No. Not directly. Motor Insurer's Bureau is paid for by our premiums. So we all pay for it.
The insurance companies pay for nothing because they have no money, only ours.
Just like the government has no money, only ours...

If he is not at fault. He and the pillion will clame of the other person's insurance. (thats most likely a cager) So again its not costing anything extra to us the bikers.

PIAB or no PIAB, personal injury awards are still very high here, and it doesn't take many serious injury cases (e.g. permanent disability or paralysis) where the rider is at fault to add up to millions of euro.

The chances of the rider being at fault increase dramatically if they are very inexperienced. Like it or not we can't blame cagers for ALL bike accidents.

OP, I think you've got the message by now, carrying a passenger when you have so little experience of bikes and so little experience of how to ride safely in traffic is idiotic not just illegal. Hope you've learned your lesson.

Hotblack Desiato

MunsterCycling wrote:

Sutty, where do you think the Gevernment Levy on your policy goes?

The 2% goes straight into the government's coffers - it's just a tax.

People think it goes into the MIB fund for uninsured claims - not so - that's a chunk (~100 euro) out of your premium BEFORE tax, so the government make 2% tax out of that as well.

People also think it goes into a fund to protect us when an insurer goes bust - not so, as we all found out a few years ago the hard way... eventually the UK financial regulator paid out (mostly).

sutty

As I said on the first page. It should be done by a number of NCB to get a restiction removed, that will allow you to ride with a pillion. Just having your full licance means nothing. Sure in theory. You should not have driven on a motorway ether. So the tests a compleat joke the way it is setup.

MunsterCycling

sutty wrote:

As I said on the first page. It should be done by a number of NCB to get a restiction removed, that will allow you to ride with a pillion. Just having your full licance means nothing. Sure in theory. You should not have driven on a motorway ether. So the tests a compleat joke the way it is setup.

Couldn't agree more, Irish standards are terrible. Pity the Fine Fail(ure) Gov we have won't bite the bullet and make CBT for car drivers who have yet to pass the test (well you have to start somewhere) compulsory. Will be an empty brown paper bag day in politics that sees that happen.

pbergin

sutty wrote:

As I said on the first page. It should be done by a number of NCB to get a restiction removed, that will allow you to ride with a pillion. Just having your full licance means nothing. Sure in theory. You should not have driven on a motorway ether. So the tests a compleat joke the way it is setup.

What happens if your bike get stolen? you claim for the cost of a replacement bike and loose you ncb.
So then you cant carry pillion because your last bike was stolen!!!!

sutty

I dont know anyone that has ever clamed for a stolen bike. Plus most people on have third party anyway

murphaph

That 2% levy was introduced in 1984 to prop up the ailing PMPA! It is still being paid today ffs.

spockety

Third party claims from pillion passengers who are being ferried by provisional license holders make up the majority of insurance payouts for motorcycle policies.

How's that for a statistic?

MunsterCycling

Well its not really a statistic as there is no percentage or source given but I'd agree with it.

sutty

spockety wrote:

Third party claims from pillion passengers who are being ferried by provisional license holders make up the majority of insurance payouts for motorcycle policies.

How's that for a statistic?

Any source for that statement?

Hotblack Desiato

sutty wrote:

As I said on the first page. It should be done by a number of NCB to get a restiction removed, that will allow you to ride with a pillion. Just having your full licance means nothing. Sure in theory. You should not have driven on a motorway ether. So the tests a compleat joke the way it is setup.

Yes the test isn't great but it's all we have.
More giveaways to provisional licence holders aren't the answer.
We need much shorter test waiting times, enforcement of the restrictions on provisional licence holders, and - yes - a tougher, longer, more realistic and probably multi-part test. For all classes of road user not just bikes. And FFS get the bike testers onto bikes.
If the government was at all serious about road safety these issues would have been given the highest possible priority years ago.
Don't hold your breath though.