When Greyhounds don't win

RandomOne

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2272175,00.html

I hope they prosecute every inch of his land out of him.

fitzyfitzboobs

Banned

po0k

RSPCA wrote:

The RSPCA has previously expressed “grave concerns” about the fate of up to 12,000 retired greyhounds that go missing every year. A spokesman said: “There is no justification for killing these animals simply because they can’t do their job any more.”

Logan's Run

Irish-Lass

fitzyfitzboobs wrote:

So what if he kills the dogs, greyhounds are bred for racing if they are no good then do away with them, its always been the case, are you going to keep 10,000 useless greyhounds as pets?
Didn't think so.

"so what if he kills the dogs".........its comments like that that have this country the way it is when it comes to animal cruelty.

fitzyfitzboobs

What do you mean "the country is the way it is" if you had read the post correctly you would have seen that these deaths occoured in England (a different country to Ireland)

It is regrettable that so many dogs are put down but Racing greyhounds are short-term investments. Even the fastest dogs only race for a few years, and are expected to generate enough profit during that time to make up for the initial investment for their food and housing up to that point. One champion dog can be extremely profitable.

Often, owners will purchase multiple greyhounds in the hopes that one will generate enough profit to compensate financially for all the others. Animal Cruelty is a different matter to putting down a greyhound, while both are regrettable perhaps only those involved in greyhounds can have an understanding of shooting the less good ones.

Arcadian

Sadly, i do believe your serious

RandomOne

Sadly, I do believe he's just perfectly illustrated the dog racing mentality.

peasant

That's why I don't go to greyhound races, I don't bet on greyhounds, i don't support the "industry" with one cent (other than the percentage of my tax money that the governement spends on the racing industry against my will :mad: ).

Same applies to horse racing

fitzyfitzboobs

All I'm serious about is that from what I have seen, if people have a lot of greyhounds that are no good (i.e do not win races) then these will invariably not be as well looked after as dogs that are winning races, it may not sound nice but dogs that dont win races face the bullet (i have never shot a dog by the way before you go making assumptions). If you talk to people involved in greyhound racing, most of them feel the same way but thats not to say that every dog that fails to win a race is out down, some are and some aren't again it depends in the individual.

fitzyfitzboobs

Horse racing and greyhound racing are two seperate industries, it is not really fair to compare them.

I have yet to hear of anybody shooting a horse for not winning a race, horses have more uses than greyhounds when they stop racing i.e they can be used in riding schools or bred.

SusieBelle

fitzyfitzboobs wrote:

What do you mean "the country is the way it is" if you had read the post correctly you would have seen that these deaths occoured in England (a different country to Ireland)

It may have happened in England but your opinion that grey's are just a comodity and deserve no respect regardless of where they are is a perfect example of why there is so much cruelty in this country. You have no respect for the life of the greyhound. Once it's of no racing use it should be killed??

Do you feel the same way about people who for one reason or another canot contribute to society?

Garth

peasant wrote:

That's why I don't go to greyhound races, I don't bet on greyhounds, i don't support the "industry" with one cent (other than the percentage of my tax money that the governement spends on the racing industry against my will :mad: ).

You can't be serious? The government funds dog racing? @##$! bad enough it's a poor excuse for "sport" but i can't believe it's actively FUNDED by the government.

Our government is crap.

peasant

Quoted from:
http://www.igb.ie/about_us.aspx

The Irish Greyhound Board - Bord na gCon - is a commercial semi-state body which is responsible for the control and development of the greyhound industry in Ireland.

The Board was established under special legislation by the Irish government in 1958. The Greyhound Industry Act (1958) gave the Board wide powers to regulate all aspects of greyhound racing in Ireland including the licensing of the different tracks, the issuing of permits to officials, bookmakers, trainers and the implementation of the rules of racing.

The Irish Greyhound Board has licensed a total of seventeen tracks in the republic, of which nine are owned and controlled by the Board. The remainder are owned and operated by private enterprise. There are also a further three privately owned stadia in Northern Ireland.

The Board operates Tote facilities at all greyhound tracks and applies an on-course levy on all bookmaker’s betting. These levies together with gate receipts have funded the industry and allows the Board to:

Supplement prize money at all levels of greyhound racing.

Provide development loans and grants to greyhound tracks in order to enable them to improve their facilities.

To advertise and market the industry on both a national and international level.

Develop and improve greyhound stadia nationwide

boomerang

Thirty per cent of the current government's budget for sport goes to the greyhound and horse racing industries.

And to clarify a point, the reason ex-racehorses aren't destroyed at the end of their careers is because if they have been successful, they command massive stud fees and so continue to bring in revenue for the owner.

A racehorse is bred and trained to race around a track - they don't find second careers as riding school mounts or showjumpers.

fits

boomerang wrote:

A racehorse is bred and trained to race around a track - they don't find second careers as riding school mounts or showjumpers.

Wrong! I do concede that some are put to sleep, but quite a lot are rehomed as riding horses (not necessarily riding school mounts). I help out in a racing stables and the horses in it are very sensible, grounded and well trained animals.

www.ihwt.ie

SuzyS1972

I beleive a lot of this is due to indescriminate breeding of these animals.
People are just breeding tonnes of greys in the hope that one will be a winner - breeding should be more controlled and regulated.

Lets not forget that a huge proportion of these dogs shot in the UK would have been bred and come from Ireland.

Just like any idiot sticks 2 Boxers or 2 West Highland Terriers together in the hope of making a quick buck - no thought is being given to what defects are being passed onto another 6 dogs - I bet 80% of dogs in classified ads have not had a healthcheck before breeding - have not been carefully chosen to breed for their good looks , perfect breed standards, clean health and balanced temperament.

Nah sure stick 2 together , flog the pups and feck the poor unfortunate dog that is the result and ends up suffering skin allergies , ear problems etc for the rest of it's life.

I'm picking these 2 breeds as they seem to be the most popular dog of the day and 2 of the breeds I regularly see to be as far removed from breed standards as is possible yet claiming to be pure bred ..............

peasant

Never mind how greyhounds are bred ....

The whole "sport" is utterly pointless.

A handful of people make a living (if they're lucky) out of disregarding animals rights from birth to (mostly premature) death.

Overbreeding, cruel training, insufficient care and housing, doping, overmedication, neglect, injury,cruel "disposal" ...you name it, it happens to greyhounds in the name of "sport"

Ban the whole thing, I say

SuzyS1972

Yes I went completely OT there.
I agree 100% - I hate greyhound racing - don't support it - try to dis-courage people at work from organising nights at the " dogs " as a social occasion.


I hate the fact that people are overlooking the fact that these are living creatures NOT commodities. They are dogs 1st and foremost and deserve to be treated as such - not some money making object to be passed from pillar to post and end up god knows where.

One of the gentlest breeds I have met and known and one of the most misunderstood breeds too. They are not vicious like people think - they are a sprinting animal so they do not need ooodles of exercise and they do make ideal pets for many people.

Sighthounds are one of the most popular pets in Sweden - where I beleive they do race greyhounds as the dogs enjoy it but betting on the races is illegal. Perhaps that would be an option here - or am I fooling myself........

Padangel

SuzyS1972 wrote:

Sighthounds are one of the most popular pets in Sweden - where I beleive they do race greyhounds as the dogs enjoy it but betting on the races is illegal. Perhaps that would be an option here - or am I fooling myself........

Yes, there is greyhound racing here in Sweden but you cannot bet on the races. The owners race their dogs just for the sake of watching these beautiful dogs sprint, simply because the dogs absolutely love to run. Winning is not important, the main thing is that the dogs have fun. And then go home and sleep in a comfy sofa in the livingroom the rest of the day, and in it's owner's bed at night!!

So many Irish greyhounds go from the Irish tracks via rescue centers to new homes in Sweden (and Italy, and Germany, and the US) as nobody in Ireland wants to adopt them. Same goes for lurchers and other sighthounds, most people in Ireland who wants a lurcher wants it for hunting, not as a pet.

fits

Padangel wrote:

So many Irish greyhounds go from the Irish tracks via rescue centers to new homes in Sweden (and Italy, and Germany, and the US) as nobody in Ireland wants to adopt them. Same goes for lurchers and other sighthounds, most people in Ireland who wants a lurcher wants it for hunting, not as a pet.

Arent we fools... they are *the best pets ever*

I dont know any greyhound trainers so I'm speaking with ignorance here, but greyhounds seem to get an awfully raw deal in comparison with racehorses especially considering their wonderful gentle disposition.

Irish-Lass

I think to most people when they think of greyhounds they see the picture of it running around the track trying to get its teeth into a stuffed rabbit, people think they will bite, snap, attach small children, small pets.

I had never met any greyhounds until I took one out of Ashton Pound and she stayed in my house for the day, she was what I can only describe as "a lady", compared to my 2 mad mutleys.

Last year there was a gathering in the Phoenix Park of people who had greyhounds/lurchers who were pets some of the rescues brought greyhounds/lurchers that were looking for homes and people were genuinely amazed that these animals were out on leads like normal dogs playing, walking, running etc its was a sight to behold.

The groups like who Padangel is with are a lifeline to greyhound/lurchers (and other dogs) in Ireland as they go to wonderful homes. Very few rescues take them in over here cause they know they will be left with them for awhile. My friend has a greyhound and a lurcher and if nothing else the pair of them have made me fall in love with the breed, and one day I will have a grey or a lurcher of my own.

Wokie

Irish-Lass wrote:

The groups like who Padangel is with are a lifeline to greyhound/lurchers (and other dogs) in Ireland as they go to wonderful homes. Very few rescues take them in over here cause they know they will be left with them for awhile. My friend has a greyhound and a lurcher and if nothing else the pair of them have made me fall in love with the breed, and one day I will have a grey or a lurcher of my own.

I look forward to having a grey or lurcher myself as well:) Love them!!Unfortunately I work with a guy who owns greyhounds for racing and thinks nothing of making comments about shooting them if they break a leg:mad: :mad: I must find out what will happen to them when he decides to no longer race them. I dread to think.....:( Althoug at least if I know maybe I could have some say on what might happen to them?

Danes

I have an ex-coursing lurcher and she's so sweet natured that she gets bullied by my other dogs if I dont watch out for her. She's highly intelligent and spotlessly clean and has a gorgeous quirky personality. Its such a shame that lurchers have a bad name because they truly are wonderful pets.

golden

I know someone who breeds and trains greyhounds if they dont perform the person kills them I have talked to him about it and he said they are traceable if the greyhound is caught with people lamping they will trace the dog back to him!!! you can not win.

It appears to be the case if the animal is not making any money it gets killed whether or not its a horse/greyhound or any other creature!!

junkyard

I don't have much time for anyone who relies on animals to make their living tbh. I don't think they have much respect for them. I've heard of dog breeders who will kill pups if they don't have the right markings or right features. I read the article on the Sunday Times on Sunday too and was horrified to see the pictures of the two greyhounds that were killed, such beautiful healthy dogs. I'm sure something can be done to regulate the breeding of these dogs and limit the numbers being bred. All that matters is money to some people and those people shouldn't be allowed to keep any animals.

doctor evil

"I don`t have much time for anyone who relies on animals to make their living"

Does that include vets? ;~)

Jules

i would hope not, then ya dont like doctors much either

fits

junkyard wrote:

I don't have much time for anyone who relies on animals to make their living tbh. I don't think they have much respect for them.

Argh!

That is just a ridiculous fecking statement. My blood is boiling... You've just condemned every farmer, riding school owner, Vet etc in the country.
Ridiculous generalisations like this really dont help. Treating an animal like a cuddly pet, and treating it with respect is not the same thing!

RandomOne

I resisted answering. Thank you for putting it so well. :mad:

peasant

fits wrote:

. Treating an animal like a cuddly pet, and treating it with respect is not the same thing!

I would agree with that bit, though.

Carb

Am I the only one that didn't take what Junkyard said literally. I would assume that he was referring to dog breeding, greyhound racing etc. As somebody who has posted on here asking what was best to feed his dogs, I seriously doubt he would refrain from using a vet if care was needed. Considering he went on to refer to dog breeding and grehounds, I would have thought people could have appllied a bit of common sense. To stretch his comment to say that he's condeming farmers is just nonsense.

fits

Carb wrote:

To stretch his comment to say that he's condeming farmers is just nonsense.

Based on some of his previous posts, I'd imagine that he was condemning farmers. I'm getting tired of the 'all farmers treat their animals like poo' argument, and I hear so much of it.

For the record, I grew up on a farm, I learned everything I know about nature and wildlife from my dad, the cruel farmer. My dad the cruel farmer has reported genuinely cruel (or just plain ignorant) farmers for mistreatment of their animals... And I own a rescued lurcher!

Carb

fits wrote:

Based on some of his previous posts, I'd imagine that he was condemning farmers. I'm getting tired of the 'all farmers treat their animals like poo' argument, and I hear so much of it.

I can't say I've read all his posts, including any on farming. I know from other forums that farmers wouldn't be his favoured group based on taxes/subsidies etc, but I haven't seen any based on animal cruelty. Its possible that he could come back and say I'm wrong, but I'd imagine that in the context of this thread, and the post that he made, he was referring to dog breeding/grehounds etc.

fits

junkyard wrote:

I don't have much time for anyone who relies on animals to make their living tbh.

Maybe you're right Carb, but it was a pretty general statement. Anyway this is gone way off topic, mostly my fault...

I know little about greyhound racing... I just dont understand how anyone who handles these animals daily doesnt get attached to them. I dont understand how they are disposed of in the way they are... Is it that I've heard only bad press about the industry and there are lots of good eggs out there who treat their dogs well... I just dont get it!

I'd love to bring my fella to races like they have in Sweden... he'd absolutely love it.

peasant

Fits

Maybe look at it this way ...someone who loves animals and treats them properly can still be a successful and economically viable farmer ...but never a successful and economically viable participant in the greyhound racing "industry".

fits

peasant wrote:

Fits

Maybe look at it this way ...someone who loves animals and treats them properly can still be a successful and economically viable farmer ...but never a successful and economically viable participant in the greyhound racing "industry".

Why? Because pumping them up with steroids is necessary for them to win??? Why cant you treat these dogs properly and still win races?
And aren't a lot of greyhound trainers part-timer hobby people?

peasant

The economically viable bit is the crucial one...

If you don't want to throw away large sums of money year after year just to see some of your dogs running, but want to actually make some money ...then you need a large proportion of winners.

In order to get those in large proportions you will a) need to enhance the performance of your good dogs (legally or otherwise) and b) dispose of costly non-winners quickly (in varying degrees of cruelty).

I would have no problem whatsoever with some greyhound owners organizing races just for fun.

But as soon as the whole thing get's turned into a "business", the animals rights fall by the wayside.

fits

peasant wrote:

But as soon as the whole thing get's turned into a "business", the animals rights fall by the wayside.

But it shouldnt have to... Just as it shouldnt have to in farming or horse racing. You'd be pretty stupid not to acknowledge that mistreatment goes on in all three of these enterprises.. and it would seem particularly so in greyhound racing but it certainly cant be everyone involved can it? This is why I'm slow to subscribe to the idea that banning it is the only solution.

Another thing, and I know I'm going to be absolutely rounded on for this.. but I'd personally rather see greyhounds being humanely euthanized than sold to spain. Most of all I'd like people here to get over what ever it is they have against greyhounds.

peasant

This is why I'm slow to subscribe to the idea that banning it is the only solution.

It would be the easiest, quickest and cleanest solution.

Ban all greyhound racing for profit ...i.e no price money, no bets.

All that would be left would be a few real enthusiasts running their dogs for fun ...and anyone who would want to watch could do so.

I doubt that many specators would turn up, though. After all, without betting a greyhound race is a fairly boring "spectacle".

EGAR

Greyhounds killed for losing races
Daniel Foggo

Death was price of poor results


TWO greyhounds whose deaths are at the centre of a scandal that has engulfed the dog-racing industry were shot because they had performed poorly a few days earlier.
The dogs, whose names are now known to be Clash Nitro and Rent a Flyer, were pictured by an undercover photographer for The Sunday Times being led to their deaths by David Smith, the industry’s unofficial “executioner”. He is said to have killed up to 10,000 greyhounds over 15 years.



Smith was photographed just moments later pushing the greyhounds’ bodies in a wheelbarrow to bury them behind his house. Both dogs were less than three years old when they were killed this month.

It has now been established that the dogs were considered worthless by their owners, Gillian Young, a licensed trainer, and her husband Graeme, assistant racing manager at Pelaw Grange greyhound track in Co Durham.

Each dog had won races earlier this year but after they under-performed at a meeting three weeks ago the Youngs decided they did not want to continue racing them. The couple were told by a rehoming charity three days later that they would have to wait about a week before the greyhounds could be taken.

Instead, the next morning Clash Nitro and Rent a Flyer were taken to be shot in the head by Smith, a builders’ merchant from Seaham, Co Durham.

Their deaths were the subject of an exposé two weeks ago by The Sunday Times which showed how trainers were resorting to the mass slaughter of greyhounds no longer considered fast enough to race.

The revelations have shaken the greyhound industry and led to a government inquiry. Last week there were fresh calls for the animal welfare bill before parliament to be amended to subject trainers and owners to external regulation.

The Sunday Times secretly filmed the dogs being taken by Gillian Young and her father Sid Fenwick, also a licensed trainer, to be put down by Smith, who was then shown burying them in his back garden with a mechanical digger.

He told an undercover reporter it took him three years to fill the one-acre plot with bodies.

At the time the identities of Fenwick, the Youngs and the names of both dogs were unknown. Last week, however, the trainers’ details emerged and both Fenwick and Gillian Young were suspended by the National Greyhound Racing Club (NGRC), the sport’s governing body, pending an inquiry that could see them banned.

Fenwick claimed he had been given the dogs by an unnamed man and did not know their identities, but their full histories have now been established.

Each illustrates how greyhounds are exploited to provide cheap entertainment and betting fodder before commonly being killed once their usefulness has ended.

For Clash Nitro, a male brindle, life began on November 1 2003 in Ireland. His potential was apparent early on. In his first race at Youghal stadium in Co Cork on July 5, 2005, Clash Nitro came second. Several more races followed, culminating in another second at Newbridge, Co Kildare, on December 3 that year.

Less than three weeks later Clash Nitro made the trip to Britain after being sold to Graeme Young. Young knew a good prospect when he saw one. He is the breeder of Laser Beam, a champion that is one of the top racers in Britain.