Advice?

soupie

Long Story Short

I was on holiday in Spain 3 weeks ago, my phone mobile phone was robbed from me on the Saturday but I didnt know it was gone until Monday as the battery was dead. I rang my operator and they advised that they had just cancelled the phone due to irregular activity. The thief had ran up a bill of over 2500 euro in the space of 48 hours.

The problem starts here the phone company are now telling me I need to pay this bill. I on the other hand think this is not right!

I think i have a case on the following basis, I had a pin number set up on the sim card that they needed to break to use the card, they managed to do this which i feel is a security issue with their cards. The second is that I had a 100 euro limit set up on my account to stop me from running up a bill. While in Portugal 2 weeks earlier and in the UK a couple of weeks previous this 100 euro limit kicked in and all calls where barred until I paid the bill.

The network are asking that I pay the bill on the following basis, I did not notify them on the Saturday when the phone was taken. The fact that the pin was broking is not their responsibilty and sometimes the 100 euro limit does not kick in, the foreign network delay sending the bills accross.

I am peeved because the 100 limit seems to work for me and my friends everytime and it is not up to the customer to monitor this.

Do you think I should pay this Bill or should i refuse to pay as they have let me down with their security. Should they not monitor use like a credt card?

If u've had this problem before please let me know how u got on!

Day-wanna-wonga

It's your fault, and you will have to pay, but if you had a €100 limit, then legally you don't have to pay more than €100 if the operator let you exceed the limit.

Doctor DooM

If you didn't report it and you don't have insurance you're pretty shafted legally, as far as I know. I work for a network

The pin is irrelivant, nothing to do with the network- its just a lucky guess/ the pin had been deactivated.

I happen to know at least two Irish networks have that trouble, but thats your best defence with the limit.

Ruu_Old

I don't think you have much of a case OP. The pin does not matter like the other posters have pointed out, you set the pin and not your network. Its a shame you didn't notice it missing sooner.

delly

Would holiday insurance cover any of this by chance?

Doctor DooM

I think only phone insurance does but even then it needs to be reported in the first 24 hours...

Morlar

#Elites wrote:

on the other hand, how the feck do you spend 2.5k in 48hours on CALLS and texts!?!?!?

I think its the scam - thieves get commission by dialling premium rate lines and leaving the line open indefinitely. The bogus company claims 2.5k which (I think) the regular operator has to pay - they pass this back to the customer.

Doctor DooM

Shouldn't this be moved to the mobiles/pda's forum?

soupie

The 100 euro limit I feel has me covered but legally I'm not sure? Its worked everyother time and there response is 'sometimes it takes time to kick in when abroad' but come on 2600 euro later?

As for the pin theres not a hope in hell they guessed it as it is 5 digits and would be blocked after 3 attempts.

If i didnt pay it do u think my credit rating would be affected? Appreciate the comments

Doctor DooM

Regardless the pin doesn't matter. its nothing to do with the network

Also I would bet there's some small print about the credit limit, my network doesnt use them because they tend to be unreliable.

I have heard of debts being passed on to collection companies...

challengemaster

soupie wrote:

As for the pin theres not a hope in hell they guessed it as it is 5 digits and would be blocked after 3 attempts.

i think if you try 2 attempts, turn off the phone, turn it back on you can try again. not sure.Also i'd say you would have good grounds on the limit thing aslong as you can prove it was active at the time.

Doctor DooM

I'm betting there's some kind of small print on the limit with reference to roaming. If I was the OP I'd check that out first before doing anything rash.

jimmycrackcorm

SDooM wrote:

If you didn't report it and you don't have insurance you're pretty shafted legally, as far as I know. I work for a network

The pin is irrelivant, nothing to do with the network- its just a lucky guess/ the pin had been deactivated.

I happen to know at least two Irish networks have that trouble, but thats your best defence with the limit.

Quite right on the pin as it could even be argued the the op gave someone his pin or it was not activated on the sim. However the op has contracted with the network to block over €100 of calls on his phone and they failed in this. Although this condition was probably not written under the terms and considitions, never the less the network has shown that they have already complied with this and the customer can reasonably expect that if his phone is stolen that this condition would protect him up to €100.

In this case it is not the ops responsibility that the network has a credit management problem with foreign operators. Given the extortionate profits that networks make with roaming calls, I doubt that any judge would support them in a case. I'd advise the op to fight this tooth and nail. Had he not had the €100 limit imposed then he'd bescrewed but he is well covered.

soupie

yeah I'll take a look at this tomorrow. Its probably in small print some where. What about monitoring the account for irregular activity like ringing Morrocco a 100 times and ringing premium(sxx) numbers. Its a lot of money just to say ok I'll pay.

Doctor DooM

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

Quite right on the pin as it could even be argued the the op gave someone his pin or it was not activated on the sim. However the op has contracted with the network to block over €100 of calls on his phone and they failed in this. Although this condition was probably not written under the terms and considitions, never the less the network has shown that they have already complied with this and the customer can reasonably expect that if his phone is stolen that this condition would protect him up to €100.

Not arguing with this at all dude, I was just pointing out network might have covered their asses by saying this service is not guarenteed in the contract while roaming.

FranknFurter

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

the network has shown that they have already complied with this and the customer can reasonably expect that if his phone is stolen that this condition would protect him up to €100.

In this case it is not the ops responsibility that the network has a credit management problem with foreign operators. Given the extortionate profits that networks make with roaming calls, I doubt that any judge would support them in a case. I'd advise the op to fight this tooth and nail. Had he not had the €100 limit imposed then he'd bescrewed but he is well covered.

I agree. You should only agree to pay the amount that you were told you were never going to be able to go over, they took on that responsibility.

Problem is, you really should be very careful re your credit status being affected. Similiar happened to me (not with a mobile phone company), but even when the issue had been settled they still ****ed up my credit rating, and that takes 7 years to clear.

Means you cant get loans, credit card, easi-payment terms with any store etc for 7 years and believe me, in this day and age, it aint easy to live without those options.

b

Trampas

Where was the rob when it got robbed?

Sam Vimes

challengemaster wrote:

i think if you try 2 attempts, turn off the phone, turn it back on you can try again. not sure.Also i'd say you would have good grounds on the limit thing aslong as you can prove it was active at the time.

nope, that's not right.


op, you'll have to be a pr!ck to sort this out. the network will do whatever you let them get away with but if you kick up enough of a stink they'll back down. they don't need the hassle for what's quite a small amount to them. just keep asking to speak to someone more senior until you get what you want. but don't get really angry. just be firm

Pythia

The reason your 100e limit didn't come into effect was that your phone was abroad. It takes longer for these things to register when abroad, so the phone company wouldn't have known about it for a few days.
I know you say it did kick in when you were in Portugal, but I'd say you were making a lot less calls then, so it was easier to monitor when you were coming up to 100e.

Before someone moans that that should be different, it's also similar for atm cards abroad, you can sometimes withdraw a lot more than your limit, because of the distance factor.

am peeved because the 100 limit seems to work for me and my friends everytime and it is not up to the customer to monitor this.

Also, I'm pretty sure it is up to you. It certainly is for bank cards.
I don't think the limit is like a nanny system.

soupie

but I'd say you were making a lot less calls then, so it was easier to monitor when you were coming up to 100e.


cheers for the comments

thats the point in Portugal i used it less and it cut off at 106 euro this bill was allowed to run up to over 2500!

If they and I dont buckle would u reckon it would go as far as court? or do u reckon if i dont budge and continue to argue they'll give up? mad thing is theyd make more than that from my custom in little over a year and more beyond that.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

hi soupie - terrible situation to be in.

the best advice i can offer is to chat to someone in a Free Legal Advice Centre: http://www.flac.ie/

Also, you could ask comreg for information (and eventually lodge a complaint with them if necessary): http://www.askcomreg.ie/

Sam Vimes

soupie wrote:

but I'd say you were making a lot less calls then, so it was easier to monitor when you were coming up to 100e.


cheers for the comments

thats the point in Portugal i used it less and it cut off at 106 euro this bill was allowed to run up to over 2500!

If they and I dont buckle would u reckon it would go as far as court? or do u reckon if i dont budge and continue to argue they'll give up? mad thing is theyd make more than that from my custom in little over a year and more beyond that.

how do they make more than 2500 in a year if you've set a limit of 100 a month ?

100*12=1200

replytohere2004

because if he reaches the €100 limit before the end of the month, he can just pay the bill, and make more calls.

mel123

Id say you will have to pay...these phone companys tend to be like banks, they seem to have laws of their own!! Best thing to do is ring either consumer rights or try and get in touch with someone who will know legally ur rights. Phone company will prob be covered under some small print. If at the end of it u do find out u are liable, tell them u'll pay like €5 a week or something (a long time), but better that than a bad credit rating!

ButtermilkJack

Simple as this...

You asked your operator to set a limit of €100 on your phone bill. They agreed. First check the small print to see if roaming effects this agreement. If there is no mention of roaming, then you only have to pay €100. Not a cent more.

It is not your fault, or your problem, if their systems cannot update for 48 hours while you are abroad. This is down to their technology and something they should fix if they want to avoid these situations in the future. They should not have agreed if they cannot implement it fully.

If, however, the small print mentions a grace period for roaming charges to appear on their system then you will have to pay the full bill.

Keep us posted!

Gillo

Pythia wrote:

Also, I'm pretty sure it is up to you. It certainly is for bank cards.
I don't think the limit is like a nanny system.

Exactly, if you're old enough to get have a bill phone in fairness you should be able to budget how you use it. To be honest I've nevr heard of a limit been put on bill phones and to be brutally honest don't see why you should need one.

At the end of the day, you're not dealing with some small company, mobile operaters are smart companies, they keep their backs covered, you will have to pay. If you don't you will knacker your credit rating, but before that happens, you'll get a few nice letters, then a few not so nice letters then a few menacing letters, you'll also get a number of phone calls, before the nice debt collector calls out for a "friendly chat", you may eventually end up in court; don't worry this all takes time to happen (years not weeks), it'll take a hell of a lot longer to clear your credit rating though.

My advice is seek legal advice (from a good solicitor, not some dodgey no win no fee geezer), if they genuinely think you have a case, take it but chances are they'll advise you to pay up, cut your loses and know better next time.

soupie

thanks for the all the advice ppl.

Three have refused to review my complaint they said that there first response which was when I raised the issue is there final answer. They have refused to explain or respond to my query as to how it was my fault that the security pins could be unlocked and would not elaborate on the €100 limit just saying that it sometimes doesnt work.

Their responses have been extremely bad, the seem to use untrained staff along with poor levels of service.

Anyways I've logged this with comreg to see what they say. if they say I'm wrong I'll pay it if they say I'm right I'll fight it. I'll keep you posted.

thanks for the advice its been really helpful.