Challenging "Speeding Ticket"

Maxwell

Im surprised this hasn't come up.

Received a fine in the post stating I was driving at 100kmph in a 60kmph zone on the M7/N7????

I was clearly confused of where there is a 60kmph zone on one of the main bleedin roads in this god awful country, so on my next trip up I saw the signs (near Poitin Still or thereabouts). I tried to drive at the 60kmph (in 2 lanes of traffic) and got blared out of it by other road users as I was holding up the traffic. I had to keep breaking to try and keep the car at 60kmph as I was intent of not getting another fine and points.

Basically a rant - but a complete and utter joke of a decision to limit speed to 60kmph/40 MILES AN HOUR on a 2 lane stretch of open road!! I live on a "boreen" type of road and the speed limit is 100kmph!!(I kid you not)

Basically, is there no way of challenging this?? as I don't want the points on my licence because its just a joke of an enforcement when others are speeing on crap country roads and causing deaths.


**Just to note that I am certainly not a "racer" and want to speed on roads - but I just don't believe I was speeding. I was travelling with my wife and young daughter at an average speed of 80-100kmph on one of Ireland's main roads and to be caught like this, is just so very f**King annoying.**

zuutroy

Maxwell wrote:

Basically, is there no way of challenging this??

No. Complain to the County Council if you think it should be changed, but you got caught breaking the limit on the day. Pay up and look cheerful.

Seth Brundle

There are two main ways of challenging this:
* if there is an error on the notice (wrong date, etc.)
* if the speed limit wasn't legal
Other than that, you broke the speed limit! Isn't the Poitin Stil stretch undergoing roadworks? I presume this is why the limit is lower than it may otherwise be.

Savman

Maxwell wrote:

I don't want the points on my licence because its just a joke of an enforcement

I'm sure this defence will sit nicely with the judge :rolleyes:
What exactly would your defence be? "Yes sir, I ignored the speed limit signs and drove at the same speed as everyone else."

You were stung but unlikely you'll get out of the points. Get that out of the way and then complain to relative council about speed limits.

Maxwell

Fair enough, but I presume no-one who has posted has tried to drive at 60kmph on that stretch of the road. I nearly caused accidents because I was HOLDING up traffic.

Ah well

unkel

It's because of the road works. There are gatsos there regularly. 60km/h is ridiculous imho, 80km/h would be much more acceptable to most drivers. Like when they upped the limit from 60km/h to 80km/h on the N4 between the M50 and M4, the vast majority stuck to the new limit and the gatsos disappeared

Maxwell wrote:

I tried to drive at the 60kmph (in 2 lanes of traffic) and got blared out of it by other road users as I was holding up the traffic

I know what you mean

Maxwell wrote:

I presume no-one who has posted has tried to drive at 60kmph on that stretch of the road

In two minds about what to do there myself. Sometimes I just stick to the 60km/h, other times I don't but I keep a good eye out for the gatsos

Black Sky

have to sympathize with Maxwell, as I'm still peeved at getting done I reckon this am by a camera van, on the N4 inbound between the M50 roundabout and the Esso Station on the left before Palmerstown. Doing 80kmph in a 60kmph zone, any slower, and you get blown out of it, plus the green gatso van parked under the trees there next to some construction vechicles... its not a safety issue, its the old shoot fish in a barrell trick.....
you cannot appeal really.. I bet the forthcoming outsourced private speed montioring will be much much worse.....

sorry had to rant....

Wing Walker

Maxwell wrote:

I presume no-one who has posted has tried to drive at 60kmph on that stretch of the road. I nearly caused accidents because I was HOLDING up traffic.

I'm not on that road very regularly but whenever I am, I have to say that I stick to the 60kph. I still get passed at guys doing at least 100. Sometimes I feel guilty that I'm holding up traffic but it does mean that I don't get points. Other times, cars just fall in line behind me and quite happily tootle along knowing that they're not the ones holding up the traffic but are at least not getting cursed by the other drivers.

hmmm

I don't understand this thing we have about "I have to break the speed limit because otherwise everyone will look at me funny". If I'm obeying the speed limit and I'm not doing something stupid like sit in the overtaking lane, everyone behind me can just relax and shut the hell up.

TheBazman

Just be a little careful, a mate of mine was in court for not paying a speeding fine (it went to wrong address - but this is covered in another thread). On the same day there were several people who had been caught in the same place as you doing 100 in a 60 near the Poitin Still. The judge was in foul form and gave them all 600 euro fines with 6mths bans - and given no opportunity to make a case about why they did not pay the fines in the first place.

I agree its really frustrating but it may be worth taking your punishment

mloc123

Black Sky wrote:

have to sympathize with Maxwell, as I'm still peeved at getting done I reckon this am by a camera van, on the N4 inbound between the M50 roundabout and the Esso Station on the left before Palmerstown. Doing 80kmph in a 60kmph zone, any slower, and you get blown out of it, plus the green gatso van parked under the trees there next to some construction vechicles... its not a safety issue, its the old shoot fish in a barrell trick.....
you cannot appeal really.. I bet the forthcoming outsourced private speed montioring will be much much worse.....

sorry had to rant....

Is that a 60 kph zone? shi1t I never realised and I drive it every day, most of the time in traffic so well under 60 I would presume..

Maxwell

TheBazman wrote:

Just be a little careful, a mate of mine was in court for not paying a speeding fine (it went to wrong address - but this is covered in another thread). On the same day there were several people who had been caught in the same place as you doing 100 in a 60 near the Poitin Still. The judge was in foul form and gave them all 600 euro fines with 6mths bans - and given no opportunity to make a case about why they did not pay the fines in the first place.

I agree its really frustrating but it may be worth taking your punishment

Okay Dokey then!

Better pay the fine, but still not happy about it!

Interceptor

It says in the Bible that if your right hand causes you to sin you should cut it off and cast it away. I got two penalty points a while back, so I threw away my front number plate and it hasn't happened again since. Yay the Bible, a great place for motoring tips.

'cptr

Maxwell

hmmm wrote:

I don't understand this thing we have about "I have to break the speed limit because otherwise everyone will look at me funny". If I'm obeying the speed limit and I'm not doing something stupid like sit in the overtaking lane, everyone behind me can just relax and shut the hell up.

Maybe when you actually drive on the section of road in question you would understand. There is obeying the general speed limit's(which I do), but when the speed limit is quite clearly wrong and delaying the speed of traffic and nearly causing accidents - then's it clearly an issue.

NeMiSiS

Obeying the speed limit on the N7 you will very quickly find yourself in the left hand lane with.. very large trucks flying by you..

TK

hmmm

I drive it regularly, if everyone said "I have to keep up" traffic will just go at the speed of the fastest person. You're letting yourself be bullied by people who willingly break the speed limit I think.

Maxwell

hmmm wrote:

I drive it regularly, if everyone said "I have to keep up" traffic will just go at the speed of the fastest person. You're letting yourself be bullied by people who willingly break the speed limit I think.

Not as black and white as you suggest. I nearly cause an accident by driving that slow as all the cars are trying to manuover into the other lane to pass by me.

unkel

Interceptor wrote:

It says in the Bible that if your right hand causes you to sin you should cut it off and cast it away. I got two penalty points a while back, so I threw away my front number plate

What did you do with your right foot?

samo

hmmm wrote:

I drive it regularly, if everyone said "I have to keep up" traffic will just go at the speed of the fastest person. You're letting yourself be bullied by people who willingly break the speed limit I think.

Having just driven down that same section of the Naas Road today I'd rather get 2 penalty points and the fine than have some physco HGV driver barrelling down behind me at 100kph when I'm doing 60! Happened to me today 3 times in 2 mins when I was going slightly higher than the speed limit in the inside lane and soon made me speed up regardless of the consequences TBH! :eek:

Maxwell

samo wrote:

Having just driven down that same section of the Naas Road today I'd rather get 2 penalty points and the fine than have some physco HGV driver barrelling down behind me at 100kph when I'm doing 60! Happened to me today 3 times in 2 mins when I was going slightly higher than the speed limit in the inside lane and soon made me speed up regardless of the consequences TBH! :eek:

Finally someone talking sense.

Its a dangerous situation on that part of the road - I just wish it would be addressed. Unfortunately in this country, stupid decisions are made regarding our roads and mistakes are rarely rectified.

Anan1

I think the core of this discussion is that driving too fast and breaking the speed limit are often two completely different things. Although the OP may well have been driving at a safe speed, perhaps even safer than the posted speed limit, he still broke the law and got caught. He therefore has no legitimate claim to having the fine waived, but would be perfectly within his rights to campaign to have the speed limit raised.

CuppaCocoa

Try sticking to the 60 kph speed limit on the new stretch of road at the Whitehall Church coming up to the Coolock/Santry roundabout. It's crazy. There's only 1 lane so you can't overtake. I regularly stick to the speed limit. Last Friday I nearly had an artic lorry in the car with me he was so close to my bumper. I refused to be bullied and stuck rigidly to the limit. Luckily he was going straight through to the airport road and I was branching off for Coolock. He honked me out of it as soon as he was free. If I had to brake suddenly he would have come through my windscreen. Why can't people read the speed signs and obey them? I get fed up with people driving up my butt.

dubred

I have driven this road (N7) twice a day for the last 18 months, I drive at the very clearly signposted speed limit of 60km/h. In that time I have experienced a very small number of drivers attempting to get into my boot (mostly foreign registered trucks, but that's another argument altogether), in general, drivers who wish to ignore the speed limit just go around me.

There have been a number of speed traps along this road over that time but I would suggest that there haven't been nearly enough to act as a deterent to driving above the speed limit. Having said that, were I to have been driving above the 60km/h limit I would by now have easily reached 12 points.

Just in case you are not aware, or failed to notice, the road has been undergoing extensive reconstruction and the speed limit will revert to 100km/h when the works are complete. I don't think it is unreasonable to drive at the reduced limit in the interest of the safety of the construction workers, the benefit in the long run will outweigh the (relatively) short pain.

Maxwell

dubred wrote:

I have driven this road (N7) twice a day for the last 18 months, I drive at the very clearly signposted speed limit of 60km/h. In that time I have experienced a very small number of drivers attempting to get into my boot (mostly foreign registered trucks, but that's another argument altogether), in general, drivers who wish to ignore the speed limit just go around me.

There have been a number of speed traps along this road over that time but I would suggest that there haven't been nearly enough to act as a deterent to driving above the speed limit. Having said that, were I to have been driving above the 60km/h limit I would by now have easily reached 12 points.

Just in case you are not aware, or failed to notice, the road has been undergoing extensive reconstruction and the speed limit will revert to 100km/h when the works are complete. I don't think it is unreasonable to drive at the reduced limit in the interest of the safety of the construction workers, the benefit in the long run will outweigh the (relatively) short pain.

Disagree - the speed limit is too low. Im not expecting it to be the regular 120kmph, but something more sensible like 80kmph.

Maybe you are driving in rush hour - hence the build up of traffic slows down all the traffic.

My wife drives like Miss Daisy and she couldn't keep the car at 60kmph on that stretch of road as she had to keep breaking.

Anan1

Maxwell wrote:

My wife drives like Miss Daisy and she couldn't keep the car at 60kmph on that stretch of road as she had to keep breaking.

Now that's just plain ridiculous.:)

dubred

Maxwell wrote:

Disagree - the speed limit is too low. Im not expecting it to be the regular 120kmph, but something more sensible like 80kmph.

Maybe you are driving in rush hour - hence the build up of traffic slows down all the traffic.

My wife drives like Miss Daisy and she couldn't keep the car at 60kmph on that stretch of road as she had to keep breaking.

I don't know of any other non-motorway road that has a limit of 120km/h.

Mon-Fri I drive rush hour but that wouldn't generally cause a significant build up, certainly not in the last couple of months. I drive it at other times on Sat and Sun.

If someone can't manage to drive at 60km/h, one has to question their driving ability/powers of concentration.

Wing Walker

Maxwell wrote:

Disagree - the speed limit is too low. Im not expecting it to be the regular 120kmph, but something more sensible like 80kmph.

TBH with you, it doesn't really matter whether you agree with it or not. The speed limit is clearly marked as 60kph. Exceed that speed limit, even up to a relatively low speed of 80kph, and you are breaking the speed limit in force at the time on that particular stretch of road, ergo, you are breaking the law. If you're caught then, generally, you will receive the points and the fine.

Just to confirm what dubred has said, if other drivers didn't like sticking behind me at 60 on the Naas Road then they've just gone around me. That includes HGVs and the like. I've never caused an accident by following the speed limit there!

Wibbs

Wing Walker wrote:

TBH with you, it doesn't really matter whether you agree with it or not. The speed limit is clearly marked as 60kph. Exceed that speed limit, even up to a relatively low speed of 80kph, and you are breaking the speed limit in force at the time on that particular stretch of road, ergo, you are breaking the law. If you're caught then, generally, you will receive the points and the fine.

Sadly true. It's no wonder people disregard speed limits when such stupidity is afoot. I've actually had a guy in a truck on the Naas road intimidate and constantly honk his horn at me for keeping to the 60kph. I had another guy scream out the car window when he finally passed. The sad part is I wouldn't be surprised to get a ticket through the post just for avoiding that crap. If you think the gardai are bad wait until they privatise the speed cameras. Nightmare.

As a slight aside, I've had dubious dealings with speeding tickets in the past. On two occasions I recieved same for speeding. Once on a road I couldn't have been on at the time, the second when I and my car wasn't even in the country!!!. Needless to say I fought them and they quietly dropped both. I'm just sorry I didn't get my day in court and ask them how they came to charge me for the non existent offence. This has happened to friends of mine. It's not that isolated. The fact that it can take months for the ticket to arrive can mean it's hard for a driver to know if he's at fault in the absence of photo evidence. That should be changed right there. Lucky for me I could prove that it couldn't have been me. Now this happened 3 years ago so hopefully they've gotten their act together. My advice, if you're caught fair and square, pay up. You screwed up. If you have any doubt get a solicitor. I remain points free up to now. I would be 4 points up if I hadn't fought it.

NUTLEY BOY

My sympathies to the OP as any of us could have fallen in to that " trap ".

For a real " go slow and see how long you survive " test try driving the Rock Road between Mount Merrion Avenue and the Tara Towers Hotel. The frigging speed limit is temporarily 30 KPH - yes 19 MPH in old money.

I actually managed to break that limit one Sunday on my bicycle with the help of a following wind ! If I had been clocked doing that on my bicycle could I have been done for speeding and could I have been given points ??????

Ireland is definitely a world leader in irrational and irregular speed limits......