SE Double Chance Tonight

ianmc38

Sick sick night. 1st out was Fuzzbox, I followed in second.

Got dogged by Chief Brody who has a new even luckier mustard top.
Dogged someones two pair with a flush on the river. Hit a better pair against me and hit a miracle 2-outer on the river with KJ on a A8J board against someone with A8.

I called him lucky and he then says "Do you think that's luck? That's not luck!" Lol

Was up 230 in the cash game then ran KK into AA preflop to lose all my profit.
Managed to get back to even so wasn't too sick in the end.

Chief was monster chip stack on the final table when I left. Again. Sigh.

Dub13

I played this went out with two tables left,built up a nice stack then got unlucky on 3/4 hands.I think Olly was still in when I left.

tribulus

is this chief guy really that sh1t? sounds like he makes a lot of final tables

MrPillowTalk

tribulus wrote:

is this chief guy really that sh1t? sounds like he makes a lot of final tables

Was just thinking that myself, you cant be **** and win tourney after tourney.......

sikes

i have only played on a couple of tables with him, but he can spot weakness very well from what i can tell he is just a bit off when it comes to pot odds. i overheard him once in the fitz when someone was getting a lecture from him, the guy asked him if he thinks about pot odds. he doesnt was the answer!

i would love to see him in the wsop, he would he the tiffany of last year, but he would win it!!

ditpoker

played... badly... went out somewhere with i think 5 tables to go, reraised with top pair Q kicker into a slow played AA... which hurt. played generally very poorly but had one great fold of AQ to AJ, A high board, J on river, he raised i fold... delighted with that fold!

ligger

Was at Fuzzbox's table at the start, Very loose even for that tourney. Did not show a hand till table was broken just before the break. Then decided that my tight table image must count for something and made a move on new table. BTW no players from old table at new one (the genius of this..:) ) And My A rag got called by the monster that is K10 and K on turn and I am away with tail between my legs.:(

ianmc38

Oh forgot to mention how much fun I had in the tourney. SB called my button raise (with aces). Flop 443. SB checks, MP all-in for a small amount, I raise, SB goes all-in. I fold.

SB had A4o. NH WP.

Chief dogs my 88 with QJo on the river.

QQ fails to hold up all in preflop against Mr A rag.

Barrel-o-laughs.

Washout

Im confused as hell and sick has hell.

blinds are at 100/200

im BB folded to button who calls. Chief is in the the SB completes.

i look down at AQo. I have a decent enough stack of 9.5k.
I decide to push for the following reasons.
(a) Im 100% convinced the button is folding.
(b) If i put in a standard raise im sure the button is calling as will the chief
(c) I dont mind picking up the 1200 here with AQo
(d) The chief will call 50% of the time and 100% of the time will be behind.

Am i so wrong in my thinking?

he took a while but as soon as i saw him checking who uch he would be left with he was calling. he had 11K/12K or so by my reckoning.

he called with Kh9h. another player says that he folded K9 pf so im pretty comfortable.

flop brings a K to knock me out. I dont mind the call but I felt i played a rather solid game last night

i dont know maybe my thinking is completly wrong for this game of poker.

sleepless night just thinking this hand over and over.

ollyk1

Very funny night generally.

Poor washout got chiefed when its 3 way limped to his BB and he pushes all-in for 9k more into 1.2k pot with AQ. Folded to the chiefs SB and he calls off 70% of his stack with K9 sooted (it's a good hand :rolleyes: ) . I really felt Washouts pain on the K high flop. :eek:

(eh washout just outlined it better than I! )


I was playing nicely and making some timely moves when I thought I had halfbaked trapped for a nice 15k pot with AQ v A9. Of course a 9 had to drop.

I recovered but finally both myself and halfbaked got coldecked witrh 14 players left when HB pushed utg with JJ I reraised all-in with QQ on the button and the BB woke up with AA. Boo! Hiss. :rolleyes:

A classic quote from the chief last night regaling someone with a bad beat story he inflicted

"Well I had a pair of twos so I had outs on the flop, there were two clubs on the board and I had one (2 high!! :eek: ) so I had a flush draw, plus I had any 4 for a straight, or any two. So I had loads of outs but he couldn't see them" Brilliant

ianmc38

ollyk1 wrote:

"Well I had a pair of twos so I had outs on the flop, there were two clubs on the board and I had one (2 high!! :eek: ) so I had a flush draw, plus I had any 4 for a straight, or any two. So I had loads of outs but he couldn't see them" Brilliant

I'm glad someone else heard that one. He was recollecting that story while giving me some free tips.

Maybe Chief read Gigabets post on 2+2 about taking -EV situations in order to amass a big stack. Makes sense now....

Washout

ollyk1 wrote:

Very funny night generally.
(eh washout just outlined it better than I! )

but was it such a bad push? and why?

ollyk1

Washout wrote:

Im confused as hell and sick has hell.

blinds are at 100/200

im BB folded to button who calls. Chief is in the the SB completes.

i look down at AQo. I have a decent enough stack of 9.5k.
I decide to push for the following reasons.
(a) Im 100% convinced the button is folding.
(b) If i put in a standard raise im sure the button is calling as will the chief
(c) I dont mind picking up the 1200 here with AQo
(d) The chief will call 50% of the time and 100% of the time will be behind.

Am i so wrong in my thinking?

he took a while but as soon as i saw him checking who uch he would be left with he was calling. he had 11K/12K or so by my reckoning.

he called with Kh9h. another player says that he folded K9 pf so im pretty comfortable.

flop brings a K to knock me out. I dont mind the call but I felt i played a rather solid game last night

i dont know maybe my thinking is completly wrong for this game of poker.

sleepless night just thinking this hand over and over.

Hey Washout,

Against anyone other than the chief I thought the push wouldn't have been a good long-term move. AQ is a good hand and if you get a caller of a standard (3*BB plus one for every limper) raise you still had plenty of chips to play some poker on the flop. But if the chief is going to continually call you in the long run with possibly dominated hands then its a great push!! Just very unlucky.

I played a reasonable hand against the chief where I raised with AQ and he made his usual "he's got high cards I'll call and push him off the hand" call. Flop came KQ8 and he bets and I call. He bets the turn and I call and on the river I'm willing him to give it another stab but he just can't find it. I missed a value bet on the river because it turns out he had a bad queen and would have called off a 2.5k bet.

Someone asked me was I not afraid of the king and I replied "I'll call down all day against that player with middle pair" its the only way to play the chief. He's ruthless in his search for weakness and I think thats a great strength but you have to use it against him.

Washout

thanks olly.

the ONLY reason for my push was because it was the chief and the button can no way call.

im willing to do it over and over again against cheilf like players

anyone else then it is just a standard raise.

btw did you have Ax first hand? board was 2345 me thinks.

ollyk1

Washout wrote:

but was it such a bad push? and why?

You had a nice hand and an above average stack, against decent players you are going to run in to trouble when someone calls you with AK or JJ+ having limped in early position or something. Apart from the chief I can't see too many people calling you with hands you beat so the push isn't great Washout imho.

You were seriously overbetting the pot and thats not good in the long run in most poker games. Having said that I think people pick up a lot of bad habits in the SE because you get called by some amazing stuff so maybe its +EV I dunno. I think you should play the Fitz DC game or the scalps game more often just to see some good players (and plenty of poor players too).

I had a push called by K7 at one stage :eek: (the fact that it was my fourth or fifth push on this guys BB may have coloured his decision but still )

ollyk1

Washout wrote:

thanks olly.

the ONLY reason for my push was because it was the chief and the button can no way call.

im willing to do it over and over again against cheilf like players

anyone else then it is just a standard raise.

btw did you have Ax first hand? board was 2345 me thinks.

I had 66. I thought I was ahead all the way tbh. I was just hping you had an ace and maybe I stack you. Me bad.

Yeah the chief certainly effects how you play the other hand. I'm conflicted on the best way to play the hand as a result if you know what I mean....

El Stuntman

lol lads, sounded like the Chief gave some of you a sleepless night last night - sounds like he was sparkling form doling out the free advice!! usually doesn't talk that much...

the only place to play the Chief is on the cash tables.

in position

and willing to blast with all barrels!!

HalfBaked

Mehh.....Got pretty rubbish cards and played poorly.

Best cards of the night by some way were kk, AQ, JJ & 1010, two of which I had to lay down pre-flop. Lost first stack when I flopped top two pair on a KJ5 board. I checked UTG and it was checked around to middle position and a raise to 400 (blinds 50/100), one caller and I pushed for 1,600 (1K+ in pot). Both called, initial raiser with pocket pair (55), and second one with open ended straight draw. No help and it's chip please after 3 hands. Then managed to build up to about 8K by the break, mostly due to the KK hand.

Came back and donated 4.5K (of about 10K stacK) to Washout when I had an out of body experience where I tried to push him off a made straight from the flop. Worse part was I knew what he had on the turn and still bet 3K on the river when a scare card came out, feck knows what I was thinkin at the time (I still don't know ?!?!).

Went card dead for the rest of the night, until I laid the trap for Olly with my A-9. I pushed and once he called I knew I was dominated. But what Olly didn't realise is that now I had him exactly where I wanted him. The Chief has taught me (in my private coaching) that I want to lure then in with a worse hand and then...WAM, hit them with the miracle card!! Serves both to take the chips and break there spirit, a fearsome combination. I tells you those lessons will be worth there weight in gold.

Managed to hang in, getting rubbish and blinding away until the JJ hand. Pushed for 6bbs hoping for a caller as at that stage as I needed to get some chips .... I certainly did not want two with over pairs!!

El Stuntman

tribulus wrote:

is this chief guy really that sh1t? sounds like he makes a lot of final tables

I was thinking about this myself on Saturday as I watched him blow through a lot of his Fitz winnings.

I think it's the poker equivalent of the Contrarian Investor i.e. the guy who goes against the market and is bearish when everyone else is bullish etc. Works well against dudes who sit around waiting for Aces!!

plus I agree with Ollyk - he is a master at applying pressure in a tournament situation

ollyk1

HalfBaked wrote:

Went card dead for the rest of the night, until I laid the trap for Olly with my A-9. I pushed and once he called I knew I was dominated. But what Olly didn't realise is that now I had him exactly where I wanted him. The Chief has taught me (in my private coaching) that I want to lure then in with a worse hand and then...WAM, hit them with the miracle card!! Serves both to take the chips and break there spirit, a fearsome combination. I tells you those lessons will be worth there weight in gold.

Sh1t happens but what disappointed me particularly was Anto had called you and the BB was definitely folding so I knew it was going to be an extra juicy pot and I could get it head up against you in great shape so I pushed. You don't normally push with likely dominated hands but I knew you were really desperate.

The plan was coming together nicely until the flop. A final table average stack at the last two tables stage I coulda been a real contender :rolleyes:

I had visions or marching over the table before they were cruelly snapped away

Washout

HalfBaked wrote:

Came back and donated 4.5K (of about 10K stacK) to Washout when I had an out of body experience where I tried to push him off a made straight from the flop. Worse part was I knew what he had on the turn and still bet 3K on the river when a scare card came out, feck knows what I was thinkin at the time (I still don't know ?!?!).

I was pretty sure you knew what i had on the turn. If I had taken a gulp of water when you bet 3k it would have been all over everyone.

ianmc38

Here's some examples of Chiefs play from last night.

I raise on the button to 700 after 3 limpers with 88. Chief calls with QJo.

Chief limps from MP. Board TsJc5s. Someone bets the pot. Chief calls. Turn 3c. The guy bets. Chief goes all in for another 700 or so. Guy turns over TPGK. Chief shows Qc5c. River a club.

Chief calls a raise from MP. Flop A8J. Checked to the Chief, he bets, MP raiser goes all in for another 1.5k or so. Chief calls with KJ. The guy who pushed has A8, meaning the Chief needs runner-runner or to hit his two-outer. River J. I laugh tell him he's ridiculously lucky and he stares at me in disbelief shakes his head and asks "do you think that's luck?" as if he's made the most skillful call ever.

Talking about the hand that practically won him the scalps last Friday. he had 26 on a board of 235. He called some guys all in. The guy had 8 3 or something similar. Turn was a 6. Chief says "I had a straight draw, a flush draw (backdoor flush draw, 2 high) and any of the cards in my hand. I had so many outs and your man couldn't see it. He couldn't believe I called him. But i'd so many outs."

LEGEND

ollyk1

ollyk1 wrote:

Yeah the chief certainly effects how you play the other hand. I'm conflicted on the best way to play the hand as a result if you know what I mean....

I take this back somewhat Washout I think a raise to 1000 would have been better. I really wasn't mad about the push aginst the chief or anyone else. You are taking a 55/45 flip with the chief for all your chips or at best a 60/40 when you could just try to outplay him on the flop by making a raise or a fold depending on your read and the flop.

Everyone knew he didn't have an ace so you aren't dominating him unless his picture card is a Q and let's face it he prefers kings. I prefer to play poker rather than race here. You had loads of chips and position on the chief you couldn't have asked for more so theres no point in racing and throwing all those advantages away not on a 55/45.

5starpool

ianmc38 wrote:

Talking about the hand that practically won him the scalps last Friday. he had 26 on a board of 235. He called some guys all in. The guy had 8 3 or something similar. Turn was a 6. Chief says "I had a straight draw, a flush draw (backdoor flush draw, 2 high) and any of the cards in my hand. I had so many outs and your man couldn't see it. He couldn't believe I called him. But i'd so many outs."

LEGEND

Kevin (he had 75 in the hand I think, def a 5 anyhow) sat beside me in a cash game afterwards and I regailed him with the tales of the legend that is the chief. And to think, I have only ever played on a table with him once, and that was before I knew who he was........

Washout

ollyk1 wrote:

I take this back somewhat Washout I think a raise to 1000 would have been better. I really wasn't mad about the push aginst the chief or anyone else. You are taking a 55/45 flip with the chief for all your chips or at best a 60/40 when you could just try to outplay him on the flop by making a raise or a fold depending on your read and the flop.

Everyone knew he didn't have an ace so you aren't dominating him unless his picture card is a Q and let's face it he prefers kings. I prefer to play poker rather than race here. You had loads of chips and position on the chief you couldn't have asked for more so theres no point in racing and throwing all those advantages away not on a 55/45.

i think your right...a K high flop as it came down i think i would have gotten away from it. he loves K high hands...and he loves to race....and i certainly dont being above average.

also one of the reasons I dont play the fitz is for its reputation of attracting the better players and i consider myself to be one of the bad players you refered to earlier...but maybe being amongst other fellow bad players im picking up even more bad habits.

Gholimoli

the chief is absolutely useless.
i was really shocked when i heard he won the fitz last week as it was such a though field as well but then again every dog will have his day.
he couldn't spot a white man in a NBA basketball game never mind spotting weakness.
he looks at his cards and bets if you check, calls if you bet and if he has something strong he raises if you bet. that’s all he does.his game is based on luck luck luck and if doesn’t work out then fock.

Dub13

Gholimoli wrote:

he couldn't spot a white man in a NBA basketball game never mind spotting weakness.

I love that quote,I will have to try and fit it into a conversation today.

ianmc38

That's his exact betting pattern. You check he bets. You bet he calls with a draw/overcards. You bet, he raises with a hand. That's the Chief in anutshell. Downright brutality.

5starpool

Washout wrote:

also one of the reasons I dont play the fitz is for its reputation of attracting the better players and i consider myself to be one of the bad players you refered to earlier...but maybe being amongst other fellow bad players im picking up even more bad habits.

There are more than just good players there, believe you me. If (and I have no knowledge that this is true) you are not a good player then the fact that you acknowledge this in the first place gives you an advantage over bad players who think they are good as you will be learning and improving.

Not sure if that makes any sense. The thing about the Fitz is that on nearly any given night you are guaranteed 40+ players unlike the SE, and the scalps on Friday always gets 70+, so you should give it a go.

ollyk1

Washout wrote:

i think your right...a K high flop as it came down i think i would have gotten away from it. he loves K high hands...and he loves to race....and i certainly dont being above average.

also one of the reasons I dont play the fitz is for its reputation of attracting the better players and i consider myself to be one of the bad players you refered to earlier...but maybe being amongst other fellow bad players im picking up even more bad habits.

I think you have to back yourself to make the right decisions on the flop and I agree you could fold AQ on that flop.

I played an AJ hand earlier against the chief and another limper on my BB but I just checked and hoped to hit and stack the chief which didn't happen. But I'm a bit trappy me and I wasn't as deply stacked as you so I didn't want to raise, continuation bet oop and then have to fold if someone pushed. I played it small instead. The advantage you had was the only likely caller of a rasie was the chief and you would have had position. I'd have killed for position on the chief.

There definitely are plenty of poor players in the Fitz but you tend to see the odd good live player too which can really improve your game from observing them and playing against them in small doses. It's just a suggestion and I find playing in the Fitz I can play a number of different ways sometimes whilst I tend to play a little more simply and vanilla in the SE generally.

I wouldn't say you were one of the bad players - you are an improving player and quite disciplined. My suggestion is to try and help speed up the process thats all. I know you've read plenty but its about practise and appplication now and seeing it done and trying it yourself. To give one example it took an awful long time for me to learn to rereraise on a squeeze play when the circumstances are just right. Those circumstances will almost never arise in the SE they do occasionally in the Fitz.

You probably don't disguise the strength of your hands terribly well and as you don't play many hands and are fairly quiet at the table you don't get a lot of action. This can be a good and bad thing you just need to be aware of the tendencies arising in in other players as a result.

Jebus this could be taken as me having a go and being an arrogant pr1ck. Not intended and I hope you take this in the spirt it weas intended Washout

P.S. You never told me what you folded on that 2345 board?

Washout

ollyk1 wrote:

Jebus this could be taken as me having a go and being an arrogant pr1ck. Not intended and I hope you take this in the spirt it weas intended Washout

P.S. You never told me what you folded on that 2345 board?

not at all. its all good stuff. and much appreciated and needed advice.

i did raise a couple of times on the 1st table we were with air in osition knowing my reputation and happily doing so seeing one guy telling the chinese guy that you never ever fold your small blind with about 3 callers no matter what you have (I had 82o). so i attacked his BB a couple of times.

best pf hand i had all night was JJ.

I had K5s. that 1st hand

ollyk1

Washout wrote:

I had K5s. that 1st hand

I bet after you checked the turn hoping it was A5 but when you folded I was thinking Q5 or K5. Filling the straight killed my action really but I guess I could have reraised on the flop if I wanted to get some more chips in there but I once again played a bit trappy and hidden I guess but I thought if I raised you'd smell an overpair and fold so I decided to flat call with position on the flop.

Look Ian I have more moves then just robbing the blind!! Can you believe it?? :eek:

ianmc38

Washout the standard of play in the Fitz isn't hugely better than the SE. There are still lots of donks.

Wallko

tribulus wrote:

is this chief guy really that sh1t? sounds like he makes a lot of final tables

lol, i can give just a few examples from last night,

firstly i was knocked out 10th when i pushed into brodys bb for 10k when blinds were 1k/2k, he flopped top two.

The great one joined us when down to 4/5 tables with his usual monster stack.

Some of his plays last nite defied belief, some of the calls he made (not raises) were rediculuos.

heres just a few:

Brody raises double bb to 1200, tight bb calls, flop aa10 rainbow, guy pushes all in for 10k, brody calls quickly, your man k10, brody k8! your drawing pretty dead lad


Brody raises as usual to 1200, one caller, flop 1088, brody bets, your man reraises allin (big raise to about 13k), brody calls wit a9! your mans a10 is miles ahead.

Despite all this he stil managed to collect chips and get to the final table with a healthy stack when i left. iv never seen anything like what i saw last night

His vpip or whatever you call it was 100%, none of this 95% rocky stuff, never once folded. he reraised preflop about 50% of the time. Some say this agressive stuff works but everyone at the table had his number, he got called everytime and outdrew or flopped top pair with garbage.

Also noticed something amusing that happened quite a lot, about five time people moved all in on the river for like 5k into 50k pots. Brody couldnt even call once:D

he looked at me once saying how can i call with ten high, also overheard a conversation of his at the blackjack table where he was calling someone else a maniac, very enjoyable!

Also some my notice i decided to boycott the SE, 2 weeks wasnt too bad was it?:D

HalfBaked

ollyk1 wrote:

Sh1t happens but what disappointed me particularly was Anto had called you and the BB was definitely folding so I knew it was going to be an extra juicy pot and I could get it head up against you in great shape so I pushed. You don't normally push with likely dominated hands but I knew you were really desperate.

The plan was coming together nicely until the flop. A chip table average stack at the last two tables stage I coulda been a real contender :rolleyes:

I had visions or marching over the table before they were cruelly snapped away

Very unlucky again Olly, you played the hand perfectly.