Fish outdoors?

flogen

I'm doing some work out my back and as part of it we'll be installing a water feature (one of those water-fall type ones).
The original idea was to put the water feature into a box of some kind, set up the base of the water feature so it held the water that was being pumped backwards and forwards etc. and have the rest of the box full of plants (if you get me).
I was thinking today that instead I could make up a box using decking and insulate it so that the whole thing is filled with water with the feature in the middle; that way I could put some fish in it (and of course put some kind of cage around the water pump so the fish wouldn't get caught by it.)

Anyway, I'm wondering if firstly you can really keep fish in an Irish garden and if so what breeds are best and what kind of water condition would it have to be (fresh water etc.?)
Just looking for some general pointers really, and while I have it planned so the pump won't harm the fish would the recirculated water disturb them in any way; from my experience fish can be very delicate when it comes to living conditions etc.

FranknFurter

Well, no matter what fish you go for, there will have to be a sizable part of the pond that is still water and not disturbed by a waterfall otherwise expect any fish to last a week if u are lucky.

4 things fish need, space, a place to just "be", food and shelter.
If you can provide this then maybe go for koi, or regular goldfish (you would be amazed how beautiful they are and how quickly they grow outside, my mother has one in a 6x5 pond she has, amazing little thing, about a foot long (8 years old), vanished in the winter (when it gets really cold) reappears in the spring.
Rainwater is best imho, but if you have to use tap water, let it sit for a week so the harmful chemicals can evaporate. And levels balance themselves out. Also, I've always been a great believer in keeping a pond as "natural" as possible. While the water is sitting in it dont be afraid to throw in the odd handfull of stones, or a bit of tree bark, never dont ours any harm and seemed to be a great way for the mini-enviroment to get going.

But size is really the key, unless you have a decent size pond, dont bother with fish, they wont last.

(BTW, with any pond always have a sloping rock or somthing "ramping" out the side to dry land so that any birds or wildlife have a way out if they fall in, also is nice as small birds will often perch on it to wash and drink in the morning)

b

Arcadian

You'll need a filter attached to the pump to keep the water pure, also a UV light to keep green water at bay. The amount of water in the pond will dictate what, if any, fish you can keep.

Our man in Havana

Fish do very well in a pond environment - but as stated the water needs to sit for at least a week before buying any fish & the bigger the better. My pond is in the middle of being made - my garden is in 3 levels so we need a bridge over the pond to get to the upper level - once this is made the liner can go in & water & plants will be added - then we will get some fish & let the turtles swim free.

FranknFurter

Arcadian wrote:

You'll need a filter attached to the pump to keep the water pure, also a UV light to keep green water at bay. The amount of water in the pond will dictate what, if any, fish you can keep.

Gotta say Arcadian, I dont really agree.
Over the years we had a LOT of fish in the pond, all did amazingly and thrived.
This was a pond with NO UV light, and no pump/filter, it was purely filled by rainwater. Algae was kept at bay purely by hand (a rake once a month in the summer) and it thrived. There is a lot of info out there to sell products and provide a bit too much of a good thing imho, if the pond gets sunlight for most of the day thats normally more than sufficient.
Filtering is a matter of choice, if the pond water is dirty then yes obviously, but the right planting and the right substrate can negate it when it comes to having a decent surface area. As opposed to an indoor aquarium where you have to substitute with artificial things for the outdoor enviroment.
Just my opinion of having a pond for 18 years tho (well, now im not living at home, but I do maintain her pond still).

b

Arcadian

Everybody has their opinions;) However, if you have the best interest of your pets at heart you will strive to do it the correct way. Bear in mind that the OP refers to it as a water feature not a pond therefore suggesting that it is a relatively small amount of water, the smaller the amount of water the more unstable the environment thus the need for efficient filtration etc.

flogen

Arcadian wrote:

Everybody has their opinions;) However, if you have the best interest of your pets at heart you will strive to do it the correct way. Bear in mind that the OP refers to it as a water feature not a pond therefore suggesting that it is a relatively small amount of water, the smaller the amount of water the more unstable the environment thus the need for efficient filtration etc.

Well I'm not certain of the exact size just yet; it will be bit enough however (possibly 6xsomething feet)...

@FranknFurter; when you say still water, how would this be best achieved; would it be a case of having a pond big enough so that the moving water from the feature is only in, say the centre with the water around it being fairly still or would it be better to just have it completely seperate altogether (some kind of division in the pond, so the feature draws from a small source of water but is placed in a larger pond?

Thanks for all the tips though; I'm really keen on doing this now because I think it would add a really nice effect to the whole garden; I'd say it will be the most complex work (so far I've just laid patios!) but well worth it

edit: Just did some rough measurements and it could easily go as far as 8 or 9 ft in width with a likely 5ft the other way (with room for more possibly).
Forgot to ask; what about depth?

oshi

green water is suposed to be really good for goldfish, and if it is a small container type pond then its probably better to leave the algae cause it'll use up any extra nitrates. however you probably wont be able to see the fish!

what about some minnows instead?

BeerWolf

When I was living back in Malaysia for a few years, had a nice large pond with a waterfall in one corner and the whole pond surrounded by fauna. Contained numerous fish, but I really miss them Oscars.

They were cool - sorta like your gangstas of the pond, with them fat lips.. lol

And they were socialble, probably due to their size giving them confidence, or something...

Arcadian

A pondful of oscars *drool*, if only the Irish weather was a tad warmer:D

FranknFurter

I would just put the fountain at one end of the pond, leave the other end for still water.

Oscars, my fave of all fish, so damned clever its unreal, unfortunately would'nt survive outdoors in this country

As for your question about depth, well, personally I would say have two different levels, one deep and one shallower, by shallow I would make sure its at least 1.5ft in the shallow and as deep as you want in the "deep end". My mothers for instance is about 3 to 4ft deep in the deep end and 2ft in the shallows. And those measurments you give sound good, always a good thing to go as far as you want with size if you are going to make it the "natural" way, but if you are going the way of filters etc, you are kinda limited by the budget of what filter you will need. Even then I would suggest you go as big as you can, you can always save for a filter and install it later (they are very simple to install).

b

flogen

Thanks for all the advice; the way the place I'm putting it is set up 1.5 or so ft would be easily doable and around 3ft at the other end; I suppose I could use the shallower end for the fountain/water feature.

On filters, if I were to get one how safe would it be outdoors etc.; are they built to be water-resistant at all points (considering rain etc.), the actual mains connection would be in doors but wiring etc. is another thing.

And finally where's the best place to get the sheeting (or whatever you call it) to actually waterproof the base/sides; would any decent garden centre or pet store have it?

FranknFurter

I vaguely remember being told that this place was good price wise etc.
But pretty much any garden center that does pond stuff will stock it, remember though they will try to bullsh1t you into buying 100 other things that are vital :rolleyes: for the pond. Just make it clear its all you want.
Also you are best spending the little extra and getting the tough rubber kind as opposed to the fibre kind. And steer clear of the moulded pre-shaped plastic things they barely ever last more than a year.

My mothers was made with cement, but I know that can be a bit expensive, lasts forever almost tho.

b

flogen

Thanks again; that all looks cool...

One final thing (before I actually get to work on it); rather than dig down I'm planning on having this raised (almost like a well)... the basic plan is to build a rectangular box around it (with a foundation), basically reason being that there is a huge tree root that would be impossible to move (without professional & expensive help)... Once the wall is built I'll be covering the remnants of the stump with sand and that raised bit will work as my "shallow end".
From the looks of things the hardest part will be ensuring that the surrounding wall(s) of the pond are level and after that it's just being careful etc... the plan is to build the wall up to 1 row short, put the lining in and use the final row as the anchorage... that's all plausable etc isn't it?

FranknFurter

That, you would have to ask a brickie (maybe try the DIY forum for that one).
Good luck with it, tis gonna be hard work, but in a couple of years when your back heals, and you finally get the last bit of cement from your hair / nose / mouth / nails, and the muscles in your arms stop swelling, you will be glad you done it

b

flogen

FranknFurter wrote:

That, you would have to ask a brickie (maybe try the DIY forum for that one).
Good luck with it, tis gonna be hard work, but in a couple of years when your back heals, and you finally get the last bit of cement from your hair / nose / mouth / nails, and the muscles in your arms stop swelling, you will be glad you done it

b

Cheers, and thanks again for all the advice (I can't promise I won't be back for more).

I spent last summer building 2 substancial patios and that was backbreaking stuff, I get the feeling that this aint going to be any easier (and it's not the only job to be done!!)