Playing draws from sb/bb

willis

Specifically im talking about cash games where eveyone has 100bbs. I have a major leak in my game playing flush draws/open enders from the blinds.

6max, 3limpers,You are in sb with K6 diamonds and call, bb checks.
Flop is Q104 2diamonds. How do we play this? Do we check-raise, lead with a pot-sized bet, check-call a pot bet?
For all 3 lines how do we follow up on turn?

I have found myself nearly always check-calling pot bets on the flop, and check-folding to pot bets on the turn, a disgusting way to play. Also by check-calling, we arent disgusing our hand and are telling villain we have flopped a flush draw, therefore he can play perfect against us. What is the best line in your opinions?

AmarilloFats

I lead for 3/4 Pot.
I usually lead the turn if I improve at all, or it's a strong draw or if I only have one opponent.
I don't like check calling or check raising in these spots, usually.
If I get called on the flop by more than 2 opponents I usually check the turn unimproved,,,...

Iago

If I'm going to play it I'll bet out on the flop, maybe 2/3 pot or something similar. If there's only one caller I'll fire the same bet on the turn, if there's more than 1 caller I tend to check the turn and re-evaluate then.

but I'm a fish so you should probably do it the opposite

willis

AmarilloFats wrote:

I lead for 3/4 Pot.
I usually lead the turn if I improve at all, or it's a strong draw or if I only have one opponent.
I don't like check calling or check raising in these spots, usually.
If I get called on the flop by more than 2 opponents I usually check the turn unimproved,,,...

What if you lead for 3/4 pot and get raised?

Gholimoli

You have a flush draw with 9 outs prob.(not counting the K ).
Your odds of getting there on the turn is 4:1 against.
You need to be getting 4:1 from the pot to make it worth while playing the hand from here on.
Often your not getting those odds no matter what you do that’s why its often correct to just fold them.its only a K high flush draw after all.
Now having said that to mix up your play more than anything else you can play them differently based on situation.
If you bet your flush draws all the time ,then good players will notice very quickly and they will either raise you there you float you and take the pot from you on the turn.
If you check/call all the time then it’s the same.
If you check/raise and you only do it with draws then that becomes evident as well.
Mix it up.lead with them some times and check/raise other times and check/call other times.but most often fold them.
After that its better to lead with them as your expectation is higer but for this to work you obviously need to lead with some 1 pair hands/or two pair hands some times as well.
Of all the option check/calling should be tried the least but should be played as part of mixed strategy.

AmarilloFats

willis wrote:

What if you lead for 3/4 pot and get raised?

Is "play poker" the usual 2+2 response.
Depends. It Doesn't happen that much..
The more players waiting to act the stronger my draw needs to be to lead.
If I am raised with my K6 flush draw with 100bb I will let it go, usually.

Iago

well you've got a draw for the 2nd nut flush, you've a backdoor straight draw and an overcard to the board. If you're raised it could be a multitude of hands a lot of which will be behind if a K never mind a diamond lands on the turn. So maybe you call and evaluate on the turn.

What if your bet is raised and somone else calls before you, who knows...situation dependant. It's too general a question to get into specifics.

Generally I bet the flop, generally I call a raise, but specifically it depends on the opponents, their quality, the number involved, the angle of the sun in the sky and whether it's an odd or even day in the month

luckylucky

Gholimoli wrote:

You have a flush draw with 9 outs prob.(not counting the K ).
Your odds of getting there on the turn is 4:1 against.
You need to be getting 4:1 from the pot to make it worth while playing the hand from here on.
Often your not getting those odds no matter what you do that’s why its often correct to just fold them.its only a K high flush draw after all.
Now having said that to mix up your play more than anything else you can play them differently based on situation.
If you bet your flush draws all the time ,then good players will notice very quickly and they will either raise you there you float you and take the pot from you on the turn.
If you check/call all the time then it’s the same.
If you check/raise and you only do it with draws then that becomes evident as well.
Mix it up.lead with them some times and check/raise other times and check/call other times.but most often fold them.
After that its better to lead with them as your expectation is higer but for this to work you obviously need to lead with some 1 pair hands/or two pair hands some times as well.
Of all the option check/calling should be tried the least but should be played as part of mixed strategy.

Yeah Gholi's got it bang on I reckon - overall this is a very situational type hand - and if it's guys you have played before you defo need to mix it up.

There is no absolute right or wrong thing to do here I believe - who your opponents are here is vital and how the past hands have gone is too. If I have been quiet for a while I would be more inclined to pick this as a spot to lead out as to paraphrase Mr.Adams 'I haven't gone away you know!" but yeah this one it really does depends on a lot of minor factors. It's a nice 2 card to hold in a loose passive game you could reel in the fish by betting small or just let them bet small for you and price you in for the draw - hopefully you will make em pay when u hit, if the game is aggressive (tight or loose) then the fact that your are out of position and have 3 opponents I might back right off on this one, if it was 2 opponents I'm more inclined to lead out especially in a tight game where you have fold equity.

I guess the only answer you are getting here is that there is no absolute answer to this one, but I guess that's an answer in itself, i think