Is this a flipping joke!

darkman2

Just read in todays 'Northside people' that Senator Tom Morrissey was quoted as saying the traffic on the M50 would get worse when the port tunnel opens 'in JANUARY' OMFG ive had it with these idiots.....because if this is true thats what they are, make no mistake about it:mad: :mad: :mad:

jkgvfg

It is the HGV management that is coming in next January when the trucks will be banned from the city centre and sent up the M50.

Keyzer

I for one cannot wait for this.
Sitting on the M50 every day allows me to ponder all the things in life I wonder about.

Wishbone Ash

As trucks and buses may be have penalty points imposed for driving on the overtaking lane, it means that they cannot legally move over to make it easier for vehicles on the slip road to join the motorway. This is sure to cause extra tailbacks, delays and frustration.

HelterSkelter

Wishbone Ash wrote:

As trucks and buses may be have penalty points imposed for driving on the overtaking lane, it means that they cannot legally move over to make it easier for vehicles on the slip road to join the motorway. This is sure to cause extra tailbacks, delays and frustration.

You are not supposed to "move over" for people coming onto the motorway.

bk

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the majority of Lorries leave the port area at non peak times, so it shouldn't have that big of an effect.

As a resident of Griffith Avenue, I couldn't be happier, no more convoys of 18 wheelers rumbling by me when I'm on my bike.

Maskhadov

time to ditch the cars and use public transport i think

BendiBus

AS someone who walks and buses along the quays to & from work, I'm really looking forward to this. The DPT opening date was supposed to be announced in the middle of June.

Wishbone Ash

HelterSkelter wrote:

You are not supposed to "move over" for people coming onto the motorway.

I take it you are not a very advanced driver HelterSkelter? :rolleyes:


How to be an Advanced Driver - Irish Institute of Advanced Motorists (2004 edition Page 67) - Motorway Driving - Slip Road Courtesy.


"As you approach and pass an entrance slip road, keep an eye on traffic about to join the motorway. If it is safe for you to move from the left hand lane to the next lane it is considerate to do so in order to make life easier for the driver joining the motorway, as well as to keep yourself out of trouble. If a slip road is particularly busy, this tactic is particularly appropriate".

subway

HelterSkelter wrote:

You are not supposed to "move over" for people coming onto the motorway.

as opposed to the rules of the road interopretation?
http://www.irishmotoring.ie/cms/publish/cat_index_214.php

HelterSkelter

I don't consider this best practice on a busy "motorway" such as the M50 where the so-called overtaking lane is already conjested. By switching lanes you are going to cause tailbacks in the overtaking lane. What you have quoted is simply "courtesy" and I do this if the road is not busy. But the proper procedure for entering a motorway is for the person entering to acellerate to the same speed as the vehicles already on the motorway and merge.

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I take it you are not a very advanced driver HelterSkelter? :rolleyes:


How to be an Advanced Driver - Irish Institute of Advanced Motorists (2004 edition Page 67) - Motorway Driving - Slip Road Courtesy.


"As you approach and pass an entrance slip road, keep an eye on traffic about to join the motorway. If it is safe for you to move from the left hand lane to the next lane it is considerate to do so in order to make life easier for the driver joining the motorway, as well as to keep yourself out of trouble. If a slip road is particularly busy, this tactic is particularly appropriate".

jlang

Considering it's the M50 you're talking about, maybe you meant to say "decelerate to the same speed as the vehicles already on the motorway and merge".

HelterSkelter

Ha ha yeah jlang, you're right!

Lennoxschips

I did my driving lessons in Amsterdam and was always taught to move over when necessary to allow drivers to join the motorway, even on the busy A10 Amsterdam ring motorway.

I noticed that in Ireland hardly anybody does this, despite the merging lanes being much shorther. Even on the N8 outside Cork, which is practically empty, a guy rammed on the brakes to let a car merge, and the guy merging had to drive on the hard shoulder for about 200 m before he had gotten on to the road.

If the guy merging had built up his speed earlier, and if the guy on the left lane had moved over to allow space, it all would have been avoided.

Gandhi

The problem with moving over is that people get spoiled and there are already too many people who think "merging" means drifting from the on-ramp to the traveling lane and expecting the cars already there to slam on the brakes and/or swerve around them.

I see loads of people having problems merging because they tailgate the car before them on the on-ramp, so that they have no space to accelerate while merging. If they are lucky enough that the car in front of them gets in a slot with room for both of them, it works. Usually though, they end up either:

A) Drifting on anyway and forcing the car behind them to swerve, brake, or rear-end them, or
Coming to a complete stop, and getting traffic backed up behind them while they wait until a slot large enough to merge from a full stop appears.

I will move over if there is no-one in the passing lane that I will be blocking, and traffic on the on-ramp is backing up. There are some roads in the States (always six or more lanes though) where, around a busy junction, they will actually sign the lanes as "Merging Lane", "Traveling Lane", and "Passing Lane".

mackerski

The sad fact is that Irish drivers seem to have difficulty holding more than one helpful trick in their mind at once. This leads to the compulsion to jump into the overtaking lane prior to junctions without regard to the cars that might already be in the overtaking lane.

According to the letter of the law, you are not supposed to enter the overtaking lane except to overtake. You could take the view that, if you see that a car needs to enter the motorway, your manouevre is a valid one to overtake that car. I would concur with this view - it is valid to "overtake" the entering vehicle, as long as it is valid for you to enter the overtaking lane. Crucially, vehicles already in the overtaking lane are in no way obliged to yield to you in this instance, and it's a poor efficiency that transfers the problem of a slow car joining the mainline to a faster car already on it.

So what do you do to make life easier for entering traffic when you can't (shouldn't) move into the overtaking lane? You could always leave sufficient space between you and the car in front. Radical, I realise, but sometimes you need to try sh!t...

Dermot

corktina

the bit that Irish drivers dont get (and that on the whole UK drivers do) is to be courteous and considerate and above all to ANTICIPATE......

the entry lane is an acceleration alne....it also requires that the occupants of the inside lane make room for merging......by adjusting their speed too (and I dont mean speeding up deliberately to stop you getting in, which is sadly nearly the norm at times...)

Lennoxschips

what i don't like about the UK motorway design, which ireland seems to have copied, is that the merging lanes merge immediately with the motorway

it's done differently in holland, as you can kind of see in this picture:


the merging lane (denoted by the block markings) is very long, runs parrallel to the motorway lanes and allows you to find a gap. you are also allowed to undertake in a merging lane, meaning you can move up ahead and merge there if you see a good gap ahead

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Wishbone Ash wrote:

This is sure to cause extra tailbacks, delays and frustration.

Magnificent!!

NewDubliner

darkman2 wrote:

Just read in todays 'Northside people' that Senator Tom Morrissey was quoted as saying the traffic on the M50 would get worse when the port tunnel opens 'in JANUARY' OMFG ive had it with these idiots.....because if this is true thats what they are, make no mistake about it:mad: :mad: :mad:

Ther's more to come, the 'decentralisation' project is set to add even more traffic as Dublin-based staff will start commuting out of the city along the M50. Commuting in the opposite direction will be the new tenants of the vacated office buildings.

Hotblack Desiato

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I take it you are not a very advanced driver HelterSkelter? :rolleyes:
"As you approach and pass an entrance slip road, keep an eye on traffic about to join the motorway. If it is safe for you to move from the left hand lane to the next lane it is considerate to do so in order to make life easier for the driver joining the motorway, as well as to keep yourself out of trouble. If a slip road is particularly busy, this tactic is particularly appropriate".

But that is written with the drivers of private cars (and perhaps motorcycles) in mind. Certainly not HGVs. Given that HGVs are supposed to obey a speed limit of 80km/h, and their lumbering acceleration on the slightest uphill gradient, it cannot be conducive to optimum traffic flow to expect HGVs to move into lane 2 at every junction. Better for them to stay in lane 1 tbh, the main problem with HGVs on Irish motoways is their illegal use of lane 2.

Wishbone Ash

bk wrote:

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the majority of Lorries leave the port area at non peak times, so it shouldn't have that big of an effect.

They leave at all times. Ferry times are irrelevant as many trucks go to the port to pick up containers/trailers/loads stored there

As a resident of Griffith Avenue, I couldn't be happier, no more convoys of 18 wheelers rumbling by me when I'm on my bike

They should not be on Griffith Avenue anyway (unless delivering) as that has a 3.5 tonne weight restriction.

18 wheelers are very rare in Ireland as most trucks use 'super single' tyre/wheel combinations. Most five axle rigs will have 12 wheels (6 on the unit & 6 on the trailer), six axle usually have 14 wheels (8 on the unit six on the trailer).

ninja900 wrote:

But that is written with the drivers of private cars (and perhaps motorcycles) in mind.

Point accepted.

bk

Wishbone Ash wrote:

They leave at all times. Ferry times are irrelevant as many trucks go to the port to pick up containers/trailers/loads stored there

I was just giving my experience, I rarely see them around the Griffith Avenue, East Wall areas at rush hour.

Wishbone Ash wrote:

They should not be on Griffith Avenue anyway (unless delivering) as that has a 3.5 tonne weight restriction.

Your kidding right? Whole convoys of them on Griffith Avenue is a daily occurrence, they seem to be heading from the east wall area, along Griffith Avenue, onto the Swords road and off up to the M50. They rumble pass me on my bike every day.

And what would they be delivering of Griffith Avenue, it is almost 100% residential, there isn't as much as a Centra on the road (they are a few off it).

Wishbone Ash wrote:

18 wheelers are very rare in Ireland as most trucks use 'super single' tyre/wheel combinations. Most five axle rigs will have 12 wheels (6 on the unit & 6 on the trailer), six axle usually have 14 wheels (8 on the unit six on the trailer).

You know what I mean, maybe not 18 wheelers, but large articulated lorries, probably the 12 and 14 wheelers you describe.

shoegirl

bk wrote:

As a resident of Griffith Avenue, I couldn't be happier, no more convoys of 18 wheelers rumbling by me when I'm on my bike.

Not to mention the roads being made bits of by vehicles that were never supposed to be on these roads in the first place. I used to work on Griffith Ave (ok it was over 5 years ago) and I'm sure that there were restrictions on vehicle weights on that road even in the 90s. Correct me if I am wrong but HGVs are not supposed to be on that road anyway.

Wishbone Ash

bk wrote:

I rarely see them around the Griffith Avenue, East Wall areas at rush hour.
Whole convoys of them on Griffith Avenue is a daily occurrence, they seem to be heading from the east wall area, along Griffith Avenue,

When they are travelling in convoy it usually means that they have come off the boat. They are also there throughout the day but probably not as obvious. I also see them on Griffith Avenue regularly but they are not legally allowed to use it. They are supposed to travel further up the Malahide road and across Collin's Avenue.

Your kidding right?

Nope.

onto the Swords road and off up to the M50.

Most of these trucks would be heading North. South/West bound trucks would prefer to use the quays.

And what would they be delivering of Griffith Avenue, it is almost 100% residential, there isn't as much as a Centra on the road

I realise that. I was merely making the point that a truck driver is only allowed to enter a weight restricted area if he is making a delivery and has no alternative route. He could be delivering furniture - most furniture trucks would be over 3.5 tonnes. Refuse trucks would also be exempt. But I know what you mean.

shoegirl wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong but HGVs are not supposed to be on that road anyway.

Correct.

markpb

shoegirl wrote:

Not to mention the roads being made bits of by vehicles that were never supposed to be on these roads in the first place. I used to work on Griffith Ave (ok it was over 5 years ago) and I'm sure that there were restrictions on vehicle weights on that road even in the 90s. Correct me if I am wrong but HGVs are not supposed to be on that road anyway.

As far as I can remember, they're allowed to go east on Collins Avenue and west on Griffith Avenue but not in the other direction(s). To be fair, Griffith avenue is one of the nicest places to cycle even with the trucks.

Wishbone Ash

markpb wrote:

As far as I can remember, they're allowed to go east on Collins Avenue and west on Griffith Avenue but not in the other direction(s).

Now that I think of it you are probably right. There is a restriction sign on the Drumcondra end and they tightened up the corner several years ago to make it very difficult to make a that left eastbound turn (although some still try it). That would probably explain why so many trucks freely travel westbound on it. I used to think that they were taking a risk! Must have a look for signs at the far end next time I'm there. In my experience it is unusual to have a weight restriction in one direction but you live and learn.

To be fair, Griffith avenue is one of the nicest places to cycle even with the trucks.

Yes, it's a beautiful Avenue.

Bluetonic

markpb wrote:

As far as I can remember, they're allowed to go east on Collins Avenue and west on Griffith Avenue but not in the other direction(s). To be fair, Griffith avenue is one of the nicest places to cycle even with the trucks.

They not allowed to travel east on Collins Avenue coming off the N1, they are supposed to use the N32 off the M1 since late last year.

Wishbone Ash

Bluetonic wrote:

They not allowed to travel east on Collins Avenue coming off the N1, they are supposed to use the N32 off the M1 since late last year.

Unless they are coming from an area within the M50 radius. There are a lot of industrial estates/haulage companies operating in the Santry/Ballymun area.

_Kaiser_

Simple fact of life is that the current Rules of the Road - which some people here fall back on as a "default, catch-all" answer - is 10 years out of date and regardless, no set of Rules can predict every practical driving situation.

What's needed most in this country is cop-on and common sense on the roads, not more Rules and Penalties that are enforced in the usual haphazard manner by our largely amateurish, unprofessional, and corrupt excuse for a police force.

As for this specific example, if it's clear and safe to do so, I'll always move over to allow traffic to merge. Not purely as a courtesy but as a safety measure given the wildly varying standards of driving on the roads these days.

mackerski

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Simple fact of life is that the current Rules of the Road - which some people here fall back on as a "default, catch-all" answer - is 10 years out of date and regardless, no set of Rules can predict every practical driving situation.

The Road Traffic Acts are definitive, the ROTR are not. According to the law, you may only use the overtaking lane to overtake. That this has been the law for a long time doesn't take away from this.

Kaiser2000 wrote:

As for this specific example, if it's clear and safe to do so, I'll always move over to allow traffic to merge. Not purely as a courtesy but as a safety measure given the wildly varying standards of driving on the roads these days.

If it's clear and safe, then fair enough, but you might also like to consider whether it's necessary - perhaps you already do. I'm a little troubled by your use of the word "always" to describe a procedure that's actually a tad dubious already.

IMHO, you should go easy on evangelising the practice - even if you (and I and others) can tell the difference between when it's wise and when it isn't, there's a generation of drivers who drift into the overtaking lane as they approach junctions, whether anybody needs to be let in or not. Even the people that erect the road signs seem to think it's what you're supposed to do.

Dermot

Wishbone Ash

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Simple fact of life is that the current Rules of the Road - which some people here fall back on as a "default, catch-all" answer - is 10 years out of date and regardless, .

The Rules of the Road is not an interpretation of the law - it's aim is to promote safety and courtesy.

no set of Rules can predict every practical driving situation

The principal Road Traffic Statutory Instruments and Bye Laws would have to cover every practical situation. There are about 20 of them. A Garda can only charge a motorist with an offence if it appears in the Acts/Bye Laws.

_Kaiser_

mackerski wrote:

IMHO, you should go easy on evangelising the practice - even if you (and I and others) can tell the difference between when it's wise and when it isn't, there's a generation of drivers who drift into the overtaking lane as they approach junctions, whether anybody needs to be let in or not. Even the people that erect the road signs seem to think it's what you're supposed to do.

Dermot

Fair point, I did think about adding in the need for education/training of drivers as well as them having them having a bit of cop-on. I'm not saying one should make lane changes unnecessarily.

bk

markpb wrote:

As far as I can remember, they're allowed to go east on Collins Avenue and west on Griffith Avenue but not in the other direction(s). To be fair, Griffith avenue is one of the nicest places to cycle even with the trucks.

Yes, I love cycling it, other then the trucks, that is why I look forward to them being gone.

BTW That explains it, I often see trucks going West, but very rarely going East. It makes sense as there are lots of schools on the Easterly side of the road.