What hand behind me bets like this

Bandana boy

1-2 6 max NLhe
So i have been at the table for 10 mins and against a player i know to well i drop a buy in with $200 pre flop on 77

So i re buy and have stack up to 280
not sure what rest if table must think I am like
So on CO i get AQ couple of limpers so i make it 10 to play
both blinds BB being my "friend" from earlier call
Pot 36
Flop
Q22 rainbow checked to me i make it 25 to play SB who covers calls BB folds
Pot 86
Turn 8 completes rainbow

Checked to me I often check here but lead for 50 and SB pushs
pot if i call 580 and 200 to me

Action

luckylucky

Bandana boy wrote:

1-2 6 max NLhe
So i have been at the table for 10 mins and against a player i know to well i drop a buy in with $200 pre flop on 77

Am I reading this right, you lost 200 preflop with 77! Now i'm not saying I've never done anything mad but losing a buy-in pre-flop with 77 is absolutely awful play - sorry can't dress this up in any shape or form - no other way of putting it really.

Bandana boy wrote:

So i re buy and have stack up to 280
not sure what rest if table must think I am like
So on CO i get AQ couple of limpers so i make it 10 to play
both blinds BB being my "friend" from earlier call
Pot 36
Flop
Q22 rainbow checked to me i make it 25 to play SB who covers calls BB folds
Pot 86
Turn 8 completes rainbow

Checked to me I often check here but lead for 50 and SB pushs
pot if i call 580 and 200 to me

Action

Well he knows you'll move with not much but he probably has you down as a fish, I think if he can't beat your hand but he thinks your betting with not much he will just call, that would seem like the normal play, I reckon he has the 2 and he's hoping you are the fish that your loss with 77 makes you appear and call.
In this situation I think it's a fold therefore.

Ste05

Bandana boy wrote:

1-2 6 max NLhe
So i have been at the table for 10 mins and against a player i know to well i drop a buy in with $200 pre flop on 77

How on earth did you do this?? :eek: :eek:

I'd say that's the key to this hand.. i.e were you too aggressive or were you a calling station. Also how you played that PF will give us a range of hands the SB puts you on, but, as Lucky says it sound like he's pegged you for a fish..

ianmc38

Getting it all-in preflop with 77 is fine in many situations. If I think villain has AJ+ or 2 broadways i'll pop it all in without hesitation.

Whether I call here depends on the BBs calling range. If he's the type of moron who'll play with 23s or A2o when raised then it's an easy fold. if he's more ABC, i'd be inclined to call.

Gholimoli

you said you often check this behinf but decided to lead here for 50 on thr turn.
can i ask you why you often check this behinf and why you decided to lead here for 50?

Bandana boy

I might post the 77 hand later not sure if it is a good move or not but i knew villain very well and he made a move that according to my notes was PP 22-TT so i decided to test his metal and it didnt work out
but to the casual observer I would defo look a bit nuts now this might be a good thing in this situation
does he ever push with a weak Q or 99-JJ here ?

Ste05

ianmc38 wrote:

Getting it all-in preflop with 77 is fine in many situations. If I think villain has AJ+ or 2 broadways i'll pop it all in without hesitation.

I can't think of any times it's OK to get All-In for 200BB's Pre-Flop in a cash game with 77.

Come on Ian, when is it OK to get it All-In PF with 77? Are you suggesting over-calling, over-betting, or playing re-re-raised pots with 77??

Sure a donkey could have AJ, AK, AQ, KQ, and be willing to play for Stacks Pre-Flop with them, (if they play with 66 or 55 then OMFG!!!) but if they're going All-In Pre-Flop with any of these just wait and he'll give you his chips later without having to flip a coin for them.

Just go and Play Roulette and put it on Black. :rolleyes:

Poker & Pints

I beleive it is a fold here....the blinds called and the limpers folded. As above, what was this guys range? If he is loose, he may have A2...if he is tight he may have smooth called oyu with AA, KK or even QQ(unlikely)....I think in this situation your beat either way.

Bandana boy

Gholimoli wrote:

you said you often check this behinf but decided to lead here for 50 on thr turn.
can i ask you why you often check this behinf and why you decided to lead here for 50?

Why i often check here is I dont believe that i am going to be called on such a dry board by a hand that is behind me

Why i led this time was i felt that i might get looked up in this situation because my table image would be pretty weak after the 77 went wrong

Bandana boy

ianmc38 wrote:

If he's the type of moron who'll play with 23s or A2o when raised then it's an easy fold. if he's more ABC, i'd be inclined to call.

i dont have much on this villain but i would have put his play since i sat down as pretty ABC

ianmc38

I called an all-in for 90ish BBs preflop the other day with 22 from a donk who'd been going all-in every hand. He had K8s. And won.

Obviously against a regular player getting it all-in preflop with 77 sucks, but there are quite a few in my buddy list who i'd be happy to do this with. Playing raised and reraised pots with 77 also sucks. By the sound of the OP it was a failed bluff attempt, probably a little extreme with 100BBs.

Like most situations, it's player and read dependent...

Ste05

Bandana boy wrote:

I might post the 77 hand later not sure if it is a good move or not but i knew villain very well and he made a move that according to my notes was PP 22-TT so i decided to test his metal and it didnt work out
but to the casual observer I would defo look a bit nuts now this might be a good thing in this situation
does he ever push with a weak Q or 99-JJ here ?

Well by the sounds of it you the SB probably thinks you looked overly aggressive PF with the 77, so I think he has AA, KK, QQ and probably even JJ here 0% of the time.

So I could safely rule them out of the equation completely.

Then we need to look at his range of hands that might push here. As you say he seems like an ABC player. By the looks of it he has you down as a bit too aggressive (although without any Post Flop history it's hard to say that for certain)

Therefore he probably puts you on a PP or a big A, I actually think he will push in this spot with KQ, (most likely) AQ, (less likely) A2 (a slight possibility, although I'd expect him to let you do the betting for him with this) and 88 (unlucky if he has this), and so I'd say you could possibly make a crying call here. But it would be very much a gut instinct kind of time...

Ste05

ianmc38 wrote:

Like most situations, it's player and read dependent...

Very true, but generally I'll almost never be All-In for 100 BB's with 77 unless I know that his range includes hands with only 1 over card in it, and that is very very rare. I think we should start up the World Wide Conservation Foundation for the Preservation of Fish who Push with A2-A6 (WWCFPFPAA) (A bit of a mouthful, but I think it'd be a worthy cause, maybe BigD could look into this for his 1% Fund )

luckylucky

Bandana boy wrote:

Why i often check here is I dont believe that i am going to be called on such a dry board by a hand that is behind me

Why i led this time was i felt that i might get looked up in this situation because my table image would be pretty weak after the 77 went wrong

Nothing wrong with your thinking here, I think it's definitely a fine value bet, however you got your answer from him your Q is very likely to be no good!
btw what did you actually do?

careca

The very fact that he could have you pegged as loose, would be my reason to fold. If you are loose you could have anything, including the 2. The fact that he's not worried about you having a 2, would suggest that he has one or can beat a 2 (ie QQ).

Lots of mentions of a 2 in that reply

Gholimoli

Bandana boy wrote:

Why i often check here is I dont believe that i am going to be called on such a dry board by a hand that is behind me

Why i led this time was i felt that i might get looked up in this situation because my table image would be pretty weak after the 77 went wrong

ppl keep saying how the standard is really awful and bad in lower limit cash games online.
On reason that the standard is so bad is that ppl don’t adjust all that much to the way you have been playing which means “table image” doesn’t really effect things that much and deffo not as much as you think.
This is even more true for tight players and even more true for ABC players.
They play their hand and they look at the board and play accordingly.
The fact that you blew 100BB on 77 is not going to get a tight ABC player stacked on a Q22 rainbow board.
You bet got called by a tight ABC player ,your much better off checking behind on the turn.

cardshark202

Ste05 wrote:

Very true, but generally I'll almost never be All-In for 100 BB's with 77 unless I know that his range includes hands with only 1 over card in it, and that is very very rare. I think we should start up the World Wide Conservation Foundation for the Preservation of Fish who Push with A2-A6 (WWCFPFPAA) (A bit of a mouthful, but I think it'd be a worthy cause, maybe BigD could look into this for his 1% Fund )

Ok you have, $400, in front of you, donk has $1000, blinds are 1-2, He has pushed the last 25 hands and a shorty has called him once, he's shown 67o. He does it again and you have 77. This is an insta call. If he's doing this with any two 22 in an call too because its a slight fave.

I know this my seem like a slight exaggeration but there are often situations slightly similiar to this where it is ok to get it in with a low-medium PP for over 100BBs.

Ste05

Well in that case his range would definitely include hands that only have 1 over card, hence fitting my criteria for a call. but again this kind of thing is so rare they're not really worth discussing. And it's certainly a buddy list kind of scenario. And I doubt many people here are willing to share their buddy lists.

Or are they ?????

luckylucky

cardshark202 wrote:

Ok you have, $400, in front of you, donk has $1000, blinds are 1-2, He has pushed the last 25 hands and a shorty has called him once, he's shown 67o. He does it again and you have 77. This is an insta call. If he's doing this with any two 22 in an call too because its a slight fave.

I know this my seem like a slight exaggeration but there are often situations slightly similiar to this where it is ok to get it in with a low-medium PP for over 100BBs.

If you know with about 80-90% certainty that he could have any 2 cards then yeah I agree it's an insta-call.

Now I know there are donks out there who will keep putting all their money all-in like this guy after been seen with a crap hand - but it really takes an uber special moron to keep playing so aggressive when he has been seen with 76o, maybe this time he is hoping for action! If of course he has been going all-in virtually all the time several more times after that 76o then yeah fair enough you got ur extra special moron and probability is on your side for the call.

Other than that type of special case though I can't see how getting all-in with a pair of 7s before flop can be right.

ianmc38

Ste05 wrote:

And I doubt many people here are willing to share their buddy lists.

Or are they ?????

"Edydeagle"

Player notes: Be careful when you hold AK and he bets on a K23 board

luckylucky

Ste05 wrote:

Well in that case his range would definitely include hands that only have 1 over card, hence fitting my criteria for a call. but again this kind of thing is so rare they're not really worth discussing. And it's certainly a buddy list kind of scenario. And I doubt many people here are willing to share their buddy lists.

Or are they ?????

I have no prob on sharing info, at least some info anyway. That's what we are all doing here anyway trying to help each other out in a legitmate way anyway.
Maybe trading of pokertracker databases might be an idea - though hard to put into practice I guess.

delanec8

I think the villain has KQ 100% of the time. However i think the K will hit the river 75% of the time.

Bandana boy

The 77 move is imo a big factor here
and it sounds like it might be worth its own thread but i will tack it on here

Villain is PPP reg
Villain is overly aggresive imo but appears to be a winning player
i have a lot of notes on player and when he reraises a reraise it is always a sml pocket pair the more aggresive he is in his re-raise the smaller the pocket pair
I have 5 incidences of him doing this and getting called
he had TT 88 55 33 22

So Co raises (a serial postion whore like me) i have 77 on button and reraise BB our friend who covers re-raises Co folds and i push he calls and shows 88
So worked out to be a disaster but when his range includes 22-66 i think not as bad a move as it initially looks

Anywho i was within seconds of folding but i felt that no hand that beats me raises me here so i called and sure enough he has KQ well played by me

the K on river was nice for him though :-(

luckylucky

Bandana boy wrote:

The 77 move is imo a big factor here
and it sounds like it might be worth its own thread but i will tack it on here

Villain is PPP reg
Villain is overly aggresive imo but appears to be a winning player
i have a lot of notes on player and when he reraises a reraise it is always a sml pocket pair the more aggresive he is in his re-raise the smaller the pocket pair
I have 5 incidences of him doing this and getting called
he had TT 88 55 33 22

So Co raises (a serial postion whore like me) i have 77 on button and reraise BB our friend who covers re-raises Co folds and i push he calls and shows 88
So worked out to be a disaster but when his range includes 22-66 i think not as bad a move as it initially looks

Your call with 77 definitely appears to make more sense now at least given this information but are you confidently able to rule out him having bigger pocket pairs? It would still be a bit puzzling for me, if he is prepared to re-re raise all-in with 2s then surely he would do same with qq, kk, aa!?

Also I think you have only 5 incidences to go on not quite enough to feel happy about calling an all-in with 7s. Still your call is understandable now, I still think it's one I choose not to make though, if I had 9s or tens then I think ok lets do this.

Bandana boy wrote:

Anywho i was within seconds of folding but i felt that no hand that beats me raises me here so i called and sure enough he has KQ well played by me

the K on river was nice for him though :-(

I guess KQ was a very likely hand for him. I suppose he could have easily put you on QRag, I think most players including myself would have thought I was ahead with the KQ so I don't blame him for the move here.

Still though for you it was about the only legitimate hand he could have been making that move with that you could beat and I disagree with your comment no hand that beats me raises me here if I think you are fishy enough I would raise you here with a hand that can beat you! granted i probably do it with KQ too!

I still feel overall given the info you have provided a fold normally would be the the right play, though if you are really sure there is no way he would have called a raise with a 2 it might just swing it for a call.

Gholimoli

Bandana boy wrote:

Anywho i was within seconds of folding but i felt that no hand that beats me raises me here so i called and sure enough he has KQ well played by me

the K on river was nice for him though :-(

so you think hands that beat you dont raise you but hands that you beat will raise?
i like your logic.

luckylucky

Hmm just thinking about it some more, the KQ possibility is very very likely given pre flop action isn't it, if you can rule out that he is a donk who would call with A2 32s etc then given this factor and the odds you have to make the call I'm beginning to sway to thinking you made the right call after all.

Bandana boy

Gholimoli wrote:

so you think hands that beat you dont raise you but hands that you beat will raise?
i like your logic.

G man thats not a rule of thumb now

in this incidence not as crazy as it sounds
So hands that beat me here
Sets,trips and overpairs
overpairs would have showed by now
not many hands left and why would they give me such a tough bet to call when they are a million miles ahead of me

Gholimoli

Bandana boy wrote:

G man thats not a rule of thumb now

in this incidence not as crazy as it sounds
So hands that beat me here
Sets,trips and overpairs
overpairs would have showed by now
not many hands left and why would they give me such a tough bet to call when they are a million miles ahead of me

when you say over pairs whould have shown by now ,do you not think a push here is a way of showing?
im not ssaying it was a good call or a bad one but what im saying is your reason for calling is a bad one.
"no hands that could beat me would raise he here" is hardly a reason to call that big bet on that board.
big bets genrally mean big hand and its not the other way around.

luckylucky

Bandana boy wrote:

and why would they give me such a tough bet to call when they are a million miles ahead of me

LOL because from your previous 77 play they get the smell of kippers coming off their monitor

I think the one and only thing factor but itis such a huge factor is that KQ is by far the most likely hand he could have had pre flop that he would still be in the hand with.
Other hands like QQ,KK or AA would have surely surfaced by now as you say and almost definitely before the flop I would have thought so I agree with you there.

As I say I have had a change of heart and I think your call was right as the KQ appears so likely but it's not a call I make with huge confidence i'll tell ya and I think it's still a borderline decision.

Bandana boy

defo a very tough call and i came within seconds of folding
TP is not a hand i like to play for this much chips normally

Ste05

Gholi, the Villain NEVER has AA, KK or QQ here.

And I agree with Bandana boy here, hands like 1010, 99, KQ, QJ, all might bet but would be unlikely to call a big bet.

It's just the Gap concept in reverse.

Hectorjelly

Not getting all in with 77 from time to time is wrong, not the other way around.

Id check this turn but if I bet im calling all in.

AmarilloFats

$200 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, July 13, 17:55:07 ET 2000
Table Table 107472 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 5: LeKid222 ( $185.94 )
Seat 6: nicole222222 ( $1442.81 )
Seat 3: DMACM ( $262.89 )
Seat 2: HEROOOO ( $200 )
Seat 1: vedat80 ( $220 )
Seat 4: MrStation33 ( $183 )
LeKid222 posts small blind [$1].
nicole222222 posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HEROOOO [ 8c 8s ]
vedat80 folds.
HEROOOO raises [$7].
DMACM folds.
MrStation33 folds.
LeKid222 calls [$6].
nicole222222 raises [$25].
HEROOOO is all-In [$193]
LeKid222 folds.
nicole222222 calls [$173].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9d, Js, Qh ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9h ]
** Dealing River ** [ 4d ]
nicole222222 shows [ Ac, 7c ] a pair of nines.
HEROOOO shows [ 8c, 8s ] two pairs, nines and eights.
HEROOOO wins $404 from the main pot with two pairs, nines and eights.