Digital Terrestial TV (Freeview) in Sligo

magnumlady

Hi all. about 6 months ago I bought a Freeview DTT MICO Set Top Box in ASDA Store in Enniskillen.

We live on the Tubbercurry side of Sligo and get very good reception with hardly any snow of Analogue BBC1/2/ITV1/CH4 through a high gain (I think its 21 Element Hi-Gain) UHF Aerial. We seem to be picking up the Signal from the Brougher Mountains in Enniskillen because ITV1 (UTV) is on UHF Ch25. The Aerial has a Amplifier on the mast and input for UHF and VHF aerial and then the mixed outlet and the amplifier power is fed by a 12volt transformer box at the back of the TV.

If I plug in the UHF plug into the MICO Digital Freeview box it searches for the channels available - after a while it finds all BBC channels and BBC Radio but no other channels like UTV & CH4 only BBC channels only. The strangest thing is that the transmitter listed in the setup is saying that the BBC channels are from Divis and not from Brougher Mountains which is strange because Brougher Mountains is much nearer to us than Divis (which is near Belfast) and we are getting our UHF Analogue stations from Brougher Mountains.

I am thinking of ordering a Group A High Gain Aerial off the Internet. Should work out about 60.00 Euro delivered to Ireland and trying that out on what I understand is that at the moment I think our existing Aerial on the roof is an old 21-68 Wideband Aerial and from what I have been reading somewhere is that a Wideband group Aerial is less powerful in gain than a Group A aerial and I am thinking maybe if I buy this Aerial off the net and give that a try in the north direction then that might pick up the signal from Brougher Mountains rather than the Divis transmitter. What do you reckon?

Any helpful ideas please?

Thanks a lot.

Sponge Bob

looks very well researched to me. Surely someone in Sligo will sell you groups a b and c aerials so that you can retire the wideband if you choose ???

also double check the polarity on the bbc mux vs the itv mux

lawhec

We live on the Tubbercurry side of Sligo and get very good reception with hardly any snow of Analogue BBC1/2/ITV1/CH4 through a high gain (I think its 21 Element Hi-Gain) UHF Aerial. We seem to be picking up the Signal from the Brougher Mountains in Enniskillen because ITV1 (UTV) is on UHF Ch25.

Brougher Analogue - BBC1 ch22, UTV ch25, BBC2 ch28, Ch4 ch32. Its Brougher alright.

The Aerial has a Amplifier on the mast and input for UHF and VHF aerial and then the mixed outlet and the amplifier power is fed by a 12volt transformer box at the back of the TV.

Sounds a normal setup to me, I assume the VHF aerial is there for RTÉ1 & RTÉ2. Do you have an aerial for TV3 & TG4?

If I plug in the UHF plug into the MICO Digital Freeview box it searches for the channels available - after a while it finds all BBC channels and BBC Radio but no other channels like UTV & CH4 only BBC channels only.

Can you reply with what channels you're picking up? In particular, the following... BBC1 (1), UTV (3) (I know you're not getting this but its for reception reasons), Five (5), Cbeebies (71), BBC4 (10), Sky News (82) and TMF (21). The number in brackets is the LCN number, or the number it should appear on the STB.

The strangest thing is that the transmitter listed in the setup is saying that the BBC channels are from Divis and not from Brougher Mountains which is strange because Brougher Mountains is much nearer to us than Divis (which is near Belfast) and we are getting our UHF Analogue stations from Brougher Mountains.

This is not a fault. The signals originate from Divis but are broadcast from Brougher Mountain. Transmitters are grouped according to the source of input for programmes in the UK, and Divis does this for all transmitters for N.Ireland. You can check this by going to UTV (analogue) and firing up Teletext and on page 100 press reveal. On the right hand side of your screen you should see "DIV" which means that the teletext data input into the analogue signal originated at Divis Mountain.

I am thinking of ordering a Group A High Gain Aerial off the Internet. Should work out about 60.00 Euro delivered to Ireland and trying that out on what I understand is that at the moment I think our existing Aerial on the roof is an old 21-68 Wideband Aerial and from what I have been reading somewhere is that a Wideband group Aerial is less powerful in gain than a Group A aerial

A good group A aerial directed at Brougher Mountain should give you a better chance at receiving missing DTT channels over, especially at the "fringes" of the service area of the transmitter. Wideband UHF aerials, especially those at the cheaper end of the market, are nortorious for poor performance in the lower end of the UHF band where Brougher transmits.

My own choice would be the Blake DMX10A, one of the few aerials that are Grade 1 by the CAI benchmark test, though it may or may not be enough in your situation where every last bit of signal matters. Others here swear by Hirschmanns - big but apparently very good.

also double check the polarity on the bbc mux vs the itv mux

All DTT multiplexes from Brougher Mountain are horizontal polarized, like the analogue transmissions.

magnumlady

Sponge Bob wrote:

looks very well researched to me. Surely someone in Sligo will sell you groups a b and c aerials so that you can retire the wideband if you choose ???

Thanks. I am sure someone will sell me a group A aerial in Sligo and they would charge a pretty high price as well I should imagine. I could get a decent priced one delivered to Ireland from this place: http://www.tvaerials.com/

I see a Wideband (Ch21-69) high gain aerial the other day in Homebase DIY in Sligo for 60.00 Euro but i was looking to get a Group A aerial for a better signal.

magnumlady

Northern Correspondent wrote:

Brougher Analogue - BBC1 ch22, UTV ch25, BBC2 ch28, Ch4 ch32. Its Brougher alright.

Thanks for your reply and help. Yep those are my Analogue channels for my BBC & ITV.

Northern Correspondent wrote:

Sounds a normal setup to me, I assume the VHF aerial is there for RTÉ1 & RTÉ2. Do you have an aerial for TV3 & TG4?

Yes the VHF aerial is there for RTE1&2 I think I am getting that from Truskmore in Sligo. I am getting my TV3 & TG4 through the high gain UHF aerial.

Northern Correspondent wrote:

Can you reply with what channels you're picking up? In particular, the following... BBC1 (1), UTV (3) (I know you're not getting this but its for reception reasons), Five (5), Cbeebies (71), BBC4 (10), Sky News (82) and TMF (21). The number in brackets is the LCN number, or the number it should appear on the STB.

Right, on the UHF Analogue I am getting BBC1NI (ch22),BBC2NI(ch28), UTV (ch25), Ch4 (ch32) TV3 (ch?- up in the 60's), TV4 (again up in the 60's).

On the Digital Set-Top Freeview Box it gets only these channels: BBC1NI(1), BBC2NI(2), BBCthree(7), CBBC(70), BBCNews24(80), BBCi(105), BBCradio Ulster(719), BBC Radio Foyle (720) and thats it - no UTV or CH4 or Ch5.

It looks to me like its only picking up MUX1 and not the other MUX's.

Northern Correspondent wrote:

This is not a fault. The signals originate from Divis but are broadcast from Brougher Mountain. Transmitters are grouped according to the source of input for programmes in the UK, and Divis does this for all transmitters for N.Ireland. You can check this by going to UTV (analogue) and firing up Teletext and on page 100 press reveal. On the right hand side of your screen you should see "DIV" which means that the teletext data input into the analogue signal originated at Divis Mountain.

yes, DIV shows up when I do that on Teletext.

Northern Correspondent wrote:

A good group A aerial directed at Brougher Mountain should give you a better chance at receiving missing DTT channels over, especially at the "fringes" of the service area of the transmitter. Wideband UHF aerials, especially those at the cheaper end of the market, are nortorious for poor performance in the lower end of the UHF band where Brougher transmits.

I was thinking about getting the TRIAX UNIX52 Group A or a Blaxe DMX10 Group A from that website. 31.99 UK pounds + 16UK pounds delivery to Ireland. Not a bad price I suppose.

I have uploaded some pictures of the screen of the Set-Top box of the channels it found and the signal strength on fotopic: http://morephotos.fotopic.net/c1017917.html password if it asks for one is: freeview

Thanks again,

byte

Any chance of a snap of your current aerial.

You may need to consider a UNIX100 as opposed to UNIX52 for extra gain. Or better still, a Hirshmann equivalent (can't think of the model offhand) though the Hirshmann are a fair bit more expensive.

Kathrein make fantastic high-gain aerials too, but are pretty hard to get here and even more expensive than the Hirshmann.

Smeagol

I'm using this one: Hirschmann FESA 817 N37

byte

Smeagol wrote:

I'm using this one: Hirschmann FESA 817 N37

That's the one I was thinking of. Good aerial that and I'd prefer it over the UNIX100

Galway

personally I find the UNIX 100 better than the FESA or the Antiference XG18

byte

Really? What do you find better? I'm just curious.

BTW, I'm not saying that there is bad gain with the Unix100 in comparison to the FESA, but the life of a UNIX100 is much shorter (in my experience).

I suppose it's all possible also that some aerials work better in different conditions compared to others. Due to where you are in the transmitter lobe.

magnumlady

I am just trying to understand why it is with my present aerial though that I can get all the channels on Multiplex One but I cannot receive any of the other Multiplex's.

Surely the power is the same output for all Multiplex's and I must be getting a good enough signal for all MUX's if my STB receiver is picking up MUX1.

So does anyone know the answer to that one? if I m getting a good enough signal from Brougher to pick up MUX1 (BBC) why cant the STB pick up the other MUX's?

on a slightly different subject does anyone know if Digital Terrestrial Boxes on the market have any kind of 'secret menu' on them which can change the sensitivity of the box by inputting a code on the remote control or is this not possible?

Cheers.

lawhec

I am getting my TV3 & TG4 through the high gain UHF aerial.

That's a bit of a compromise but if it works, then all's fine and well. If you decide to get a Group A for Brougher, then you might also need a Group C/D aerial for TV3 & TG4 as well, along with a respective grouped combiner.

It looks to me like its only picking up MUX1 and not the other MUX's.

It is indeed only multiplex 1 you're picking up.

I have uploaded some pictures of the screen of the Set-Top box of the channels it found and the signal strength on fotopic: http://morephotos.fotopic.net/c1017917.html password if it asks for one is: freeview

Ah ha! It runs the "Vestel" software. If you can, go into the manual tuning menu... Menu > Settings > Installiation > Manual Search. Key in the following channel numbers... 23, 26, 29, 33 and 34 and see what signal quality and signal level it gives. In terms of signal quality these boxes tend to work right down to poor quality levels with only 10-15% levels in some cases.

I am just trying to understand why it is with my present aerial though that I can get all the channels on Multiplex One but I cannot receive any of the other Multiplex's.

Surely the power is the same output for all Multiplex's and I must be getting a good enough signal for all MUX's if my STB receiver is picking up MUX1.

There can be several factors...

When the DTT network in the UK was being laid out, Multiplex 1 was designed to give the maximum coverage and was handed to the BBC. The remaining multiplexes were then decided by coverage, down to Multiplex D having the smallest though the difference in multiplexes has now gotten smaller thanks to channel reallocations and power equalisation schemes.

Multiplex 1 from Brougher Mountain uses channel 30, which locally is a clear channel in that with the exception of small relay in Sligo, no other location close to Brougher Mountain uses this frequency, which is a big help. Multiplexes A-D uses frequencies which are used for analogue television at Holywell Hill in Donegal (outside Derry City) and also by the Castlebar relay - if Castlebar is powerful enough to cause interference, then it'll stop you from receiving these multiplexes unless a highly directional aerial can be used.

Multiplexes 1, B, C and D also use a transmission mode known as 16QAM, as opposed to multiplexes 2 and A which use 64QAM. 16QAM is more resilient to interference and weak signals than 64QAM but carries less data hence less channels, therefore has a better chance at being received in difficult and more fringe conditions.

Also although the multiplexes from Brougher Mountain are reported to be running at the same power, some are more equal than others thanks to the factors like directional patterns from the transmitting aerials etc. Multiplex 2, which carries UTV & Channel 4, is nortorious locally for being tricky to pick up when the rest of the multiplexes are grand. I have an uncle who lives in Omagh who can receive 1, A, B, C and D perfectly but multiplex 2 cannot be got - not even a whisper.

Your receiving aerial can play a big factor. UHF Wideband aerials especially have a gain "slope" where near the centre of the band is where the highest gain lies, with the edges the lowest, with up to 6db or a quarter of the power lost. A grouped aerial has a much flatter response across the narrower range of channels it is designed to receive. I would take an educated guess and say that if you replaced your current UHF aerial with a Group A one, there should be a notable improvement on BBC1 and UTV.

magnumlady

Northern Correspondent wrote:

There can be several factors.......

Thanks ever so much for all that information NC thats very helpful. I think i will go ahead and try out a Group A and see if that brings in the extra MUX's then. I might have more luck then if I can bring in as much signal as possible.

Smeagol

I sometimes can receive ch26 from Brougher, but with the rest I get too much interferences from the analogue channels from Castlebar, 23, 29, 33.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=123958&referrerid=59211&highlight=co-channel

magnumlady

Smeagol wrote:

I sometimes can receive ch26 from Brougher, but with the rest I get too much interferences from the analogue channels from Castlebar, 23, 29, 33.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=123958&referrerid=59211&highlight=co-channel

Sometimes (mainly during high presure / hot weather) I have to pick up my UTV from Ch24 instead of Ch25.

Talking of high pressure when my BBC & ITV & CH4 pictures go liney and jump up and down and the sound goes when I am watching on UHF in the summer sometimes, how could this affect the DTT signal or doesn't the high pressure affect DTT?

ethernet

magnumlady wrote:

Thanks. I am sure someone will sell me a group A aerial in Sligo and they would charge a pretty high price as well I should imagine. I could get a decent priced one delivered to Ireland from this place: http://www.tvaerials.com/

I see a Wideband (Ch21-69) high gain aerial the other day in Homebase DIY in Sligo for 60.00 Euro but i was looking to get a Group A aerial for a better signal.

Try the guy in Charlestown near the O2 store in that TV/electrical shop [on the Sligo side, I think -- I'm not from around there]. That's where I got my kit. Apologies for not knowing his name.

He was moving shop to across the road at the time, but he was very patient with me nonetheless!

Relatives of mine live in Tubbercurry with a similar setup to yours, just no Channel 4 -- using what seemed like a wideband UHF antenna and a horizontally-mounted VHF antenna with an amplifier.

mrdtv

ethernet wrote:

Try the guy in Charlestown near the O2 store in that TV/electrical shop [on the Sligo side, I think -- I'm not from around there]. That's where I got my kit. Apologies for not knowing his name.

He was moving shop to across the road at the time, but he was very patient with me nonetheless!

Relatives of mine live in Tubbercurry with a similar setup to yours, just no Channel 4 -- using what seemed like a wideband UHF antenna and a horizontally-mounted VHF antenna with an amplifier.

Another fantastic antenna make is Fracarro: Italian high gain Yagi specialists. I got one (Fracarro digital gold wideband with masthead amp) from satellite solutions in the UK (Northampton) for about £35 with masthead amp built in (very elegant....) The results were striking in Strangford, Co Down ( no DTT predicted coverage). The existing Group A aerial was OK on the 16QAM services, very iffy on the 64QAM and did not pick up the out-of-band channel. The replacement Fracarro picked up all six DTT multiplexes effortlessly ( C/N: 26dB as read by the SETPAL) and analogue Channel 5 went from snowy to crystal clear. Also perfect Caldbeck analogue, at times Winter Hill, Moel-y-Parc and others with a rotor. This antenna has a very good response across the entire UHF band, its very compact etc. They have their own .com web site....

sligojoek

magnumlady wrote: »

Thanks. I am sure someone will sell me a group A aerial in Sligo and they would charge a pretty high price as well I should imagine. I could get a decent priced one delivered to Ireland from this place: http://www.tvaerials.com/

I see a Wideband (Ch21-69) high gain aerial the other day in Homebase DIY in Sligo for 60.00 Euro but i was looking to get a Group A aerial for a better signal.

Magnumlady, If you go in to Derry Taheney's they have a wideband arial for about €25.

magnumlady

sligojoek wrote: »

Magnumlady, If you go in to Derry Taheney's they have a wideband arial for about €25.

This is an old thread...we got one some time ago. Thanks.

sligojoek

magnumlady wrote: »

This is an old thread...we got one some time ago. Thanks.

Whoops. Just reading the dates now. Sorry bout that.