[Article] Rescue plan for ticket system

Victor

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,2765-2262052,00.html

Rescue plan for ticket system
Richard Oakley

TRANSPORT minister Martin Cullen has moved to rescue Ireland’s integrated ticketing system after a new report into the €30m project found that "urgent" action was needed to ensure it did not end in failure.

This weekend the minister established a high-powered project board that has been told to ensure the technology, commonplace in most advanced countries but long delayed in Ireland, is introduced.

The body is made up of transport chief executives and government officials and is chaired by a former secretary-general of the defence department. It has been asked to set a realistic timetable for the system’s implementation and to advise on how it can be achieved quickly without the complications already experienced.

The move comes after a peer review group study on the project, released to The Sunday Times under the Freedom of Information Act (FOI) early last week, said the launch of the technology had reached a critical stage.

The independent assessors, whose work was overseen by the finance department, called on the minister to act immediately. The document, released in part, said: "An immediate and urgent decision is required on whether the project should proceed and, if so, under what governance arrangements and conditions.

"Essentially, the project is at a point where it is either halted, permanently or temporarily, or goes ahead,"

It also said that a successful integrated ticketing system was vital if plans to increase the

use of public transport were to be successful. It pointed out that such technology has become "the norm in advanced economies".

"Dublin city and the country as a whole is lacking in this regard at present, a situation that has not gone unnoticed by foreign tourists, and it conflicts with the desired image of the country," the review found.

Integrated ticketing was first mooted in 2001, but after years of planning and with €9.5m spent it has ended up behind schedule with no immediate prospect of its launch.

In April the comptroller and auditor-general expressed concern that money was going to consultants rather than being spent on delivery of the technology.

The comptroller’s concerns followed another FOI request by The Sunday Times in February, which revealed that the project had become bogged down in a bitter feud between state agencies, including CIE and the RPA.

In May, Cullen said he had received a consultants’ report that led him to believe that the delay in the system was caused because "nobody knew what they were talking about" and "everyone concentrated on one issue, namely the card".

He said "significant fundamental issues about money transfers and other governance issues were not addressed".

The new project board will now include the chief executives of the RPA, Dublin Bus, Iarnrod Eireann and Bus Eireann. It will include an assistant secretary from the transport department and a representative of private transport interests. David O’Callaghan, a former secretary-general of the defence department, will be chairman.

A spokeswoman for the minister said its main task would be to "oversee the delivery of the project in a timely manner". It will report directly to the minister on what arrangements and procedures are needed.

It is understood that Cullen will bring his plans for the Dublin Transportation Authority (DTA) to cabinet for approval this week.

As reported by The Sunday Times last month, the new body will see current agencies stripped of their powers with CIE losing control of Dublin Bus. The authority will be in charge of the procurement and operation of all public transport in the greater Dublin area. Under the move the Dublin Transportation Office, the planning agency which was set up in 1995, will be abolished.

The DTA will have the power to set fares and will be in charge of projects, some of which are already in the planning stage, such as Dublin’s two metro lines and the underground rail interconnecter between Heuston station and Spencer Dock.

New legislation will be needed to give the authority the necessary powers.

antoinolachtnai

I wrote something about this:

http://www.eire.com/2006/07/11/dont-say-i-didnt-warn-you-integrated-ticketing-crisis/

I think the core of the issue is that the government generally and the various transport agencies and departments in particular don't have a lot of experience managing IT projects. IT projects are quite different in nature from civil engineering projects (which are difficult enough to control).

Chris_533976

How hard can it be to make an integrated ticket system? Only in Ireland would it cause such a bloody fuss. In ANY other country it would be done quickly, easily and efficiently, without all the bull**** that seems to go on here.

SeanW

This isn't even integrated ticketing. It's a new payment system made out to look like "Integrated Ticketing."

REAL integration is like what happens in cities in Germany: where you buy tickets on a zonal basis, validate them (once) then make your journey on any pratical mode or combination of modes of public transport, bus, tram, U Bahn, S Bahn whatever, all on the same ticket.

They do this with plain paper tickets without even so much as a magnetic stripe.

And it works. Beautifully.

TBH I think this sorry make-believe "integrated ticketing" model should be chucked in the bin, and replace with real ticketing integration, which I assure you has absoluetly nothing to do with the technology involved.

popebenny16

Quote of the bloody year:

the delay in the system was caused because "nobody knew what they were talking about" and "everyone concentrated on one issue, namely the card".

As any good hitchikers guide to the galaxy fan will recall a similar fate befell the Goalafrinchams. They knew all about the potential of "fire" but could never decide on the colour.

This bit is good:

The independent assessors, whose work was overseen by the finance department, called on the minister to act immediately.

Well, he has, by setting up a committee to enquire as to why the other commmittee hasnt achieved it's objective, guided by an independant report into the failure of the first committee.

But it's ook because next year this committee will recomend an independant report to ascertain what it is that distinguishes an arse from an elbow.

Anyway, its only €9million, thats small fry for Cullen. wait till it gets to €30 million or so, then we'll start really thiniking about the colour of the card.

Wonder if those e-voting machines can be adapted to print them? No?

Red Alert

"Integrated" ticketing could be done with the current MCV system in the buses. The new ticket machines actually are fully equipped for ITSO smartcards to boot.

The problem is that the government departments love the actual 'awarding' of the contracts, and don't really like when the technology's all there already and the hard work just needs to be done.

antoinolachtnai

I think it's as much a commercial question as a technical question as to how to get it to work (i.e, who pays for the system, how does the revenue get divided).

spacetweek

antoinolachtnai wrote:

I think it's as much a commercial question as a technical question as to how to get it to work (i.e, who pays for the system, how does the revenue get divided).

TBH I think the commercial element was always the problem. As other people have pointed out, the techie side is easy-ish and there's off the shelf technology you could use anyway.

Trying to get unions which complain when a bus driver has to spend his lunchbreak parked outside a different chipper from last week to agree on single-fare zones and multimodal trips is your real problem.

antoinolachtnai

To be fair, I don't think that the union card has ever been pulled on this particular issue.

This is going off-topic, but transport HR issues are actually a lot more complicated than they appear from the outside. It is easy to present something as a storm in a teacup. It is really hard to run a bus service well in a big city. No doubt there is some nonsense going on out there, but my feeling is that there are legitimate problems.

parsi

SeanW wrote:

This isn't even integrated ticketing. It's a new payment system made out to look like "Integrated Ticketing."

REAL integration is like what happens in cities in Germany: where you buy tickets on a zonal basis, validate them (once) then make your journey on any pratical mode or combination of modes of public transport, bus, tram, U Bahn, S Bahn whatever, all on the same ticket.

They do this with plain paper tickets without even so much as a magnetic stripe.

And it works. Beautifully.

Yes but your average German will buy a ticket despite there not being physical barriers. And they back this up by stringent enforcement (it is a fair sight seeing a gaggle of inspectors descending on your u-bahn carriage) where if caught you have to pay. Full stop. No moaning to Josef Duffich or anything is accepted.

Integrated ticketing would be so much easier if you didn't have to have readers just issuing machines and visual checks could be performed during control phases. London has something similar with the bus pass - if you buy a combined bus/underground travel pass you only ever have to show it to the bus driver (who barely looks at it) so immediately they avoided the issue of needing appropritae readers on the bus.

paulm17781

antoinolachtnai wrote:

It is really hard to run a bus service well in a big city.

How come the buses in London (big city) work so well while the ones in Dublin (small city) don't?

markpb

paulm17781 wrote:

How come the buses in London (big city) work so well while the ones in Dublin (small city) don't?

Huge amouts of funding (compared to Dublin's paltry 23%), single transport authority that makes all decisions (as opposed to the 40+ in GDA who don't care about public transport), sensible mix of private and public operations (working together, not in competition like they are here), lots of decent bus lanes, bus only roads, bus priority measures (compared to our bits of white markings on the road) and, in the main, politicans stay out of it and let people who know what they're doing, do their jobs.

Chris_533976

Also you dont get a string of assholes who, taking the example of MacCurtain Street in Cork, blissfully use every ****ing inch of the bus lane as a carpark.

ALL of those cars should be clamped or towed.

Victor

spacetweek wrote:

Trying to get unions .... to agree on single-fare zones and multimodal trips is your real problem.

I don't think the unions will have a problem with this, it will make drivers lives easier if they only have to do superficial checks and deal with only one fare.

They may however have a problem with any privatision involved in parallel.

Victor

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqid=15629-qqqx=1.asp

Transport21 Fan

popebenny16 wrote:

As any good hitchikers guide to the galaxy fan will recall a similar fate befell the Goalafrinchams. They knew all about the potential of "fire" but could never decide on the colour.

Yes indeed! Perfect anaology. Douglas Adams should be read and retained like scripture.

Seaw W is spot on too. You can have integrated ticketing with piece of paper.

These are the same DoT who can't even come up with something as basic as a LU type transit map for Dublin showing all the rail. luas, QBC and Airport Connecting bus routes such as the No90 for commuters and tourists to use. Yet they waste millions and millions on superficial technological indulgences.

dam099

Transport21 Fan wrote:

These are the same DoT who can't even come up with something as basic as a LU type transit map for Dublin showing all the rail. luas, QBC and Airport Connecting bus routes such as the No90 for commuters and tourists to use. Yet they waste millions and millions on superficial technological indulgences.

Too true. The other night I was on the Dublin Bus website with my wife (who is Canadian) trying to figure out the best bus options from our house in Swords to various hospitals she is considering working in when we move back. She could not understand why we could not just put in our address and the destination address and get told what bus(es) to take and where to transfer if more than one is needed. Instead all you can do is put in Swords and get told what buses service that general area and forget about any assistance with working out what transfers you need to make.

RadarControl

Once again the government shows themselves as a bunch of wasters. Tfl has just signed an outline agreement with the train companies operating into London to implement Oyster (Integrated Ticketing). The downside for Tfl is they have to pay the train companies £20 million to help install the required equipment. Better System then we will ever have.

The Mayor of London Ken Livingstone today welcomed the outline agreement by all of the Capital's Train Operating Companies to implement Oyster pay as you go across their networks in Greater London.

The announcement by the Association of Train Operating Companies follows an offer from the Mayor made last May to provide £20m to help fund the provision and installation of smartcard readers, station equipment and back-office support systems.

Some of the train operating companies, such as Southern and South Eastern, have expressed reservations. Transport for London considers these to be unfounded, and is continuing to work through these with the Train Operators.

The acceptance of Oyster pay as you go will benefit tens of thousands of passengers who use overland rail services.

Mayor of London Ken Livingstone said: "I welcome the outline agreement made by all of London's Train Operating Companies to implement Oyster pay as you go.

"This is a step in the right direction, however there is some way to go before an agreement is reached.

"Transport for London will work with the companies over the next two months to try to resolve outstanding issues.

"I hope that we will be able to reach an agreement so that that we are able to extend the benefits that Oyster offers to all London travellers as soon as possible."

Oyster is a proven success, with more than 10 million smartcards issued since its launch in 2003.

Around 75 per cent of all journeys on London's buses and Tube networks are now paid by Oyster with only around five per cent paid in cash single fares.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/press-releases/press-releases-content.asp?prID=1051

dowlingm

dam099 wrote:

Too true. The other night I was on the Dublin Bus website with my wife (who is Canadian) trying to figure out the best bus options from our house in Swords to various hospitals she is considering working in when we move back. She could not understand why we could not just put in our address and the destination address and get told what bus(es) to take and where to transfer if more than one is needed.

Not every Canadian city does that - certainly not my infotechnically challenged transit provider. Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton and Mississauga seem to.

MarkoP11

Its not all rosy in London its taken several years of a fight to get the TOC's on the UK mainline to sign up

Croydon tramlink in London went to civil courts to fight it out with Tfl

Its all been about the money making sure no one looses revenue as a result of the lower integrated fares. Its the DoT's fault in Dublin but for a senior manager in any CIE company or of the RPA to publically criticize Cullen will result in a P45

You would be supprised how quickly it could be rolled out in Dublin, you could get integrated rail/luas tickets within days if the will was there, but it isn't

bk

This is not a technology problem. There are many off the shelf systems and all the buses new ticketing machines already compatible with ITSO smartcards, as are the LUAS. That just leaves the Dart and commuter rail to be upgraded, and that is fairly straightforward (I assume that the new DART gates are compatible with ITSO smartcard readers).

The problem is down to the RPA, CIE and DB not being able to agree on how it should be run and how they should share the revenue from it.

MarkoP11

bk wrote:

This is not a technology problem. There are many off the shelf systems and all the buses new ticketing machines already compatible with ITSO smartcards, as are the LUAS. That just leaves the Dart and commuter rail to be upgraded, and that is fairly straightforward (I assume that the new DART gates are compatible with ITSO smartcard readers).

They have smartcard readers and they are enabled and function. Further order is out for more machines. Scheidt-Bachmann supplied them and they are ITSO members. It doesn't go unnoticed that Oyster card in London is not ITSO well not yet

The problem is down to the RPA, CIE and DB not being able to agree on how it should be run and how they should share the revenue from it.

Afraid you have been drawn into the political excuse

1. Principle problem is who pays for the loss in revenue that all operators experience. DoT won't cough up. Dublin Bus stands to lose a lot of cash and given they are the second lowest subsidised city bus company in Europe (Belfast is in the lead) you can't blame them

2. The RPA where making the rules, but as a operator they where not independent which caused some problems

3. RPA/IE/DB already have revenue sharing agreements. The 90/91/92/Luas + Rail ticket is a prime example

The most important thing to note is to implement say single Red Cow Howth could be done in days with no additional hardware, the IE end is simple database change the exact same as adding another station into the system, trivial. RPA refused at there end.

Integrated tickets =/= Smartcard Ticketing