Is it an image thing?

Dragan

Hey guys,

Just a thought that has been going round in my head for a while now! Do you guys think the image of martial arts is changing in the public eye? Think back to when you were a kid, and Bruce Lee was king and kung-fu films were the best films around!

They always show our trusty hero taking out a room full of chaps in crisp fashion without so much as a scratch. A well timed roundhouse kick would seal the deal and everyone would smile. When I imagined myself doing martial arts I imagined myself dealing with a gang of crack heads Steven Segal style, without getting so much as a crease in my suit!!

Now that image in my mind has completely changed. I see Sprawl and Brawl, a well timed double leg and a submission or some GnP!

Without getting into a styles debate how many other people noticed this, as they advanced in various arts? The shiny image of the clean cut win was replaced by the thoughts of all the work you put into your art, of all the shots you take in sparring and the pain of those last few pushups, stretchs, cleans or whatever. When did the realisation hit home that you would never get that shiny victory that the big screen had promised you as a kid?

Finally, as MMA becomes bigger all the time and more and more people get to see that a fight is in fact a pretty ugly, scrappy and sometimes scary thing, and even the Hollywood tact has now reversed as fights become more gritty, more real so to speak in films ( I still remember seeing the end of Lethal Weapon and thinking - now THAT is a fight ) do you think the public are getting a better idea as to exactly what it is like?

Is the ideal of helping someone in need Jet Li style being replaced with the knowledge that if you wade in, you better be able to take your shots?

Are the glory days headed up by Bruce Lee over?

Millionaire

Thats a good post Dargan.

As a kid starting karate kickboxing, it was all Bruce Lee (this was1984 ish) not just teenagers like me...but many of the lads aged 22 23 etc (which seem real old to me then) were into Bruce....Bruce was the God!

Some of the lads (in their 20s) would train kickboxing with those Bruce Lee Kung Fu Pants and the Kung Fu slippers. Before class would start everyone would be there 30 mins earlier twirling Nanchakus, trying to look cool ! e.g Bruce

Even the MA mags, were full of stuff like Jeet Kune Do and Bruce. Mags would be passed around the club like the bible.

There was very little resources available then... like the net or boards.ie to get information...so we would all be waiting each month counting the days for Fighter mag to come out. so the lack of information, often made MA ledgends sound much bigger, e.g. Bruce.

People want to kick and move like Bruce, and manys a lad skipped about like Bruce when sparring too. (and this was full on sparring). People used to spend their time trying to learn Flying side kicks e.g. Bruce

Now its all changed really, and sure people think of UFC and that when they think of MA. Tons of info is available on the net on DVDs, on TV.

I was looking at MMA classes on the net, and I was trying to figure out what the hell are those little tight track suit tops MMA player wear that make them look like cyclists??? The image and all has changed.

I am sure of the kids today MMA is just as big a buzz, maybe even better, than Bruce was for us back in out day.

I am sure I can hear the younger generation snigger as they read this..."whats all this Bruce" BS??!!!??

But ya know, it was all we had back then (espcially down the country), Fighters Mag (and a few other smaller mags) was the only information channel we had. It was extremely extremely rare to see any sort of MA on TV (only 6 channels then).... so no wonder "Enter the Dragon" was watched 100s of times, and talked about non stop back in MA clubs around the country.

I guess kind of more innocent days back, and for me, yeah it was great fun!

Baggio...

Personally, I like the whole image change. When I started Shotokan many moons ago it was dominated by crumbly old men who were teaching an antiquated system. Now MMA has knocked that on the head, and is challenging the whole TMA belief system (only wished it happened years earlier).

Out with the old and in with the new....:D

Millionaire

Baggio... wrote:

crumbly old men who were teaching an antiquated system. Now MMA has knocked that on the head,

Out with the old and in with the new....:D

That reminds me of when I was in TKD in canada.. it was all Master Oh Jang this... Master Oh Jang superman that... Master Oh Jang can kill you with a glance..

when I finally got to see the Master Oh Jang... this wee tiny man...who was chain smoking fags one after the other (that alone was disappointing to me).

Some of these "masters" are great confidence tricksters!

Dragan

Millionaire wrote:

I was looking at MMA classes on the net, and I was trying to figure out what the hell are those little tight track suit tops MMA player wear that make them look like cyclists??? The image and all has changed

They are rash guards, where your rolling, depending on the surface you are on, you can get pretty nasty burns if you have no top on, or have a lose fitting top that can move around.

Millionaire

Dragan wrote:

They are rash guards, where your rolling, depending on the surface you are on, you can get pretty nasty burns if you have no top on, or have a lose fitting top that can move around.

Cheers for that! see... show's how little I know about the modern ways!

Have to admit.. I was never big on Ring MMA up until very recently(see older posts from me)... I have to confess.. I started sneak a look at the UFC, and the more I looked the more I started to get hooked, and I was mad last night there was none on TV!

LOL!! A man in change or what! Well I was 2/3 rds of the way there, only thing lacking in me is I have no ground game. Strikes & clinch I am fine.

Yes, back to OP... back in the "Bruce" era... many "Masters" hid behind stories and talk. There was plenty of places for people to hide out then.

However, Lee was the real deal... there is no doubt in my mind about that.

Boru.

I'm not entirely sure. In one aspect things have remained the same, the general public view MA as dangerous and barbaric. Bruce lee led to Kung Fu Killers, the eighties = Ninja assassins, now we have MMA = human cockfighting the most depraved entertrainement under the sun and RB = wanabee navy seals. MA hasn't changed in being misunderstood, just the art being currently meligned has..

On the other side within the MA community I have seen a decide departure form the spiritual aspects and benefits of the arts to a practical reality based focus. Each art is seemingly finding their own path in becoming more street savy. As much as I applaud this as a RB Instructor I worry about the moral decline somewhat...

Give it anohter decade, I'll give yiou my answer then.

Baggio...

Millionaire wrote:

Some of these "masters" are great confidence tricksters!

Absolutely!

At least things are finally changing.:)


Beware the masters "death touch".....;)

Mola.mola

Millionaire wrote:

Strikes & clinch I am fine.

oh really?

cmb.

interesting post - we have seen the end of the mystacism and romantisism of martial arts - for those who practice anyway - i cant speak for your casual martial arts movie watcher - some may think that those ufc guys are all well and good but jet lee could kick their asses but an informed opinion has changed what have been generally conservative views of the martial arts community - how many of us can recall years of matrial arts where katas were mearly performance pieces and focus was on the asthetic form of the body in manovers - for me, the concept of the ufc enthrawled me and like so many, introduced me to the concept of, and affectiveness of techniques and discplins, mosyt of which, i never heard of in years of martial arts training and the confirmed what i had suspected for some time, that the discipline of karate that i had taken for years was, in reality, almost worthless as an actual martial art (good job i enjoyed the sport as just that - but the achievement of having earned a dan seemed, well a little empty) - while i left that particualar discipline quite a few years ago, i was glad to hear, in dicsussion with a senior member not too long ago how it had evolved and areas such as correct strenght training, forus on aerobic & anaerobic fittness etc have been encorporated - lessons from the reality of martial arts being learnt - things i never heard of in the many years i prcticed - so yes, i feel the mystique of the martial arts and its death touches& ninjas etc have been exposed, and a good thing that is - imo

and yes - lee was a pioneer and jeet kune do - as he percieved it, was a forerunner for modern mma with his ideas of cross trainig and incorporating techniques has to be recognised as visonary at that time

Wes98

Well first of all Bruce Lee was the one and only, all the new guys (Tony Jaa and Jet Li) are great, but they will never replace Bruce!
I guess the main theme of the thread is that times are changing, and people too.
Heh, I remember when I was in secondary school, bout 4years ago.I used to get alot of abuse(The usual karate kid, bad impersonation of bruce Lee etc.), cause people knew I did MA.they never seen it as a real combative art.
These days its very different though.I find alot of people are very interested in MA as there understanding of it is better.They also seem to realise that MA is a VERY real combative art.:D
As for the one kick to the head Bruce Knockout....well we can always dream right?:D
I guess all of this progression is good, but what saddens me is how(in my opinion)we have somewhat degressed in the more philisophical and spirtual side of things.

Musashi

As for the one kick to the head Bruce Knockout....

So now it's the one kick anywhere crippler a la Fedor, Crocop, Nog, et al

Effectiveness has been the only criteria to judge many sports before now, no harm it's coming to MA. I still love to watch a good chop socky like, be it Bruce, Van Damme, Tony Jaa a lot lately and the new Jet Li should be Mega!:D

Black Swan

Anyone hear the taekwondo sport announcer for the 2004 Olympics? I thought the image he was projecting with his somewhat sensationalist drama put TKD in a bad light, more akin to a pub brawl than an Olympic sport.

pma-ire

On the reaction from people when they hear your doing a MA!!

I still get the same reaction that I've always got! The some people say "jees! i'd better be careful of you!!" (as if i'm gonna lump them one??). Then some take a bruce lee bouncing pose and say "cumon! i'd beat you no problems bhoy!!"

Then there are the ones that ask you a few interested questions and move on in the conversation. These are the ones I like to meet!!

yomchi

Then there are the ones that ask you a few interested questions and move on in the conversation. These are the ones I like to meet!!

So what kind of style do you do boy?

(said in a half arsed cork accent)

pma-ire

Jon wrote:

So what kind of style do you do boy?

(said in a half arsed cork accent)

I'm not telling ya feen!

It's a secret!!

I'd have to kill ya afterwards!!

(BTW we pronounce boy like bhoy!!)

Millionaire

Mola.mola wrote:

oh really?

Yes really....

so whats your point?

If you cannot add anything intelligent to a thread, Mola Mola,
except a scaristic unless comment like that, its best you do not post on here.
OK?

Mola.mola

sorry millionarie i'll make it up to you by buying your book. i hear it's great. my point was i'd sincerely doubt you've mastered the clinch. only one way to find out though....

Millionaire

i ve master nothing... its a life long journey! ; -)

I ll keep learning new MA things for life.

clinch is coming along very nicely. was doing an hour a day
of full on clinch sparring with hard knees until very recently. you got to train as close as possible to a real match. no light knees allowed!

(my training partner, a big sized thai has gone away to work... pro fight career he just retired from). Its one thing I have improved in the past 7 months. (makes up for my kicks disimproving due to weak knee problems).
Before I came here, this guy destroyed me. then one day testing me when the master was not here, he went full on knees and elbows at me, and I gave it back just the same. I was a bit pissed off, he tried that when the master was not here, but I did well, and earned the respect of the fighters.
(despite a cut head from an elbow!!!LOL!!!)

They sort of test ya a bit out here, and if you take it and give it back, you earn the respect and friendship.

this muay thai camp is famous for clinch work and famous for clinch abilites of its former world champs.

yes, lets have a clinch spar when I come back, I am sure I got a few tricks that I can show you.

then you can teach me some ground work, as I am very very weak in the ground.

Put it one way... since these guys are doing clinch up to 2 hours a day, I doubt there would be few people in ireland, who could match their skills in Thai clinch range. and I ll learn more here than in ireland...thats for sure.

pma-ire

Hey Ger!!

Whos that guy in the pic with your name??

And how much di you pay him!!

Mola.mola

Millionaire wrote:

i ve master nothing... its a life long journey! ; -)

well i can't show you any ground stuff but I'll show you some of my sumo clinch.